Moral/legal questions about neighbors...hypothetically

[Eja117]

Roy, we're gonna need ya in here.

Sooooo...the other week my neighbor's smoke detector alarms went off. This went on for quite a while till I arrived and there was a good handful of smoke in the house. Probably just cooked something too long. It had gone on long enough I thought "Geeze. Maybe they slipped and hit their head or something." They have two young kids. Everything turned out ok. She was just having a hard time turning off the alarms.  Ironically the second I went to stand on the chairs the alarms went off...of course.

Now that I look back at it I'm glad she answered when I called. Let's say she didn't....um...you take a quick look around, right?  What are the pros and cons of that? I mean what if I go in and find them naked smoking a bone?

See....this is why I should have their cell numbers.  But I think they'd probably lock the doors if they left the house. If it's locked and they aren't home and the alarms are going off for a while I guess you call 911.

Have any of you ever had an issue with this? It seems sorta lose/lose. Any of you fire fighters or know the legal precedent here. My neighbors are ok but a little private. She expressed some happiness that I arrived. 

[Chris]

I have no idea about the legality, but I think if you suspect something is wrong, and knock and there is no answer, you should call the police or fire department immediately.  Don't take it upon yourself.

[Eja117]

One of the only things in my head is they have to show damages to sue you....but I really don't want to go down that path. I'm on good enough terms with all my other neighbors I don't worry about this. I think I'd want them running into my house were the scenario reversed, but I need to put a tad bit o thought into this and am curious about other people's experiences

[Neurotic Guy]

Also not sure of the legality, but I believe ethics would dictate that if the situation is safe for you to enter, and you suspect someone is in there and hurt (you hear a child screaming, a person calling for help, see a body on the floor...) then you call 911, yell for another neighbor as back-up (if possible) and go in. 

If you can't see anyone from the windows or hear anyone and there is no response to your knock on the door, I'd call 911 and then keep looking in windows outside the house.

[Eja117]

Ethically I always think of the worst case scenario. My fear is I call 911 and they take 10 minutes to show up while my neighbor is bleeding to death or burning in the basement with the 6 month old next to her. I'm not sure I could live with myself knowing I was too cowardly to enter the house. Granted I'm not a paramedic, but still.  I'm glad this happened and she expressed happiness that I came.

[bfrombleacher]

Ethically, I see no harm. Golden rule (sadly underrated).

Legally, maybe bring more people in to help.

[SHAQATTACK]

Better safe than sorry . 

neighbor behind my current house had friends down for the weekend JUly 4th last year.  On their way out of the house , one of the cousins (whatever) flips his smoke b ut t off the porch into the bark/mulch .  It smoldered and eventually the porch /decking started to burn.  Everybody including me and the other houses had went down to the beach to enjoy the day.

across the street is a very nosey neighbor , but a nice guy, and he was the only one to see around to notice the gathering smoke. He went over to investigate , and found the front porch in falmes from underneath.

I would have called the fire dept....but That might have been too late... he saw the water hose hooked up and laying near by , we have alot of pressure.  So he was able to put the fire out and control it .  The damage was limited to the deck , but could have burnt the house down had the neighbor not noticed the smoke, after all there are alot of cook outs and on the4th of July .  He was nosey and daring and it paid off. 

My house might have been in danger had this house been in full flames.

The family is still giving him money and presents all the time for his help. 

 

[Chris]

The problem with just entering is that everyone has different judgement about what is cause for concern.  That is why I would say to always call in the professionals, unless you have pretty strong evidence that they are in immediate danger.

Chances are, if they are lying bleeding on the floor, either they will be calling for help...or there is nothing you will be able to do to help them, and could actually do more damage than you would by waiting for the professionals.

I think when you start feeling obliged to go in, when you think there is something wrong, then it does become a slippery slope.  There are people trained to deal with things like this...and these people also are there to be a buffer on a personal level, in case there isn't a REAL issue. 

[BUTerrier]

First, let me just say that I agree with everyone who says that you should call 911 if you think there's some issue. It's not like it's a false 911 call even if everything turns out OK; you had reason to believe there was a risk.

Second, from a legal perspective, it depends on what state you're in, but many states have what are colloquially referred to as "Good Samaritan" exceptions in their statutes and case law that prevent you from being sued if you do something like this, provided that you are doing what a reasonable person would do in the circumstances. The example they always gave in law school was "You're in a restaurant and the guy at the next table starts choking. You rush over, perform a textbook Heimlich maneuver, and expel the food lodged in his throat, but you accidentally crack his rib." Again, assuming you can show you knew how to do the Heimlich and you weren't just punching him in the stomach to try to force the food out, you'd be protected in a state with Good Samaritan laws. However, not every state has these exceptions, so you do need to make sure yours does.

[bdm860]

Better safe than sorry . 

neighbor behind my current house had friends down for the weekend JUly 4th last year.  On their way out of the house , one of the cousins (whatever) flips his smoke b ut t off the porch into the bark/mulch .  It smoldered and eventually the porch /decking started to burn.  Everybody including me and the other houses had went down to the beach to enjoy the day.

across the street is a very nosey neighbor , but a nice guy, and he was the only one to see around to notice the gathering smoke. He went over to investigate , and found the front porch in falmes from underneath.

I would have called the fire dept....but That might have been too late... he saw the water hose hooked up and laying near by , we have alot of pressure.  So he was able to put the fire out and control it .  The damage was limited to the deck , but could have burnt the house down had the neighbor not noticed the smoke, after all there are alot of cook outs and on the4th of July .  He was nosey and daring and it paid off. 

My house might have been in danger had this house been in full flames.

The family is still giving him money and presents all the time for his help. 

 

I don't think this is the best way of looking at it.

In this case it was cool, because the guy didn't go inside the house, he looked around outside, and saw the fire.  I don't think the vast majority of people are too offended by somebody coming onto their lawn.  Inside their house is a completely different story though.

And the "better safe than sorry" mentality is just too ambiguous as you can apply it to anything.

I hear the smoke detector going off at your house:

Should I knock on the door? Well you could be passed out, and waiting a minute to see if anybody comes could be the difference between life and death or a serious amount of damage.  Better safe than sorry.

Should I try to call you? Well the time it would take for me to get my phone and dial your number and let it ring 6 to 10 times could be the difference between life and death, better safe than sorry.

Should I call the authorities? Well the time it would take for them to get here could be the difference between life and death, better safe than sorry.

So some could argue anything short of barging in at the first appearance of something wrong is being better safe than sorry.  That doesn't really fly with me.

If you see something that could be wrong:
1. Reasonably investigate (call, knock on the door, listening, smelling, look around).

2.  Unless you observe something unquestionably serious (hearing cries for help, see flames, etc.) call the authorities and wait.  A smoke detector going off, no human response, dog barking, or any other minor irregularity isn't enough.

I would probably be upset if someone barged into my house and nothing was wrong.  I'm not gonna sue you, but it would probably strain our relationship and I'd expect you to pay for a new lock/window/door however you forced your way into my house.  (Though at the same time, I'd be grateful if you barged in and saved me )  The thing is 99.9% of the time it's going to be nothing, and that .1% when it is something 99% of the time it would be better to wait for the authorities.

(This assumes you're not close with the person, if you're close with the person it's different, but that's because it's not really barging in/trespassing.)

[Roy H.]

In terms of legality:

1.  In most jurisdictions, there is no duty to help.  You can't be sued if you choose to do nothing.  HOWEVER, in some jurisdictions if you *do* attempt to help, and you do it negligently, you can be sued.  Therefore, some rational people take the position that it's better to not get involved.  (Check your local laws in regard to good Samaritan laws).

2.  In terms of criminal or civil liability for trespass or something of that nature, you're correct that civil liability would generally require proof of actual damages.  Regarding criminal liability, you might be technically guilty of trespass if you entered somebody's home without permission, although I doubt most prosecutors would prosecute.  If they did, I think even fewer juries would convict.

My suggestion would be go to the neighbor's house and knock / call.  If there's no answer and you're seeing smoke, call 9/11, and ask for further direction.  Of course, at some point instincts kick in, but that's probably the most prudent course of action.

[Eja117]

Ok. New scenario.

Let's say I take my kid and another toddlerish kid out for pizza. The other kid observes some people hugging and rather loudly comments on some private behavior he observed his parents doing.  Um. Do I tell them? I mean I would DEFinitely want someone to tell me my kid did that. On the other hand I think keeping my mouth shut is a very underrated strategy here and I completely lacked the guts to make a peep on this.

What would you do? I mean unless they're someone you're really close with you keep yo mouth shut like a coward, right? 

[mgent]

Incomplete scenario.  You didn't tell us what the mom looks like.

[Eja117]

Incomplete scenario.  You didn't tell us what the mom looks like.

Above average. Dad looks like he can snap my neck by looking at me and that he did it in the past. But on the other hand I did take their kid out.

Know when to hold em.....know when to fold em. Know when to walk away and know when to run.

[indeedproceed]

Ok. New scenario.

Let's say I take my kid and another toddlerish kid out for pizza. The other kid observes some people hugging and rather loudly comments on some private behavior he observed his parents doing.  Um. Do I tell them? I mean I would DEFinitely want someone to tell me my kid did that. On the other hand I think keeping my mouth shut is a very underrated strategy here and I completely lacked the guts to make a peep on this.

What would you do? I mean unless they're someone you're really close with you keep yo mouth shut like a coward, right?

My fiance wife's job is to help kids who are victims of domestic abuse and sexual attacks. So she's pretty much 'the child whisperer' at this point. You would not believe the stuff kids just say to her in a casual setting, its crazy.

And something very much like this happened to us (I only say 'us' because I was there, but I had no part in this story). They were more acquaintances than friends, but she waited for a properly discrete time and mentioned it to the mother, with the proper, "Its no big deal, happens more often than you think, and kids get over it as long as you're honest and don't make a big deal out of it."

I did nothing, and if she had opted to also do nothing, I would've encouraged that. But that's me.