NBA 2 Random teams game (like the CBDraft games)

[bfrombleacher]

I really liked the CBDraft basketball talk. I tried this at the insidehoops forum but failed. Wanted a different perspective, ended up with ESPN lite-lite with all the LeBron-Kobe threads (much less biased though)

Anyway...

I kept generating random teams until I got roughly even teams (in my opinion anyway) and got these teams.

Suppose, like in the CB draft games, you have complete control of the coaching: the lineups (specialty lineups), minutes, how to use the players, matchups, tempo, whether or not your team runs in the break, how you use players on the defensive end...etc.

Which team wins?


Team A:
G/F Jones, James
G Williams, Deron
G Terry, Jason
G Robinson, Nate
G Murphy, Kevin
G Gordon, Ben
G Dooling, Keyon
F/C Collison, Nick
F/C Clark, Earl
F Harris, Tobias
F Griffin, Blake
F Boozer, Carlos
C Przybilla, Joel
C Haywood, Brendan
C Haddadi, Hamed


Team B:
PG Blake, Steve
G/F Hamilton, Richard
G/F Anderson, Alan
G Redick, J. J.
G Harden, James
G Crawford, Jamal
G Azubuike, Kelenna
F/C Johnson, Amir
F/C Hayes, Chuck
F/C Davis, Glen
F Türkoğlu, Hedo
F Smith, Josh
F Nicholson, Andrew
F Kleiza, Linas
C McGee, JaVale

[Roy H.]

I would imagine that Team A wins in a blowout.

[bfrombleacher]

I would imagine that Team A wins in a blowout.

Can they really stop J-Smoove at the 3? Or even Turkoglu?

Steve Blake is a bum now but I'd just play James Harden, Jamal Crawford, Rip Hamilton and JJ Redick for my backcourt. James Harden and Crawford can make plays.

[indeedproceed]

Both teams are pretty bad, but team A for sure. Team B has no answer for Deron/Griffin.

[action781]

That would be a very ugly game...

Team A has no starting shooting guard who can guard Harden nor any player who can guard Josh Smith.
2 of Team A's best 3 players play power forward.
Who starts for Team A at PF?

Team B has an awful starting point guard.
Brendan Haywood should be able to keep McGee outside of 8 feet from the hoop.
Team B only has 3 NBA starter-caliber players on the roster.

Ugly game but Team A is wayyy more talented.  They have the # 1, 2, and 5 most talented players in this game plus solid role players in Haywood, Gordon, and Terry.

[Who]

Team A
PG: Deron Williams, Ben Gordon, Jason Terry, Nate Robinson, Keyon Dooling
SG: Kevin Murphy
SF: Tobias Harris, James Jones
PF: Blake Griffin, Carlos Boozer, Earl Clark,
C:  Brendan Haywood, Nick Collison, Hamed Haddadi, Joel Pryzbilla


Team B
PG: Steve Blake, Jamal Crawford
SG: James Harden, JJ Redick, Rip Hamilton
SF: Hedo Turkoglu, Linas Kleiza, Alan Anderson, Kelenna Azubuike
PF: Josh Smith, Amir Johnson, Glen Davis, Chuck Hayes, Andrew Nicholson
C: JaVale McGee

Notes

Team A is overloaded with combo guards and has a defensively deficient backcourt as a result. Team B overloaded with forwards both at the quick forward and particularly at the big forward positions.

Team A definitely has an edge in star talent with Deron Williams and Blake Griffin vs James Harden and Josh Smith.

Matchups

Starters
PG: Deron Williams vs Steve Blake = advantage Team A
SG: Ben Gordon vs James Harden = neutral
SF: Tobias Harris vs Hedo Turkoglu = advantage Team B
PF: Blake Griffin vs Josh Smith = neutral
C:  Brendan Haywood vs JaVale McGee = neutral (McGee could take a leap next year though and give Team B the advantage here)

I would expect Team to invert the backcourt matchups defensively and stick Deron Williams on James Harden and Ben Gordon on Steve Blake.

Bench
PG: Jason Terry vs Jamal Crawford = advantage Team A
SG: Keyon Dooling vs JJ Redick = advantage Team B
SF: James Jones vs Linas Kleiza = advantage Team B
PF: Carlos Boozer vs Amir Johnson = advantage Team A
C:  Nick Collison vs Chuck Hayes = neutral

Reserves
PG: Nate Robinson vs (nobody) = advantage Team A
SG: Kevin Murphy vs Rip Hamilton = advantage Team B
SF: (nobody) vs Alan Anderson = advantage Team B
PF: Earl Clark vs Andrew Nicholson = neutral
C:  Hamed Haddadi vs Glen Davis = advantage Team B

Overall

That looks pretty even to me.

[Who]

On second thoughts, I think JJ Redick should start at PG instead of Steve Blake. The team has two ball-handling and playmaking wings to help him run the offense + Redick is a better scorer, playmaker (albeit not floor general) and defensive option (against Deron) than Steve Blake is anyway.

Starters
PG: Deron Williams vs JJ Redick = advantage Team A
SG: Ben Gordon vs James Harden = neutral
SF: Tobias Harris vs Hedo Turkoglu = advantage Team B
PF: Blake Griffin vs Josh Smith = neutral
C:  Brendan Haywood vs JaVale McGee = neutral

Bench
PG: Keyon Dooling vs Steve Blake = neutral
OG: Jason Terry vs Jamal Crawford = advantage Team A
SF: James Jones vs Linas Kleiza = advantage Team B
PF: Carlos Boozer vs Amir Johnson = advantage Team A
C:  Nick Collison vs Chuck Hayes = neutral

[Who]

I like the defensive potential of Team B's starting unit. It's not a high end defensive unit or anything but I like the way the pieces fit. The quickness and uber-athleticism of Josh Smith and JaVale McGee combined with very good size on the perimeter with Hedo, Redick (PG) and (solid size) Harden. The way they fit together will have them punching above their weight defensively.

Team A has the more knowledgeable Brendan Haywood but he is also slow and immobile and declining each passing season. Blake Griffin still hasn't learned to play defense. Tobias Harris learning his trade too. Ben Gordon forces Deron to defend the two which gives them a sub-par defensive backcourt.

Nick Collison will probably have the best impact defensively for Team A. Just his quickness, mobility and understanding of how to play team defense. That will be a major boost for them. He might struggle for playing time with the minutes squeeze between B.Griffin, C.Boozer and B.Haywood though.

[Who]

Starters
SF: Tobias Harris vs Hedo Turkoglu = advantage Team B
PF: Blake Griffin vs Josh Smith = neutral
C:  Brendan Haywood vs JaVale McGee = neutral

Bench
SF: James Jones vs Linas Kleiza = advantage Team B
PF: Carlos Boozer vs Amir Johnson = advantage Team A
C:  Nick Collison vs Chuck Hayes = neutral

Both teams have troubles with a lack of quality jump-shooting from their bigs in their starting unit.

Blake Griffin looks a good bet to fix his problem long term and may make good in-roads there by next-season. Plus, Team A has Carlos Boozer on the bench who is a very strong jump-shooting PF who can also address this problem.

Team A also has a power three in Tobias Harris who is more of an interior scorer (post ups, slasher, cuts) than a jump-shooting threat. But again, they can bring in James Jones off the bench to fix that and give them a lethal floor spacer at SF.

Team B lacks backup bigs with quality jumpers. Hedo Turkoglu is a very good shooting starting SF though and their backup combo forward Linas Kleiza is a quality jump-shooter too. Their only way to get extra shooting on the court at PF or C is to go small with Kleiza at power forward. He won't be able to matchup against Griffin or Boozer though. Have to use Kleiza against Nick Collison.

[bfrombleacher]

...
That looks pretty even to me.

My thoughts exactly. People see Deron Williams and instantly write the other team off...lost all my rep (the little I had) in insidehoops because of that I think.

I forgot to add, Hedo can also handle the ball. Even without a true point, the amount of quality pseudo-ballhandlers the have at the other positions is a huge advantage in terms of the lineups they can make.

[mgent]

...
That looks pretty even to me.

My thoughts exactly. People see Deron Williams and instantly write the other team off...lost all my rep (the little I had) in insidehoops because of that I think.

I forgot to add, Hedo can also handle the ball. Even without a true point, the amount of quality pseudo-ballhandlers the have at the other positions is a huge advantage in terms of the lineups they can make.

Team A's lack of an actual team doesn't mean team B has any sort of chance, no matter how big of an advantage they have in quantity of lineups; quality is way more important.

A is finishing games with Williams, Terry, Jones/Gordon, Griffin, and Boozer.  That is a lethal offensive unit with unreal spacing that prevents defenders from helping on Williams/Griffin/Boozer.  Their backcourt rotation absolutely decimates team B's, and they have 2 above average back up bigs, where B has none.

A single advantage at the 3 makes up for none of this.  Team A's role players give them a huge edge and we haven't even really gotten into the important stuff yet.  Team A has two top 10 players (arguably top 12-13 for Griffin), and B doesn't even have a top 25, nor any leadership whatsoever.

Not to mention, Williams and Griffin have an extremely efficient pick and roll as good as any in the real NBA.  As if any of this wasn't enough, I see Team B stuggling with a lack of penetration and no clear play-maker between Crawford/Harden/Turkoglu, causing Josh Smith to become way too comfortable with his much lower percentage tendencies (his jump shot game).

[Who]

A is finishing games with Williams, Terry, Jones/Gordon, Griffin, and Boozer.  That is a lethal offensive unit with unreal spacing that prevents defenders from helping on Williams/Griffin/Boozer. 

That is a mean offensive unit but it's very weak defensively.

They'll give opposing teams a lot of openings to attack them and concede a large number of high percentage shot attempts.

Particularly vulnerable (defensively) to the pick and roll game (with the exception of Nick Collison) which is Team B's bread and butter with Hedo, Harden and Redick. Jamal Crawford too. Elite athletic finishers in McGee and Josh Smith to punish bad interior defensive rotations.

[wdleehi]

Team A has the best two players.  They have plenty of secondary scorers to make team B pay if they double to much. 


Teams A lack of defense is not a big issue because team B does not have anyone that can really hurt them.  Their best weapons are secondary options at best.  And there is no great playmaker to make them go. 

And I agree with starting Boozer at C.  There isn't an offensive C that would kill them. 

[mgent]

A is finishing games with Williams, Terry, Jones/Gordon, Griffin, and Boozer.  That is a lethal offensive unit with unreal spacing that prevents defenders from helping on Williams/Griffin/Boozer. 

That is a mean offensive unit but it's very weak defensively.

They'll give opposing teams a lot of openings to attack them and concede a large number of high percentage shot attempts.

Particularly vulnerable (defensively) to the pick and roll game (with the exception of Nick Collison) which is Team B's bread and butter with Hedo, Harden and Redick. Jamal Crawford too. Elite athletic finishers in McGee and Josh Smith to punish bad interior defensive rotations.

Williams is an above average defender.  Jones and Boozer are average defenders (with Boozer much better at C).  Terry is below average, but Deron's size and strength allow him to match up with the better guard.  Griffin's defensive potential is out of this world, despite being not very good so far.

Couple this with two excellent protectors in Haywood and Collison, and a more than excellent combo in Dooling that can swap duties with Gordon, I don't think the defense is vulnerable unless Smith gets in that zone (and everybody is hitting shots for him).  They'd at least hold their own while the offense is going off.

No chance they give up more points than they score.

[Who]

I think Deron Williams and Blake Griffin is a terrific 1-2 punch to build around but I don't like the supporting cast. I think that will lead to that team punching well below it's weight.

It doesn't have quality starters at either wing position. Brendan Haywood is a solid but well below average starter who is fading fast. Their bench gives them a good boost with Boozer and Ben Gordon / Jason Terry who are sixth man of the year candidates.

However, between Blake Griffin (36-38mpg), Carlos Boozer (30mpg) and Brendan Haywood (20mpg) ... there is hardly any playing time left for Nick Collison. Only about 10mpg (if that). Neither Boozer (defensive liability) or Haywood (lacks speed/mobility, offensive talent, becoming more limited by the year) are ideal options alongside Blake Griffin. As a combination, they raise serious defensive issues.

Plus, the Deron + B.Gordon + J.Terry combination has a feel of too many cooks in the kitchen. I think they'll get in one another's way and underperform also. There are no quality backup wings. James Jones is serviceable though.

Overall, I just feel like this is a team that has a great foundation (Deron, B.Griffin) but it's lack of complementary pieces will have it punching far below it's weight (where it should be with top talent like Deron / B.Griffin).