Who's deeper: 10-11 or 12-13 team?

[CelticsFan9]

Remember the 2010 offseason?  The O'Neal brothers arrived, Delonte was given a second chance, and Ray and Paul and Doc all returned.  I thought that team was so deep there was no way we could lose.  Then, injuries happened...  and the season was lost after "The Trade."  On paper though, that was arguably the deepest roster the Celtics have had during this era.

This year's team seems deep on paper, too.  We lost lost Ray, but picked up some nice pieces via the Draft, free agency, and sign-and-trade.  I thought I would compare the two teams to determine which is deeper.

Here are the starters, bench, and reserves for both teams when fully healthy:

10-11:  S - Rondo   Allen   Pierce   Garnett   Perkins

B - Robinson   West   Daniels   Davis   S O'Neal

R - Bradley   Wafer   Harangody   J O'Neal   Erden

12-13:  S - Rondo   Bradley   Pierce   Bass   Garnett

B - Terry   Lee   Green   Sullinger   Wilcox

R - Dooling   Christmas(?)   Joseph(?)   Melo   Collins

Let's check out the matchups:

Rondo vs Rondo - This year's Rondo wins.  More mature, more confident in his shot, and most importantly, this is now his team.  Two years ago I think Pierce was still the guy.

Allen vs Bradley - I don't know about this one.  I'd have to see how Avery comes back from surgery, so for now this one goes to Ray.  He had a great shooting year, from three and overall.

Pierce vs Pierce - 10-11 Pierce takes this one.  He shot very well, and didn't have any knee issues like this year's Paul is likely to have.

Garnett vs Bass - Garnett wins this one easily.  While Bass should get better from last year, KG is just so dominant defensively that it's not close.

Perkins vs Garnett - Garnett wins again.  Perkins was coming off of knee surgery and looked a little out of shape.  I expect Kevin to play very well this year, probably getting another Allstar appearance.

Robinson vs Terry - I'm going with Terry.  Nate filled in admirably for Rondo while he was injured, but I hated watching him jack up threes with 15 seconds left on the shot clock.  Terry is a seasoned vet, who should be a strong candidate for sixth man of the year.

West vs Lee - Lee wins.  His youth, defense, and shooting should be huge for us this year.  Delonte played well, but unfortunately was only able to play 24 games.

Daniels vs Green - I give it to Green for now, but we'll have to see.  How he comes off this heart surgery is key.  We need him to produce while Pierce gets rest.

Davis vs Sullinger - As much as I dislike Big Baby, he clearly wins here.  The guy was a great help defender, and was able to score.  Sully is a rookie, and I think he will play a little in the regular season, but rarely in the playoffs.

S O'Neal vs Wilcox - Shaq, despite numerous injuries, wins.  When he played with the Big 4, we were nearly unstoppable.  He just couldn't hold up.  Wilcox will be solid, but not the presence Shaq was.

Bradley vs Dooling - Dooling wins.  Rookie Bradley was pretty bad, and Dooling's locker room presence is always helpful.

Wafer vs Christmas - I'm not sure if Dionte will be signed, but I think he wins.  Both are decent scorers, but Christmas is the better defender.

Harangody vs Joseph - Again, I don't know if Kris makes it, but he beats Luke.  Joseph is guy who just knows how to play, and I think he is better on both ends than Harangody.

J O'Neal vs Melo - Wow, Jermaine wins.  Melo is too raw, and JO, despite being constantly injured, is a better player.

Erden vs Collins - Semih wins.  I loved his play when he was here.  Jason is known as the "Dwight Stopper," but Erden is younger and better.

Overall, the 10-11 team won 7 matchups, compared to the 12-13 team's 8.

Thanks for reading, and please share your thoughts on all the matchups!

[bfrombleacher]

10-11 was better...in theory.

With Shaq there was no question that team was the best in the league. Behind him would have been Perk. JO would have played the 10 minutes a game he was supposed to.

But this year, apart from KG, everybody's pretty durable. We're at least 2 deep everywhere.

KG and Rondo's healths are key.

[Interceptor]

Then, injuries happened...  and the season was lost after "The Trade."

Season was lost because of Shaq going down, not the trade. If you think that Perkins would have stopped Miami, maybe you ought to look at what Perk did to them this year (spoilers: nothing).

[CelticsFan9]

Then, injuries happened...  and the season was lost after "The Trade."

Season was lost because of Shaq going down, not the trade. If you think that Perkins would have stopped Miami, maybe you ought to look at what Perk did to them this year (spoilers: nothing).

I'm not saying Perkins was the reason we lost to Miami.  It brought the team down, especially KG, Pierce, and Rondo.

I mentioned injuries in that very same quote.  It wasn't just Shaq, it was Rondo, Delonte, KG, JO, etc.

It's really unfortunate that the team couldn't stay healthy.  I love rooting for a team full of vets that are hungry for the chip!

[Interceptor]

I'm not saying Perkins was the reason we lost to Miami.  It brought the team down, especially KG, Pierce, and Rondo.

I mentioned injuries in that very same quote.  It wasn't just Shaq, it was Rondo, Delonte, KG, JO, etc.

Shaq was all that was needed; immovable and an easy two points whenever you gave him the ball. Don't buy that the trade brought the team down in a way that impacted their play, Rondo played two games with a broken arm, which ends that argument before it starts.

That being said, as deep as 2012-13 is looking to be, 2010-11 wins my vote. It's thinner at SF with only MD backing up PP, but mother of god do we have a lot of big men. Value of that is hard to overstate.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

You can not compare Erden to Collins unless it's on teams before (or after for E.) they played for Bos b/c this team seems to make lesser players look like world beaters! You know what, never mind that... I bet Collins has played better than Erden either way, so I don't see how you give Erdy the nod, unless you give it to him just b/c how he played with KG (Collins hasn't had that chance but he is still known as a defensive presence, RR should help his O')...

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm not saying Perkins was the reason we lost to Miami.  It brought the team down, especially KG, Pierce, and Rondo.

I mentioned injuries in that very same quote.  It wasn't just Shaq, it was Rondo, Delonte, KG, JO, etc.

Shaq was all that was needed; immovable and an easy two points whenever you gave him the ball. Don't buy that the trade brought the team down in a way that impacted their play, Rondo played two games with a broken arm, which ends that argument before it starts.

That being said, as deep as 2012-13 is looking to be, 2010-11 wins my vote. It's thinner at SF with only MD backing up PP, but mother of god do we have a lot of big men. Value of that is hard to overstate.

I want to agree that 10-11 was deeper... I'll have to see these guys play first because 12-13 has better players at some position than 10-11... I dunno, nice question though.

[Kuberski1]

This year's team is deeper, but 10-11 more talented in the top 5-6 players, which counts for more, especially in the POs.  A healthy Shaq would have given us the chip that year...I believe.

[Bingbangbarros]

When Shaq was healthy that 2010-2011 team went through a stretch where they were unstoppable offensively. The passing was great to watch and the offensive was just so efficient. They had open looks on every possession and they all shot high percentages that season. Everything appeared to be falling into place.  Its a shame the injuries took place and then the trade happened.

On paper this years team appears much deeper. I was never a fan of Nate. Daniels and Kristic were ok. Adding an aging Jason Terry off the bench is huge. Hopefully Lee will give you similiar shooting to Ray with better defense. Bradley turned into a player and then there is Jeff Green.

I do not blame Ainge for the trade as I believe Perk was solid but overrated and Green has a big upside. You won't see the same Jeff Green that was in OKC. Doc will get him to play within his game and to his strengths rather than the way OKC used him.

The main issues with this years team are obviously size/height up front and the aging of our main players.

[2short]

One thing about the current team's depth is the guys backing up our starters.  We could possibly see the start of season with our starting sf and sg healing.  If paul isn't 100% I'd let Green start and wait until paul can go.  Bradley isn't going to be ready so we'll be starting Lee or Terry? I'm not knocking the previous bench as each and every guy gave 100% and worked for every play.  I do think our upper bench guys are pretty good, we are deep to the end of bench this year.

[More Banners]

I'm calling trick question.

I think the top of the roster was better in 11, and the bench might be better in 13.

The call is really based on injuries.  Healthy, the 11 team was stacked and completely unstoppable in the half court, and played killer defense, too.  20 healthy minutes of Shaq plus healthy minutes from JO and Perk and they make a run at 72. 

But due to injury, that 2011 team wasn't deep enough.  Depth requires talent and availability, and we barely had bodies to put on the floor.

So I give the nod to the 2013 team for depth.  We have the best backup combo guard of the Rondo Era, the best slashers at each position of the Rondo era (Terry, Lee, Green, and Wilcox all strong slashers), a reasonably limited number of old timers in the rotation, and several players coming into their primes in the rotation (Rondo, Lee, Green, and Bass, a decent but not sensational 1-4 lineup of the future).

I like this team best.  Reminds me of '91.

[greenpride32]

It's not even close; 10-11 was much deeper than 12-13.  If not for injuries that was a title team.  You also had a younger Pierce and KG; and in regards to Rondo he's more or less on the same level of play between those years.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

It's not even close; 10-11 was much deeper than 12-13.  If not for injuries that was a title team.  You also had a younger Pierce and KG; and in regards to Rondo he's more or less on the same level of play between those years.

How isn't it close? We aren't saying which 5-6 players but the entire team... starting 5 with Shaq + half perk and a BBD is a better set of top heavy players but going player by player top down, I don't know... seems pretty close after you get past those guys!

Also, the only one in that first 6 that hasn't been replaced with equal/better talent is Shaq... our rookies haven't had a chance yet, so you got to wait on the Gody/Erden match-ups.

[Professor of Rondology]

I'm calling trick question.

I think the top of the roster was better in 11, and the bench might be better in 13.

The call is really based on injuries.

^That^
There are many categories in which to measure depth: within the starting lineup, the playoff rotation, 12-men deep, 15-men deep.  Add in the question of whether or not Shaq is counted as an impact player (which he was, very shortly) or non-factor (which he was, in the end), and this question is really impossible to answer.

I like our roster this year more, mostly because I don't think our major off-season additions will get hurt and miss the playoffs.  It's still a possibility, but not quite as big of a risk with Jet as it was with Shaq/JO.

Our starting lineup was better in 2010, but I'll take Jet-Lee-JG-Sully-Wilcox over Nate-Delonte-Quis-Baby-Shaq/JO any day of the week. 

Really, though, it all depends on whether you count Shaq's brilliance on the court with Rondo et al or if- like me- you focus more on his inability to get back on the court once he went down.

[Professor of Rondology]

in regards to Rondo he's more or less on the same level of play between those years.

Rondo was a borderline all-star in 2010.
In 2012, he is a borderline MVP candidate.

You, sir, are trippin.