Kris Joseph > Michael Pietrus

[Jon]

I still don't know why people want to get hyperbolic at this point in the summer. Kris Joseph is a late second round pick.  The odds are very much stacked against him that he'll even be in the league a year from now, let alone better than Pietrus, who is a former lottery pick who has been a solid rotation player for 10 years.

Why can't this just be, I like Kris Joseph?  Why do we need to leap to these comparisons based on a few summer league games?  Keep in mind, that in the '03 Summer League held in Bosotn (the same year Pietrus was drafted, though the Warriors weren't there), Donny Freakin' Marshall led the summer league in scoring with 20 ppg.  Three Boston studs also dominated action: Kedrick Brown with 17.2 ppg., Brandon Hunter with 16 ppg. and 8 rpg., and Marcus Banks with 15ppg and 6 apg.  

More at

http://www.nba.com/celtics/summerleague/03SL_LeagueLeaders.html


Maybe Joseph will be an exception and be a great role player or even more.  I certainly hope so.  But it's way too early to make these sorts of projections.  

[European NBA fan]

I like Joseph too and think he's worth keeping around. But yeah, we never would have gone after Pietrus if Green's heart issue didn't pop up. Pietrus was a nice cheap replacement for Green that luckily fell in our lap. With Green back, the need for Pietrus is diminished.

You are right about the lesser need for Pietrus, but he was not Green's replacement, that was Pavlovic. Pietrus was the best available player for the vet. min. after he was bought out, and we were lucky to get him.

He plays near elite one-on-one defense and has a good grasp of the Celtics team defense. I think that his concussion hurt his play in the latter part of the season.

I will not judge Joseph based on SL, though I believe he has game. But comparing him to a veteran like Pietrus just isn't right before he has played even one NBA game.

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't see why threads like this are annoying. It's expressing opinions about players - people think differently.

For example, many people thought Avery Bradley was a complete and "total" bust last year and even at the beginning of this year for God's sake. I thought from day one he had a very bright future.

After watching Gomes in Summer league I had no doubts that he would have a long NBA career. Same for Gerald Green - in time...

But I also thought Marcus Banks would become something if you gave him the reins...I never liked Giddens much.

I like E'tuan Moore, a lot. If I were an NBA GM I'd be all over him as a combo guard off my bench, even if a 3rd string combo guard. While I'm hopeful about JJJ - in time - I'm not as confident about him because of his mental make up.

Now to Joseph, after watching him over summer league, I'm fairly confident he is going to be a pleasant suprise in the NBA. Melo? I'm hopeful but think that one is going to take time.

Long term, Pietrus is already a known commodity. If Joseph pans out he has more overall potential than Pietrus - IMHO. Whether he pans out or not remains to be seen...

But with our depth at the 2 & 3, we might be better off, if Joseph doesn't make it, to sign Marquis as the 3rd string back up at SF and use our Bi annual on some other big man rather than on Pietrus...   

[Celts Fan 92]

Kris Joseph might be in Europe this time next year.

Threads like this are a bit annoying. We have minimal reason to expect anything from Joseph. Pietrus has contributed in the NBA for many years. The odds are Joseph never really becomes a serious contribute, though he possible become an end of the bench journeyman.

It is possible that he exceeds expectation, but college competition is a bunch of kids and the summer league is practically pickup basketball. NBA players will get exposed in NBA games because the competition is at such a high level. Then certain fans will compare the performance of players against the likes of Lebron to the performance of second round picks in summer league games against guys trying to get camp invites. Really?

Joseph is a great player. Pruitt was a great player. Moore is a great player. JR Giddens was a great player. I state this in the context of comparing them to billions of humans or all the division 1 players. That doesn't mean we can compare them to guys who can contribute at the NBA level.

Pietrus is too expensive for us and I prefer wasting an end of the bench roster spot on a young guy like Joseph on the cheap (and only partially guaranteed). This doesn't change the reality that Joseph can't carry Pietrus' jock.

here comes CelticsBlog bashin rookies again lol why u makin Pietrus seem like he's a star or even starter caliber at dis point in his career? he was a solid player off our bench last year but he was inconsistent, he's replaceable

[2short]

Well to me its numbers or dollars I should say.  We can't afford MP for what he is going to get from another team (see greg).  So Joseph offers us a younger healthier body who can run the floor and give us a few minutes.  With Lee signing and Green coming back I'm not sure how many minutes MP would have played.  I'd say we are better going with Kris and maybe keeping marquis for end of bench vet min as he could give us minutes at sf, sg and pg but also not play at all.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Kris Joseph might be in Europe this time next year.

Threads like this are a bit annoying. We have minimal reason to expect anything from Joseph. Pietrus has contributed in the NBA for many years. The odds are Joseph never really becomes a serious contribute, though he possible become an end of the bench journeyman.

It is possible that he exceeds expectation, but college competition is a bunch of kids and the summer league is practically pickup basketball. NBA players will get exposed in NBA games because the competition is at such a high level. Then certain fans will compare the performance of players against the likes of Lebron to the performance of second round picks in summer league games against guys trying to get camp invites. Really?

Joseph is a great player. Pruitt was a great player. Moore is a great player. JR Giddens was a great player. I state this in the context of comparing them to billions of humans or all the division 1 players. That doesn't mean we can compare them to guys who can contribute at the NBA level.

Pietrus is too expensive for us and I prefer wasting an end of the bench roster spot on a young guy like Joseph on the cheap (and only partially guaranteed). This doesn't change the reality that Joseph can't carry Pietrus' jock.

Yep

/thread

[Mr Green]

This thread is pointless, it's not as if we had a chance to pick between the two. Peaches was great last season but his price tag was too big to resign and he has gone now. Go easy on Joseph for now, he hasn't even played his first game yet and everyone has to start somewhere...

[mctyson]

Pietrus would be back on this team if we could afford him.  We can't.  End of story.

Kris Joseph is not better than Pietrus.  He hasn't even played a minute in the NBA yet.

[bfrombleacher]

Kris Joseph showed promise on the defensive end.

I love the guy but Pietrus is more of a sure thing.

[smokeablount]

I really think one of the main reasons we're not going to re-sign Pietrus is because of Kris Joseph.

There are other valid reasons you could point too; we have Lee, Jet and Bradley at the 2 and we have Pierce and Green at the 3, or that Pietrus just had another knee surgery, etc...

But I think it really comes down to the potential of Kris Joseph and I full expect him to make our roster this year and "possibly contribute.

Here's why, when you compare Pietrus and Joseph:

1. Both are long 6'6" to 6'7" players who could play a little of the 2 or the 3

2. Both have very strong defensive abilities

3. Both have "decent" three point shots

4. Joseph looks to be the better slasher and he seems to have a better all around game

5. Joseph also looks to be the better passer and with his attack the basket mentality he will eventually get to the rim much more often than Pietrus

Joseph is young so it will take him some time - but we have decent depth and can develop him.

I think that overall he is just a better long term "prospect" and if he pans out he will be yet "another" solid young rotation guy that can run with Rondo -

Melo, Sully, Bass, Green, Courtney Lee, Bradley...

I think we save that Bi annual for another big man  

i like him but i'm going to wait until he plays an nba game. it's tough to say he has a better all around game before he's played one nba game.  

i don't think he is better in terms of filling the role of a 3 point shooter/defender than pietrus, not this year at least.  pietrus was pretty bad last year but from 06 in golden state until 2011 in orlando, pietrus shot better from 3 than kris joseph has at any level while guarding way better players pretty well overall.

that said, if the post was called "i'd rather have joseph," i think i would agree, for all the other reasons.

[bfrombleacher]

Is there anything wrong with this assessment?:

Strengths:
May score very well
Can score without athleticism
Rebounds
Good defensive potential
Ball thief on the defensive end
Will not force the issue (this is almost certain because he's in the summer league where he needs to prove himself)
Will do other things if unable to score

Weaknesses:
Lack of elite athleticism
Whether offense/defense translates into the league are questionable
Jack of all trades, master of none (Jeff Green syndrome)

Potential? He can be anywhere between an above average starter to a solid role player. There's also an off chance of him being out of the league quickly.

[smokeablount]

Is there anything wrong with this assessment?:

Strengths:
May score very well
Can score without athleticism
Rebounds
Good defensive potential
Ball thief on the defensive end
Will not force the issue (this is almost certain because he's in the summer league where he needs to prove himself)
Will do other things if unable to score

Weaknesses:
Lack of elite athleticism
Whether offense/defense translates into the league are questionable
Jack of all trades, master of none (Jeff Green syndrome)

Potential? He can be anywhere between an above average starter to a solid role player. There's also an off chance of him being out of the league quickly.

I agree with most of it, except the part about him being an above average starter, because that makes him one of the top 14 small forwards in the league.

i can see him being a starter that boosts the team because he's a role player, like a thabo sefolosha or a bruce bowen (in role not in style), but I believe there will always be 14 better SFs in the NBA, pending a nuclear war or many locusts

[EDWARDO]

Two things:

1) there's a 75% chance KJ is out of the league in 3yrs. There's a very good chance this kid is Orien Green. At 51, I like him and it's a good pick. But that's the reality.

2) if you polled all 30 GMs on whether they would prefer MP or KJ for a 1yr deal with the exact same economics, it's 30-0 for Pietrus.

MP is a guy you can win with and a great teammate and locker room guy. He just needs to be your 10th guy, not your 6th guy. Very tough defender, a warrior. You love to have guys like that on your roster. He got hurt last year and wasn't the same after that, then got pushed way up the rotation by injuries and he himself wasn't 100%. Anyone honestly think KJ is ready to be the first swing man off the bench for a playoff team right now?? You are dreaming.

That 30-0 is unarguable, by the way. No way anyone takes KJ over MP for the coming season on even money.

[gar]

Two things:

1) there's a 75% chance KJ is out of the league in 3yrs. There's a very good chance this kid is Orien Green. At 51, I like him and it's a good pick. But that's the reality.

2) if you polled all 30 GMs on whether they would prefer MP or KJ for a 1yr deal with the exact same economics, it's 30-0 for Pietrus.

MP is a guy you can win with and a great teammate and locker room guy. He just needs to be your 10th guy, not your 6th guy. Very tough defender, a warrior. You love to have guys like that on your roster. He got hurt last year and wasn't the same after that, then got pushed way up the rotation by injuries and he himself wasn't 100%. Anyone honestly think KJ is ready to be the first swing man off the bench for a playoff team right now?? You are dreaming.

That 30-0 is unarguable, by the way. No way anyone takes KJ over MP for the coming season on even money.

There is no guarantee Pietrus will be healthy at the start of the season if at all. Luckily Danny is starting to look beyond the big 3. Joseph is a very low cost piece that could pay dividends in a year or two. Huge upside considering his overall abilities and when he was selected. How people can write off the #1 scorer on the #1 team in college basketball for most of the season is beyond me.

[EDWARDO]

No one writing him off. Im hopeful. We all are. But MP is the better asset for this year. But 30 out of 30 GMs would take MP for THIS YEAR on even money.