How important was Ray?

[Eja117]

It just occurred to me that I don't think a group of fans ever got so worked up about a 4th or 5th most important player to a team's run leaving as this Ray Allen thing. Would the Bulls have gotten so upset about Toni Kukoc or Steve Kerr leaving, cause that's basically what's happening

Not sure if you are clear with your comments, eja.

So are you saying, (and pls correct me if I'm wrong), that Ray Allen was the 4th or 5th most important player on the team during BOS's run the last 5 yrs?

If so, then pls start another thread with this topic - because I'd love to further debate that and not deflect this thread.

It's been a long 5 years. He was more important in some years that in others. But I don't see him as a Big 3 member because Rondo was more important and better all along. This year Avery Bradley was. Ray doesn't like it, but there's a reason Ray was dangled and not KG, which is that Ray was far more replaceable.

[Lightskinsmurf]

He would have been an important bench guy if he came back. Still not more important than Rondo KG Pierce or AB that's for sure.

[CelticG1]

It just occurred to me that I don't think a group of fans ever got so worked up about a 4th or 5th most important player to a team's run leaving as this Ray Allen thing. Would the Bulls have gotten so upset about Toni Kukoc or Steve Kerr leaving, cause that's basically what's happening

Not sure if you are clear with your comments, eja.

So are you saying, (and pls correct me if I'm wrong), that Ray Allen was the 4th or 5th most important player on the team during BOS's run the last 5 yrs?

If so, then pls start another thread with this topic - because I'd love to further debate that and not deflect this thread.

It's been a long 5 years. He was more important in some years that in others. But I don't see him as a Big 3 member because Rondo was more important and better all along. This year Avery Bradley was. Ray doesn't like it, but there's a reason Ray was dangled and not KG, which is that Ray was far more replaceable.

Ray was dangled because of his contract. If he had a 20+ mil contract it wouldn't have been as easy to dangle him.

Even Pierce was dangled this year and he has what 2-30 mil left?

Ray should know the business side of.things and its odd that someone like him would take something like that personal when he is a 37 year old vet.

At the end of the Celtics were professional and made business decisions where Ray took thinks personal which is why he bounced and went to Miami.

You'd expect that out of a guy like baby, howard, bynum etc  but not out of someone like ray

[AshyLarry]

Ray Allen is really butthurt about the situation, and his aging. Denial about how good he is when it really comes down to it. I didn't know Ray had that big of an ego, but he'll fit just fine in Miami I suppose.

[Eja117]

It just occurred to me that I don't think a group of fans ever got so worked up about a 4th or 5th most important player to a team's run leaving as this Ray Allen thing. Would the Bulls have gotten so upset about Toni Kukoc or Steve Kerr leaving, cause that's basically what's happening

Not sure if you are clear with your comments, eja.

So are you saying, (and pls correct me if I'm wrong), that Ray Allen was the 4th or 5th most important player on the team during BOS's run the last 5 yrs?

If so, then pls start another thread with this topic - because I'd love to further debate that and not deflect this thread.

It's been a long 5 years. He was more important in some years that in others. But I don't see him as a Big 3 member because Rondo was more important and better all along. This year Avery Bradley was. Ray doesn't like it, but there's a reason Ray was dangled and not KG, which is that Ray was far more replaceable.

Ray was dangled because of his contract. If he had a 20+ mil contract it wouldn't have been as easy to dangle him.

Even Pierce was dangled this year and he has what 2-30 mil left?

Ray should know the business side of.things and its odd that someone like him would take something like that personal when he is a 37 year old vet.

At the end of the Celtics were professional and made business decisions where Ray took thinks personal which is why he bounced and went to Miami.

You'd expect that out of a guy like baby, howard, bynum etc  but not out of someone like ray

Rondo has an affordable contract and Danny only dangled him for very good players. Everyone is available at all times

[TitleMaster]

Ray Allen is really butthurt about the situation, and his aging. Denial about how good he is when it really comes down to it. I didn't know Ray had that big of an ego, but he'll fit just fine in Miami I suppose.

Well, by going to Miami, he's also admitting (though not openly) that he's aging. Miami will have him play Robert Horry in Q4, with LeBron setting up every one of those plays with a kick out.

All and all, I think Ray's tired of Boston expecting him to be Horry one day but then, Big Game James another. Allen has a much easier time just sticking with a simple routine. As a 37 year old, he was done as a Big Three, and now, needs to finish out his career as Big Shot Bob.

[clover]

It just occurred to me that I don't think a group of fans ever got so worked up about a 4th or 5th most important player to a team's run leaving as this Ray Allen thing. Would the Bulls have gotten so upset about Toni Kukoc or Steve Kerr leaving, cause that's basically what's happening

Not sure if you are clear with your comments, eja.

So are you saying, (and pls correct me if I'm wrong), that Ray Allen was the 4th or 5th most important player on the team during BOS's run the last 5 yrs?

If so, then pls start another thread with this topic - because I'd love to further debate that and not deflect this thread.

It's been a long 5 years. He was more important in some years that in others. But I don't see him as a Big 3 member because Rondo was more important and better all along. This year Avery Bradley was. Ray doesn't like it, but there's a reason Ray was dangled and not KG, which is that Ray was far more replaceable.

You're right.  Ray still didn't want to expand it to a 'big four' to include Rondo--and he himself wasn't one of their 'big four' last year as it was.

[MBunge]

Ray Allen is really butthurt about the situation, and his aging. Denial about how good he is when it really comes down to it. I didn't know Ray had that big of an ego, but he'll fit just fine in Miami I suppose.

Well, by going to Miami, he's also admitting (though not openly) that he's aging.

You know he's aging.
I know he's aging.
Does Ray?  All the evidence, including what Ray has publicly stated, indicates that he left because he didn't want to play behind Bradley and thinks he's going to have a bigger role in Miami.

Mike

[wahz]

As far as why the fan base is upset even though his importance was waning: isn't it because he just broke up the big three?

 Look we have lived and died with these guys for 5 years. And though there was talk about breaking up along the way, the window got extended and here they were 5 years later still playing. But his decision to leave broke them up and ADDITIONALLY he goes to the team that knocked them out.

I posted some things on another thread from the Seattle blogs and newspapers when he was here in Seattle. Some folks were thinking that there had not been controversy in Seattle with him which is funny to folks paying attention here. All was not well with his team attitude even back in 2005. Lots of people wanted to trade him for young players as he frequently questioned who was getting shots and questioned the coaches.

I have some hope him leaving will make us better. But I am not confident its a sure thing and he went to the biggest foe right now. Some good memories have been dahsed a bit as well

[Celtics4ever]

He did spread the floor and was a credible defemder at times.   But him being hurt really cost us vs. MIA at times this year his body would not obey his mind and the man he was guarding had a layup line to the hoop.  Even on rotations he could not pick them up against the HEAT this year.

[wdleehi]

The 4th best player going from the team that was close to the team that beat them is important. 




Ray had a skill set that has not been replaced. 



Yes, the Celtics can more on and be successful this season.


But losing Ray to the Heat hurts.

[clover]

Clearly not nearly as important as he thought he was.

They had to carry him like a deadweight through the first two rounds of the playoffs the one year they won it all.

[clover]

As far as why the fan base is upset even though his importance was waning: isn't it because he just broke up the big three?

 Look we have lived and died with these guys for 5 years. And though there was talk about breaking up along the way, the window got extended and here they were 5 years later still playing. But his decision to leave broke them up and ADDITIONALLY he goes to the team that knocked them out.

I posted some things on another thread from the Seattle blogs and newspapers when he was here in Seattle. Some folks were thinking that there had not been controversy in Seattle with him which is funny to folks paying attention here. All was not well with his team attitude even back in 2005. Lots of people wanted to trade him for young players as he frequently questioned who was getting shots and questioned the coaches.

I have some hope him leaving will make us better. But I am not confident its a sure thing and he went to the biggest foe right now. Some good memories have been dahsed a bit as well

I'd say it was more that he waged a media whisper campaign against Doc, Danny and Rondo on his way out, while revealing his delusional and petty resentments against such things as Bradley's play, Rondo's intellect, KG's value and contract length, etc., etc..

We also learned of late that he was long the one Celtic to most regularly and vocally speak to the press, though often off record.  The press always rewards its sources, so no wonder we heard five nonstop years about his consummate professionalism--despite his backstabbing his teammates to that very same press corps!

[bdm860]

I always viewed the Celtics as more of an ensemble cast.

More like the '04 Pistons than any of the Bulls teams.

Who was the 4th or 5th best player on that Pistons team?

Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince.  I think losing anyone of those 5 players would hurt the team and upset the fan base and greatly hurt the teams chances to win (I think it softened the blow that Ben Wallace left for more money, and had never really signed a big contract in his career, and the Bulls/Pistons weren't rivals at the time). 

Different from the Bulls where it was:
Jordan, then a notch below him Pippen, and then everybody else below that.  Where if the Bulls lost Rodman or Kukoc or Harper or Longley or Kerr, it would be a lot less upsetting and wouldn't hurt the teams chances as much because Jordan and Pippen shouldered so much of the load.

Because the Celtics are viewed by many as a "team" and preached ubuntu, that's why it's so upsetting to lose Ray.  If the team was more superstar driven, like Jordan's Bulls or the current Heat, it wouldn't be as big of a deal I think.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I can't speak to for people but I will say what it looks like most are saying throughout CB... the majority of the anger in Ray leaving is not b/c he left or b/c of the end of the "Big 3" but all because of where he went. I mean, seems like the majority, either accepted he was going to leave or wanted him to (trade or on his own). I don't see many people upset that he is gone (I know there is some but not a lot). Had he gone to any team besides Mia or the Fakers, we probably would have had one/two threads, wishing him well and thanking him for the time spent helping the team.