Courtney Lee wants to taste playoffs, sees that with Celtics

[Jon]

It does make you wonder a little why the C's didn't up their offer a little more for Ray if they're potentially going to go through all this trouble to get Lee (who very well may end up starting the season at the SG spot).  

Now I do think Ray is mostly to blame given that Boston's two year deal would've given him more money than the 3 year deal that Miami did give him.  However, considering they may have to give up a first round pick or more to get Lee, you have to wonder whether it would have been worth it to give Ray a 1-2 million more per year over 2 years or an option for a third year at 3-4 million dollars.  

The extra money or third year really wouldn't have impacted anything given that KG, Bass, and Green are all on the books for three year or more.  

I don't know if that would have made a difference for Ray, but if it had, it would've made things simpler now.  

[LooseCannon]

I don't see him in general as a chucker, but he's playing for his job in these summer league games, so why pass it for someone else to score and take your job, instead of scoring yourself?

Seems like a bad idea when the coach preaches playing within the offense and avoiding trying to be a hero.

[get_banners]

It does make you wonder a little why the C's didn't up their offer a little more for Ray if they're potentially going to go through all this trouble to get Lee (who very well may end up starting the season at the SG spot).  

Now I do think Ray is mostly to blame given that Boston's two year deal would've given him more money than the 3 year deal that Miami did give him.  However, considering they may have to give up a first round pick or more to get Lee, you have to wonder whether it would have been worth it to give Ray a 1-2 million more per year over 2 years or an option for a third year at 3-4 million dollars.  

The extra money or third year really wouldn't have impacted anything given that KG, Bass, and Green are all on the books for three year or more.  

I don't know if that would have made a difference for Ray, but if it had, it would've made things simpler now.  

doubt we'd give up a 1st...more likely a player like dooling. he's not going back to houston, so whatever they get is a free gain for them. basically, though, being that other teams do have some money, the only way lee comes here is if he really wants to, because he can sign with anyone else for more money (outside of a S&T with us).

[esel1000]

It does make you wonder a little why the C's didn't up their offer a little more for Ray if they're potentially going to go through all this trouble to get Lee (who very well may end up starting the season at the SG spot).  

Now I do think Ray is mostly to blame given that Boston's two year deal would've given him more money than the 3 year deal that Miami did give him.  However, considering they may have to give up a first round pick or more to get Lee, you have to wonder whether it would have been worth it to give Ray a 1-2 million more per year over 2 years or an option for a third year at 3-4 million dollars.  

The extra money or third year really wouldn't have impacted anything given that KG, Bass, and Green are all on the books for three year or more.  

I don't know if that would have made a difference for Ray, but if it had, it would've made things simpler now.  

I think its worth it, he obviously isnt Ray but his numbers are impressive and hes only 26 (or something like that). He'd be a good piece in a team thats contending but in mid transition from old to young

[j804]

It does make you wonder a little why the C's didn't up their offer a little more for Ray if they're potentially going to go through all this trouble to get Lee (who very well may end up starting the season at the SG spot).  

Now I do think Ray is mostly to blame given that Boston's two year deal would've given him more money than the 3 year deal that Miami did give him.  However, considering they may have to give up a first round pick or more to get Lee, you have to wonder whether it would have been worth it to give Ray a 1-2 million more per year over 2 years or an option for a third year at 3-4 million dollars.  

The extra money or third year really wouldn't have impacted anything given that KG, Bass, and Green are all on the books for three year or more.  

I don't know if that would have made a difference for Ray, but if it had, it would've made things simpler now.  

all indications are it had nothing to do with money, Ray was probably set on Miami since we heard the rumblings of him going there during the All Star break

[stes]

I'm not sure that we have Sasha's early bird rights, because he was released in the middle of the 2010-2011 season.  But it's moot in terms of a sign-and-trade, due to the changing of the base-year compensation rule.  Essentially, we can only count up to a 20% raise of the traded player's contract as the value of the contract we're trading, or half the new deal, whichever is more.  Even signing Sasha to a ridiculous $5 mil deal only lets us use $2.5 mil for trading purposes.

Accordingly, unless Lee is a lot cheaper than we think, Dooling makes the most sense, because a 20% raise for him takes his contract near $2.7 million, which allows us to bring back almost $3.5 million.

I'm not sure about Sasha, either. Actually, I think you're right about his situation.
But when it comes to Dooling, I think we have his bird rights, since we simply aquired him from Bucks using our TE from Daniels' trade. So we should be able to give him any number needed to match Lee's desired new contract, but I hope it's less then $5M.

[Jon]

It does make you wonder a little why the C's didn't up their offer a little more for Ray if they're potentially going to go through all this trouble to get Lee (who very well may end up starting the season at the SG spot).  

Now I do think Ray is mostly to blame given that Boston's two year deal would've given him more money than the 3 year deal that Miami did give him.  However, considering they may have to give up a first round pick or more to get Lee, you have to wonder whether it would have been worth it to give Ray a 1-2 million more per year over 2 years or an option for a third year at 3-4 million dollars.  

The extra money or third year really wouldn't have impacted anything given that KG, Bass, and Green are all on the books for three year or more.  

I don't know if that would have made a difference for Ray, but if it had, it would've made things simpler now.  

doubt we'd give up a 1st...more likely a player like dooling. he's not going back to houston, so whatever they get is a free gain for them. basically, though, being that other teams do have some money, the only way lee comes here is if he really wants to, because he can sign with anyone else for more money (outside of a S&T with us).

I hope so.  But the problem is that Lee wants in terms of salary, Houston is going to have to take back from us.  

There's really no reason for them to take Dooling from us.  If they want him, they can just sign him.  They're not going to want to pay him the 4-5 million dollars Lee is likely going to want.  And if they do agree to pay that, they're going to want compensation for doing that.  

So either way we're likely going to have to give up something that we probably don't want to.  

And to esel1000, I agree that Lee is worth it given the position we're in.  My point was simply that we could've potentially avoided all of this had we perhaps pushed a little harder for Ray.

And to j804, I realize that it obviously didn't all have to do with money, but there was some talk he would've stayed for a 3 year 27 million dollar deal (triple what Miami offered).  I wouldn't have gave him that much.  But I would've upped the offer to 2 years 14 million with a player option for a third year at 4 million.

[Vegas Green]

Everything I have read is that next year's draft class is one of the worst in years.  No real impact players and not even a lot of players that will be part of a team's rotation, especially once you get past the top 10 picks, so giving up a first round or even Charlotte's second round pick next year would be no big deal to me in order to get Lee.

[Jon]

Despite the first round pick issue, we're still going to have to get Houston to take back as much salary as we agree to give Courtney Lee.  That might not prove an easy task. 

[Chris]

Despite the first round pick issue, we're still going to have to get Houston to take back as much salary as we agree to give Courtney Lee.  That might not prove an easy task. 

Why?  If we are giving them a pick, that will make it worth it.  We can also send $3 million cash to offset the salary.

[Jon]

Despite the first round pick issue, we're still going to have to get Houston to take back as much salary as we agree to give Courtney Lee.  That might not prove an easy task.  

Why?  If we are giving them a pick, that will make it worth it.  We can also send $3 million cash to offset the salary.

Assuming that Wyc and Co. are willing to throw in 3 million, I think it could work.  But this goes back to my post above.  If we're going to pay 3 million to Houston and 4-5 million to Lee, shouldn't we have just upped the offered to Ray to 2 years 14 or 15 million and see if we could've overwhelmed him into staying.  It may not have worked, but it would've been simpler than this and not required giving up any assets. 

I just don't know if Houston is going to want a late first rounder in a weak draft to take back 3-5 million dollars of salary of players they may not want (such as Keyon Dooling signed and traded to that salary as some have suggested).  

If we're willing to offset the salary, that could work.  I certainly hope it does.  

[Brendan]

Not sure Dooling can only be signed for $2.7m - haven't seen that, but have seen his cap hold is closer to $4m.

Let's assume talent wise BOS is willing to trade its 2013 1st round pick for Lee (likely around the 25th pick.) They would still have CHA 2nd round pick (probably comprable talent, but much cheaper than the 25th pick) and their own pick.

So what's the cost of getting Lee? Assume he wants MLE money, about $5m.

Williams, Moore, Dooling at $2.5m get you there. If Houston is OK using a roster spot on Dooling, you send the difference between $2.5m and the vet min. Williams and Moore are expendable talent (no cost.) So it costs you something like a late first round pick and $1m. Plus you have to spend the money on Lee. I think that's reasonable.

Danny has some leverage with Moorey too: he can work out a S&T with Dallas for Terry than MLE Lee. So I don't think he should pay too much, but he should also not mess around too long and lose Lee.

That would leave BAE for Wilcox, Steis, or another big, which they should be able to find an OK 2nd string guy with.

[Roy H.]

Despite the first round pick issue, we're still going to have to get Houston to take back as much salary as we agree to give Courtney Lee.  That might not prove an easy task. 

Why?  If we are giving them a pick, that will make it worth it.  We can also send $3 million cash to offset the salary.

Assuming that Wyc and Co. are willing to throw in 3 million, I think it could work. 

I just don't know if Houston is going to want a late first rounder in a weak draft to take back 3-5 million dollars of salary of players they may not want (such as Keyon Dooling signed and traded to that salary as some have suggested). 

If we're willing to offset the salary, that could work.  I certainly hope it does. 

Houston can end up with money in its pocket.

Send Moore (non-guaranteed, meaning he can be cut without penalty), Williams (ditto), Dooling (S&T for 3 years; $2.5 in first year, two non-guaranteed years), $3 million

In that deal, Houston takes on Dooling's $2.5 million contract, but gets $3 million to pay it.  They'll also have a nice trade chip next off-season with a non-guaranteed deal to send out. 

Under trade rules, that package brings back up to $5.35 million in salary for Lee.

[Jon]

I certainly hope you guys are right and I think that certainly is within Boston's best interest to do so. 

However, I still go back to my point above.  If we're going to pay essentially 8 million dollars for Lee this year (5 million in salary and 3 million to Houston) and give up a first round pick, I wonder why Danny didn't up his offer to Ray to 7 or 8 million a year. 

It may not have been enough to keep him, but maybe it would've. 

Again, a minor quibble, I still want Lee and certainly would be willing to give up a first rounder in a weak draft to make it happen. 

[Brendan]

Despite the first round pick issue, we're still going to have to get Houston to take back as much salary as we agree to give Courtney Lee.  That might not prove an easy task. 

Why?  If we are giving them a pick, that will make it worth it.  We can also send $3 million cash to offset the salary.

Assuming that Wyc and Co. are willing to throw in 3 million, I think it could work. 

I just don't know if Houston is going to want a late first rounder in a weak draft to take back 3-5 million dollars of salary of players they may not want (such as Keyon Dooling signed and traded to that salary as some have suggested). 

If we're willing to offset the salary, that could work.  I certainly hope it does. 

Well Williams and Moore cost nothing. Dooling would have to be about $2.5m, but even his marginal cost is not that. Houston is going to have to have 13 guys on the roster, and they have to hit a salary minimum anyways, so they may be OK paying Dooling $2.5m, or maybe $2.0 million to fill out there roster. (Heck they may even WANT that salary as matching salary for future trades.)

Moorey has paid millions in the past for draft picks, so our first next year & Dooling at $2.5m (but zero marginal cost) for Lee, might even be better than it needs to be.

I think Danny could get this done quickly if he wanted, but its his last bullet so he's probably better off waiting, since Lee may be the fourth guard in a three guard rotation and doesn't provide the size or strength you'd like to see at SF wing spot to get minutes there. Both GMs would probably rather let things play out a bit and see where the numbers fall before they pull the trigger.