Camby and Lee in a sign and trade?

[saltlover]

Something like this could work:

Dooling (S&T for ~$2.7mil)
Moore
Williams
One of Pietrus/Daniels/Pavlovic (S&T for ~$1.6 mil)
$3 mil cash
2013 1st round pick

for

Lee and Camby (S&T for combined $7.6 mil)

Moore and Williams are both non-guaranteed, so the Rockets could release either or both and not have to pay them (or much, at least.)  The $3 million goes to cover the salaries of Dooling and the other vet, so the Rockets would pay about $1.3 million for those two roster spots, which is cheaper than signing two veterans.  And they get a 1st rounder for two players they don't want.  So it makes sense for them.  (Perhaps a second-rounder would also work -- it's debatable if the C's 2013 1st rounder will be more or less  valuable than their Bobcats 2nd rounder.)  Dooling gets paid double the vet min in this deal, so it works for him.  The other vet gets paid $250k more than otherwise (and gets a contract at all.)

I know people like throwing 3J into this deal, but his contract is guaranteed, and so is not as desirable as salary-filler as Moore and Williams, who can just be released if the Rockets don't like them.  And he gets paid less than the non-Dooling vet, which would mean we could only bring back about $6.9 mil in salaries, which could mean that either Lee or Camby get a more attractive offer from somewhere else.  He really only works if the Rockets actually want him for the purpose of keeping him -- which could be true, but they just had three mid-1st round picks, so probably is not.

Just can't see us getting both of those guys for that money.  In fact if the Twolves don't get Batum most people think they will go hard after Lee who they've tried to get in the past which will only raise is price.  He's a UFA and can sign with whoever offers him the best deal...  

Well, I do think it's likely the Wolves get Batum, since Indiana probably isn't matching Hibbert, meaning the Blazers won't match Batum.

Regardless, this proposal pushes our 2012-2013 salary to around $73.8 million, according to my estimates (including the Stiemsma offer sheet, even if it seems not likely that he'll stay.)  I'm probably off by a few hundred thousand one way or the other, since we don't know how the Bass and KG deals are structured, but rumors are we're interested in getting both Lee and Camby.  With the semi-hard cap at the apron potentially as low as $74.3 million, we probably don't have much room to offer any more than a combined $7.6 million to those two.  Depending what Camby's looking for (probably $3-3.5 mil) more of the $7.6 could certainly go to Lee.

[Brendan]

Cap hold fro Steisma doesn't count against Apron.

I had them at about 67m with JJJ, Moore, and Williams, but without any cap holds. Since sending out Moore and Williams clears 1.5m, they could take back about $8m.

Yes they may get some relief from the structure of KG, Terry, Bass, & Green (as well as the structure of Camby & Lee deals), but they also may have some additional costs not reported (unlikely bonuses, benefits, etc.) They could also S&T for Terry with Dallas instead of using MLE. Use MLE on Lee. He may like a make good contract with a contender.

He played his best with ORL in his rookie year - getting on a defensive oriented team, where he has a PG creating open looks for corner threes and fast break buckets, might raise his profile and market value. Given AB is out for start of season BOS presents a nice opportunity for a one year deal, like Posey signed in 2008.

Update: also in a S&T for Camby if he's only playing two more years, they can give him a retirement contract, that pays him a third year. Won't matter for cap purposes, might be useful for trade purposes, and raises the value of his deal. It's what they did for Sheed.

[Prof. Clutch]

A sign and trade for BOTH Camby and Lee would be amazing but most likely impossible.  From P Flanns article today:

The Celtics don’t have much to offer – draft picks can not be traded for 30 days after signing their contracts -- but they do have Moore and Williams on nonguaranteed deals, as well as last year’s first-round pick, JaJuan Johnson. They also have what should be a valuable second-round pick that in 2013 that belonged to the Bobcats and was received from Oklahoma City via the Green trade. Future draft picks are worth zero dollars in trade economics but can be used as sweeteners. Finally, they could also bundle one of their other remaining free agents in a deal if those players were amenable.

By staying under the luxury tax, the Celtics have more flexibility on trades and would be able to bring back as much as 150 percent of their outgoing value. For example, if they came up with $2.7 million in outgoing contracts, they could work out a deal with someone like Lee that would start at over $4 million annually and the Rockets would get a nice little $1.3 million trade exception out of the deal.

They also retain Bird rights on Nenad Krstic, who spent last season with CSKA Moscow. Overseas reports that Krstic may not return to Russia, but it’s unclear whether he wants to get back into the NBA. One thing the Celtics can’t do is use Krstic in a sign-and-trade. He’s not eligible because he wasn’t on their roster last season.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/paul-flannery/2012/07/08/courting-courtney-lee-and-whats-next-celti

So realistically our most tradable assets in a sign and trade would be:
JaJuan Johnson $1,120,440
Sean Williams $915,000 (non-guaranteed until Aug 1st)
E'Twaun Moore $762,195 (non-guaranteed until July 22nd)
2013 2nd Round Pick (via CHA)

According to reports Camby is looking for something along the lines of the tax payer MLE ($3 mil) and Lee is looking for something in the area of the full MLE ($5 mil.)  So the Celtics might have the pieces to interest Houston in a trade but there would need to be legit interest from Camby/Lee and then we'd only have the assets to get one of them.

[Brendan]

A sign and trade for BOTH Camby and Lee would be amazing but most likely impossible.  From P Flanns article today:

The Celtics don’t have much to offer – draft picks can not be traded for 30 days after signing their contracts -- but they do have Moore and Williams on nonguaranteed deals, as well as last year’s first-round pick, JaJuan Johnson. They also have what should be a valuable second-round pick that in 2013 that belonged to the Bobcats and was received from Oklahoma City via the Green trade. Future draft picks are worth zero dollars in trade economics but can be used as sweeteners. Finally, they could also bundle one of their other remaining free agents in a deal if those players were amenable.

By staying under the luxury tax, the Celtics have more flexibility on trades and would be able to bring back as much as 150 percent of their outgoing value. For example, if they came up with $2.7 million in outgoing contracts, they could work out a deal with someone like Lee that would start at over $4 million annually and the Rockets would get a nice little $1.3 million trade exception out of the deal.

They also retain Bird rights on Nenad Krstic, who spent last season with CSKA Moscow. Overseas reports that Krstic may not return to Russia, but it’s unclear whether he wants to get back into the NBA. One thing the Celtics can’t do is use Krstic in a sign-and-trade. He’s not eligible because he wasn’t on their roster last season.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/paul-flannery/2012/07/08/courting-courtney-lee-and-whats-next-celti

So realistically our most tradable assets in a sign and trade would be:
JaJuan Johnson $1,120,440
Sean Williams $915,000 (non-guaranteed until Aug 1st)
E'Twaun Moore $762,195 (non-guaranteed until July 22nd)
2013 2nd Round Pick (via CHA)

According to reports Camby is looking for something along the lines of the tax payer MLE ($3 mil) and Lee is looking for something in the area of the full MLE ($5 mil.)  So the Celtics might have the pieces to interest Houston in a trade but there would need to be legit interest from Camby/Lee and then we'd only have the assets to get one of them.

Sign and trade for JET instead of using MLE. Send Dooling on a one year $4m deal, with $3m in cash and next year's second round pick and maybe a future second round pick. You can take back $5.1m in salary there. Mavericks also get a $1.1m trade exception, but small trade exceptions aren't that useful IMO.

Send Houston JJJ, Williams, Moore for Camby in S&T, that's $2.8m going out, enough to sign Camby to $3.5m deal. Add in next years draft pick (late pick, crappy draft.)

Use the MLE on Lee or Mayo.

Use the BAE and non-bird right on Wilcox and Pietrus.


Rotation (10 guys):

KG / Camby / Wilcox
Bass
Pierce / Green
Lee / AB
Rondo / JET

Reserves: Sullinger and Pietrus
Not dressed: Vet minimum PG
NBA-DL: Melo and Joseph

I'm penciling in AB for limited role, but you can always limit Jet or Lee if he comes back healthy and quickly, or just play four guards.

Between KG / Wilcox and Green - you don't have to use Sullinger at PF very much and you have Pietrus as reserve with size to help at the wing (replaces Daniels & Sasha.)

Melo and Joeseph fill out rest of roster in NBA DL, plus a vet minimum PG. Send Melo and Joeseph to the NBADL.

That would put them right at the apron (back of the envelope.)

[Prof. Clutch]

Sign and trade for JET instead of using MLE. Send Dooling on a one year $4m deal, with $3m in cash and next year's second round pick and maybe a future second round pick. You can take back $5.1m in salary there. Mavericks also get a $1.1m trade exception, but small trade exceptions aren't that useful IMO.

Send Houston JJJ, Williams, Moore for Camby in S&T, that's $2.8m going out, enough to sign Camby to $3.5m deal. Add in next years draft pick (late pick, crappy draft.)

Use the MLE on Lee or Mayo.

Use the BAE and non-bird right on Wilcox and Pietrus.


Rotation (10 guys):

KG / Camby / Wilcox
Bass
Pierce / Green
Lee / AB
Rondo / JET

Reserves: Sullinger and Pietrus
Not dressed: Vet minimum PG
NBA-DL: Melo and Joseph

I'm penciling in AB for limited role, but you can always limit Jet or Lee if he comes back healthy and quickly, or just play four guards.

Between KG / Wilcox and Green - you don't have to use Sullinger at PF very much and you have Pietrus as reserve with size to help at the wing (replaces Daniels & Sasha.)

Melo and Joeseph fill out rest of roster in NBA DL, plus a vet minimum PG. Send Melo and Joeseph to the NBADL.

That would put them right at the apron (back of the envelope.)

Right on.  TP.  I think your post goes to show just how creative Danny will have to get in order to fill out the the rest of the roster.  It's going to take some good luck and a lot of maneuvering to make it all work.

[Brendan]

...

Right on.  TP.  I think your post goes to show just how creative Danny will have to get in order to fill out the the rest of the roster.  It's going to take some good luck and a lot of maneuvering to make it all work.

I should add its a long shot - but my point is its certainly do-able under the CBA.

[Cman]

...

Right on.  TP.  I think your post goes to show just how creative Danny will have to get in order to fill out the the rest of the roster.  It's going to take some good luck and a lot of maneuvering to make it all work.

I should add its a long shot - but my point is its certainly do-able under the CBA.

... and add that there are a couple other big assumptions: that Camby and Lee would agree to the S&Ts (ie: for the amount of money and to play for the destination team), and that there are not other teams out there that could "outbid" the Cs for the right to engage in a S&T with Houston.

Again, it is a long shot. A very very long shot. But, yes, doable.

[Prof. Clutch]

... and add that there are a couple other big assumptions: that Camby and Lee would agree to the S&Ts (ie: for the amount of money and to play for the destination team), and that there are not other teams out there that could "outbid" the Cs for the right to engage in a S&T with Houston.

Again, it is a long shot. A very very long shot. But, yes, doable.

Yup, however I've read that Camby reportedly has the Celtics on his short list of teams and is looking for something in the $3 mil range.  No idea if the interest in Lee is mutual but they have definitely been trying to recruit him (as evidenced by Doc going out to meet him.)  Lee is apparently looking for a deal in the $5 mil range.

[saltlover]

A sign and trade for BOTH Camby and Lee would be amazing but most likely impossible.  From P Flanns article today:

The Celtics don’t have much to offer – draft picks can not be traded for 30 days after signing their contracts -- but they do have Moore and Williams on nonguaranteed deals, as well as last year’s first-round pick, JaJuan Johnson. They also have what should be a valuable second-round pick that in 2013 that belonged to the Bobcats and was received from Oklahoma City via the Green trade. Future draft picks are worth zero dollars in trade economics but can be used as sweeteners. Finally, they could also bundle one of their other remaining free agents in a deal if those players were amenable.

By staying under the luxury tax, the Celtics have more flexibility on trades and would be able to bring back as much as 150 percent of their outgoing value. For example, if they came up with $2.7 million in outgoing contracts, they could work out a deal with someone like Lee that would start at over $4 million annually and the Rockets would get a nice little $1.3 million trade exception out of the deal.

They also retain Bird rights on Nenad Krstic, who spent last season with CSKA Moscow. Overseas reports that Krstic may not return to Russia, but it’s unclear whether he wants to get back into the NBA. One thing the Celtics can’t do is use Krstic in a sign-and-trade. He’s not eligible because he wasn’t on their roster last season.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/paul-flannery/2012/07/08/courting-courtney-lee-and-whats-next-celti

So realistically our most tradable assets in a sign and trade would be:
JaJuan Johnson $1,120,440
Sean Williams $915,000 (non-guaranteed until Aug 1st)
E'Twaun Moore $762,195 (non-guaranteed until July 22nd)
2013 2nd Round Pick (via CHA)

According to reports Camby is looking for something along the lines of the tax payer MLE ($3 mil) and Lee is looking for something in the area of the full MLE ($5 mil.)  So the Celtics might have the pieces to interest Houston in a trade but there would need to be legit interest from Camby/Lee and then we'd only have the assets to get one of them.

Sign and trade for JET instead of using MLE. Send Dooling on a one year $4m deal, with $3m in cash and next year's second round pick and maybe a future second round pick. You can take back $5.1m in salary there. Mavericks also get a $1.1m trade exception, but small trade exceptions aren't that useful IMO.

Send Houston JJJ, Williams, Moore for Camby in S&T, that's $2.8m going out, enough to sign Camby to $3.5m deal. Add in next years draft pick (late pick, crappy draft.)

Use the MLE on Lee or Mayo.

Use the BAE and non-bird right on Wilcox and Pietrus.


Rotation (10 guys):

KG / Camby / Wilcox
Bass
Pierce / Green
Lee / AB
Rondo / JET

Reserves: Sullinger and Pietrus
Not dressed: Vet minimum PG
NBA-DL: Melo and Joseph

I'm penciling in AB for limited role, but you can always limit Jet or Lee if he comes back healthy and quickly, or just play four guards.

Between KG / Wilcox and Green - you don't have to use Sullinger at PF very much and you have Pietrus as reserve with size to help at the wing (replaces Daniels & Sasha.)

Melo and Joeseph fill out rest of roster in NBA DL, plus a vet minimum PG. Send Melo and Joeseph to the NBADL.

That would put them right at the apron (back of the envelope.)

The most we can S&T Dooling for is $2,695,680, which is 120% of his contract last year.  Per Larry Coon:

"If a team is over the cap and re-signs its Larry Bird or Early Bird free agent with a raise greater than 20%, in order to trade the player in a sign-and-trade arrangement, then the player's outgoing salary for trade purposes is either his previous salary or 50% of his new salary, whichever is greater."  Accordingly, Dooling and Terry's salaries don't match up.

[TripleOT]

I like the idea of JJJ along with the non-guaranteed deals of Moore and Williams, and either a first or the Charlotte second for Lee.  Pay Lee 4 years, $18m. 

[vjcsmoke]

Would love to get both camby and lee.  camby would fill the pj brown role for us and give garnett much needed breathers.  plus we would have the option to play two 7 footers at times for max defense.

If we can't obtain camby, i'd love for the celtics to go hard after varejao.  He is energetic, pesky, a top notch rebounder, and adds defensive presence as a big.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1250361-nba-trade-rumors-2012-is-anderson-varejao-a-good-fit-in-beantown

[Bombastic Jones]

camby agreed to sign with the knicks last wednesday ...

he is not an option