Beasley's Suns Contract Sets the Market Value for Green

[jgod213]

So what does this Suns lineup look like at this point with Nash gone, Gragic & Beasley in, and potentially Hill following Nash to LA?

PG - Dragic/Marshall/Brooks
SG - Dudley/ Childress
SF - Beasley
PF - Morris/ Warrick
C  - Gortat/Lopez

That is a dicey second unit.  Looks like the suns will continue to be active throughout FA because that lineup is not going to get it done for a full season.

I really hope they do not use Beasley as a SF. He is a train wreck there.

Especially so in a limited lineup like that.

Yeah i mean i suppose they could do what Houston did and use the 2 PG backcourt with Dragic & either Marshall or Brooks, which would free up Dudley to play the 3 and Beas to play the 4, but that lineup would be an absolute siv defensively.

They need to make a run at a sg.  Delfino, Danny Green??

[Who]

So what does this Suns lineup look like at this point with Nash gone, Gragic & Beasley in, and potentially Hill following Nash to LA?

PG - Dragic/Marshall/Brooks
SG - Dudley/ Childress
SF - Beasley
PF - Morris/ Warrick
C  - Gortat/Lopez

That is a dicey second unit.  Looks like the suns will continue to be active throughout FA because that lineup is not going to get it done for a full season.

I really hope they do not use Beasley as a SF. He is a train wreck there.

Especially so in a limited lineup like that.

Yeah i mean i suppose they could do what Houston did and use the 2 PG backcourt with Dragic & either Marshall or Brooks, which would free up Dudley to play the 3 and Beas to play the 4, but that lineup would be an absolute siv defensively.

They need to make a run at a sg.  Delfino, Danny Green??

Yeah, they need a two guard. Badly.

That position was a disaster for them last year. Probably cost them 5-7 wins. Just from not having an effective role player(s) there. They were a .500 team. Those extra wins where they difference between being a playoff team and not. Very sloppy roster-building.

If they are trying to win-now and it appears they are, they need to sign a pair of SGs. Starter and backup.

[celtsfan84]

I consider Turiaf a disappointment. I thought he had/has a lot more ability than he has shown in the NBA. He never reached it.

Maybe that has nothing to do with the heart condition. Maybe it does.

Turiaf doesn't set my mind at ease though.  

Fair enough but that has nothing to do with his heart at all though.  That's totally fine.

Yeah, Ronny Turiaf was a 2nd Round pick who has lasted 7 years in the NBA thus far.  Not many 2nd Round picks last 7 years.  I'd say that Turiaf is a good news scenario.

He was the 37th pick in 2005.  For comparison, the 37th pick in 2004 (Antonio Burks) played in 28 games and is out of the league.  The 37th pick in 2006 (Bobby Jones) played in 91 games and is out of the league.

Turiaf is still playing.  Only 9 of the 29 other picks in the 2005 2nd Round can say the same (and that was a good year for the 2nd Round).

[LooseCannon]

I am open to the interpretation that Beasley is the more talented player but Green is the much better fit for the Celtics, especially when it comes to things such as team chemistry.

[RJ87]

Any heart surgery is serious for a person.  Of course.  I am just wondering why you assume it would make him worse at basketball?

Heart surgery and being a professional athlete ... the two together worries me.

They need to be at their absolute best physically to fulfill their career. Can Jeff Green be his absolute best? Or will be an 8/10 physically instead of a 10/10? Will the injury effect his mentality on the court? Will he (even more) passive than before? Will he be comfortable pushing his body when he is tired through a long schedule? Through injuries?

It's not that I assume Jeff Green will be worse, it's that I don't know. He may be able to (1) resume his career and not miss a beat, or, (2) he may come back and play at a lower level. There is a risk there. It's not like he was a sure thing (prospect) before the heart-surgery either.

What I am uncomfortable with is the risk/reward of his contract demands. I want a one-year contract or a much lower multi-year deal (than he would've gotten pre-heart surgery) to balance out that increased risk. 

It seems that you're concern is more of his ability to deal with the mental aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how Jeff will react - that's the only aspect I wouldn't trust. I 100% believe his heart is fine and there will be no ill effects. You just have to hope he trusts his body, but you can say that for ALL injuries. KG and his knee for example, he may never admit it but I suspect a lot of his limitations during the 09-10 season were just as mental as it was physical. I hope Jeff, being a lot younger, can bounce back quicker.

It is things like this that puts him into the "prove it" contact position.


The heart issue, whether or not it can reoccur, is there and will effect his value around the league.

The heart issue will not reoccur - its not that type of injury. If that was an issue, he would not be cleared to play. Simple as that. Working in the medical field, I'd trust a player coming back from a heart procedure such as Jeff's before I trust a player coming back from a knee or ankle surgery.

[wdleehi]

Any heart surgery is serious for a person.  Of course.  I am just wondering why you assume it would make him worse at basketball?

Heart surgery and being a professional athlete ... the two together worries me.

They need to be at their absolute best physically to fulfill their career. Can Jeff Green be his absolute best? Or will be an 8/10 physically instead of a 10/10? Will the injury effect his mentality on the court? Will he (even more) passive than before? Will he be comfortable pushing his body when he is tired through a long schedule? Through injuries?

It's not that I assume Jeff Green will be worse, it's that I don't know. He may be able to (1) resume his career and not miss a beat, or, (2) he may come back and play at a lower level. There is a risk there. It's not like he was a sure thing (prospect) before the heart-surgery either.

What I am uncomfortable with is the risk/reward of his contract demands. I want a one-year contract or a much lower multi-year deal (than he would've gotten pre-heart surgery) to balance out that increased risk. 

It seems that you're concern is more of his ability to deal with the mental aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how Jeff will react - that's the only aspect I wouldn't trust. I 100% believe his heart is fine and there will be no ill effects. You just have to hope he trusts his body, but you can say that for ALL injuries. KG and his knee for example, he may never admit it but I suspect a lot of his limitations during the 09-10 season were just as mental as it was physical. I hope Jeff, being a lot younger, can bounce back quicker.

It is things like this that puts him into the "prove it" contact position.


The heart issue, whether or not it can reoccur, is there and will effect his value around the league.

The heart issue will not reoccur - its not that type of injury. If that was an issue, he would not be cleared to play. Simple as that. Working in the medical field, I'd trust a player coming back from a heart procedure such as Jeff's before I trust a player coming back from a knee or ankle surgery.

It is not so much what the medical community thinks, it is about what NBA teams think.


They listen to their medical staff, but I don't see any team offering big money and long years to a guy coming off a heart condition. 

[Lucky17]

Where's all this cap room coming from for Phoenix?

Don't they still have a cap hold on Nash? They've committed something like $26-$30 million in the first years alone in their offers to Gordon, Dragic, and Beasley.

[RJ87]

Any heart surgery is serious for a person.  Of course.  I am just wondering why you assume it would make him worse at basketball?

Heart surgery and being a professional athlete ... the two together worries me.

They need to be at their absolute best physically to fulfill their career. Can Jeff Green be his absolute best? Or will be an 8/10 physically instead of a 10/10? Will the injury effect his mentality on the court? Will he (even more) passive than before? Will he be comfortable pushing his body when he is tired through a long schedule? Through injuries?

It's not that I assume Jeff Green will be worse, it's that I don't know. He may be able to (1) resume his career and not miss a beat, or, (2) he may come back and play at a lower level. There is a risk there. It's not like he was a sure thing (prospect) before the heart-surgery either.

What I am uncomfortable with is the risk/reward of his contract demands. I want a one-year contract or a much lower multi-year deal (than he would've gotten pre-heart surgery) to balance out that increased risk. 

It seems that you're concern is more of his ability to deal with the mental aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how Jeff will react - that's the only aspect I wouldn't trust. I 100% believe his heart is fine and there will be no ill effects. You just have to hope he trusts his body, but you can say that for ALL injuries. KG and his knee for example, he may never admit it but I suspect a lot of his limitations during the 09-10 season were just as mental as it was physical. I hope Jeff, being a lot younger, can bounce back quicker.

It is things like this that puts him into the "prove it" contact position.


The heart issue, whether or not it can reoccur, is there and will effect his value around the league.

The heart issue will not reoccur - its not that type of injury. If that was an issue, he would not be cleared to play. Simple as that. Working in the medical field, I'd trust a player coming back from a heart procedure such as Jeff's before I trust a player coming back from a knee or ankle surgery.

It is not so much what the medical community thinks, it is about what NBA teams think.


They listen to their medical staff, but I don't see any team offering big money and long years to a guy coming off a heart condition. 

Clearly, the NBA market is unpredictable right now (Jeremy Lin has an offer for $30 million frickin dollars over 4 years - at this time last year, he was fighting for a roster spot), so who knows where Jeff's contract is going to end up. My stance is that the misconception that his heart issue is still a risk and will hurt his play is just that - a misconception.

[jdub1660]

anything above 7 per year starting out would be a waste of cap space, roster spot, and luxury tax for Green.

He has potential. He's still proven nothing.

I'd be all for a 4-5 year deal with options that starts off at 5mil and progressively increases to 9
5 year deal - (1st)5mil, (2nd)6.8, (3rd)8.9, (4th)9.5(team opt)
(5th)10.9(player opt)
And even include incentive bonuses for production and starting role/minutes in year 3.

[wdleehi]

Any heart surgery is serious for a person.  Of course.  I am just wondering why you assume it would make him worse at basketball?

Heart surgery and being a professional athlete ... the two together worries me.

They need to be at their absolute best physically to fulfill their career. Can Jeff Green be his absolute best? Or will be an 8/10 physically instead of a 10/10? Will the injury effect his mentality on the court? Will he (even more) passive than before? Will he be comfortable pushing his body when he is tired through a long schedule? Through injuries?

It's not that I assume Jeff Green will be worse, it's that I don't know. He may be able to (1) resume his career and not miss a beat, or, (2) he may come back and play at a lower level. There is a risk there. It's not like he was a sure thing (prospect) before the heart-surgery either.

What I am uncomfortable with is the risk/reward of his contract demands. I want a one-year contract or a much lower multi-year deal (than he would've gotten pre-heart surgery) to balance out that increased risk. 

It seems that you're concern is more of his ability to deal with the mental aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how Jeff will react - that's the only aspect I wouldn't trust. I 100% believe his heart is fine and there will be no ill effects. You just have to hope he trusts his body, but you can say that for ALL injuries. KG and his knee for example, he may never admit it but I suspect a lot of his limitations during the 09-10 season were just as mental as it was physical. I hope Jeff, being a lot younger, can bounce back quicker.

It is things like this that puts him into the "prove it" contact position.


The heart issue, whether or not it can reoccur, is there and will effect his value around the league.

The heart issue will not reoccur - its not that type of injury. If that was an issue, he would not be cleared to play. Simple as that. Working in the medical field, I'd trust a player coming back from a heart procedure such as Jeff's before I trust a player coming back from a knee or ankle surgery.

It is not so much what the medical community thinks, it is about what NBA teams think.


They listen to their medical staff, but I don't see any team offering big money and long years to a guy coming off a heart condition. 

Clearly, the NBA market is unpredictable right now (Jeremy Lin has an offer for $30 million frickin dollars over 4 years - at this time last year, he was fighting for a roster spot), so who knows where Jeff's contract is going to end up. My stance is that the misconception that his heart issue is still a risk and will hurt his play is just that - a misconception.

Lin sell jerseys. 

[mctyson]

Yes, I'd let him walk.

I don't trust him to be the same player he was prior to heart surgery.

First, it wasn't heart surgery.  He had an aortic aneurysm, which is close to the heart but not actually the heart.

Second, his doctors have said he is 100% back to full health.  The only concern we should have would be conditioning, which could be fixed, and mental, which his agent said will absolutely not be an issue.

Third...you don't just let guys like Jeff Green walk unless you are positive that the $$ is overpaying.

[LEHGOCELTICS]

Any heart surgery is serious for a person.  Of course.  I am just wondering why you assume it would make him worse at basketball?

Heart surgery and being a professional athlete ... the two together worries me.

They need to be at their absolute best physically to fulfill their career. Can Jeff Green be his absolute best? Or will be an 8/10 physically instead of a 10/10? Will the injury effect his mentality on the court? Will he (even more) passive than before? Will he be comfortable pushing his body when he is tired through a long schedule? Through injuries?

It's not that I assume Jeff Green will be worse, it's that I don't know. He may be able to (1) resume his career and not miss a beat, or, (2) he may come back and play at a lower level. There is a risk there. It's not like he was a sure thing (prospect) before the heart-surgery either.

What I am uncomfortable with is the risk/reward of his contract demands. I want a one-year contract or a much lower multi-year deal (than he would've gotten pre-heart surgery) to balance out that increased risk. 

It seems that you're concern is more of his ability to deal with the mental aspect. Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how Jeff will react - that's the only aspect I wouldn't trust. I 100% believe his heart is fine and there will be no ill effects. You just have to hope he trusts his body, but you can say that for ALL injuries. KG and his knee for example, he may never admit it but I suspect a lot of his limitations during the 09-10 season were just as mental as it was physical. I hope Jeff, being a lot younger, can bounce back quicker.

It is things like this that puts him into the "prove it" contact position.


The heart issue, whether or not it can reoccur, is there and will effect his value around the league.

The heart issue will not reoccur - its not that type of injury. If that was an issue, he would not be cleared to play. Simple as that. Working in the medical field, I'd trust a player coming back from a heart procedure such as Jeff's before I trust a player coming back from a knee or ankle surgery.

It is not so much what the medical community thinks, it is about what NBA teams think.


They listen to their medical staff, but I don't see any team offering big money and long years to a guy coming off a heart condition. 

Clearly, the NBA market is unpredictable right now (Jeremy Lin has an offer for $30 million frickin dollars over 4 years - at this time last year, he was fighting for a roster spot), so who knows where Jeff's contract is going to end up. My stance is that the misconception that his heart issue is still a risk and will hurt his play is just that - a misconception.

Lin sell jerseys. 

Yep, as one of the leading jersey sellers last season, he will fill up the arena. His marketing value makes his salary look like a peanut.

[LEHGOCELTICS]

Yes, I'd let him walk.

I don't trust him to be the same player he was prior to heart surgery.

First, it wasn't heart surgery.  He had an aortic aneurysm, which is close to the heart but not actually the heart.

Second, his doctors have said he is 100% back to full health.  The only concern we should have would be conditioning, which could be fixed, and mental, which his agent said will absolutely not be an issue.

Third...you don't just let guys like Jeff Green walk unless you are positive that the $$ is overpaying.

Aortic aneurysm is where the aorta swells...LOL The aorta is a component of the heart...?

[the_Bird]

Yes, I'd let him walk.

I don't trust him to be the same player he was prior to heart surgery.

First, it wasn't heart surgery.  He had an aortic aneurysm, which is close to the heart but not actually the heart.

Second, his doctors have said he is 100% back to full health.  The only concern we should have would be conditioning, which could be fixed, and mental, which his agent said will absolutely not be an issue.

Third...you don't just let guys like Jeff Green walk unless you are positive that the $$ is overpaying.

....   that still doesn't tell you how Green's going to react to playing again.  Is he going to go as hard as he possibly can?  Is he going to be thinking about his racing heart instead of thinking about the guy he's defending?  If he's scared (reasonably or not) that he might drop dead on the court, that MIGHT have an impact on his play.  

"His agent said will absolutely not be an issue"

Nobody's going to know that - not even Jeff Green will know that - until he steps back on the court. 

[celtsfan84]

Yes, I'd let him walk.

I don't trust him to be the same player he was prior to heart surgery.

First, it wasn't heart surgery.  He had an aortic aneurysm, which is close to the heart but not actually the heart.

Second, his doctors have said he is 100% back to full health.  The only concern we should have would be conditioning, which could be fixed, and mental, which his agent said will absolutely not be an issue.

Third...you don't just let guys like Jeff Green walk unless you are positive that the $$ is overpaying.

....   that still doesn't tell you how Green's going to react to playing again.  Is he going to go as hard as he possibly can?  Is he going to be thinking about his racing heart instead of thinking about the guy he's defending?  If he's scared (reasonably or not) that he might drop dead on the court, that MIGHT have an impact on his play. 

"His agent said will absolutely not be an issue"

Nobody's going to know that - not even Jeff Green will know that - until he steps back on the court. 

Well, all Jeff Green needs is one team to be interested in him and not consider it as a factore for him to leave.  It only takes on team confident in him to hand out a paycheck.