Wojnarowski: Ray and Rondo don't have a great relationship

[CoachBo]

There's absolutely no honest debating the fact that we struggled OFTEN last year with poor ball movement in the halfcourt sets.

None whatsoever.

[clover]

I was of the mindset that we need Ray back in order to truly have a loaded backcourt.

Now I am thinking: If fans are truly skeptical that signing and playing about 5 guys who are 34+, then maybe letting Allen walk is a blessing in disguise. We will assuredly be able to get Bass and Green if he leaves. Also we'll probably be able to put out a nice bid on Krstic.

I'm beginning to think that whether Ray stays or goes, it won't be a huge difference maker.

You are partially right I think. We've just signed Terry to a 3 year deal and we can trade him whenever we want, but keeping Ray too was close to knocking on heaven's door.

The thing that concerns me is Terry's ability to hit as many huge shots as Ray- I think he's capable and he's done it before. As Celtics fans we've seen Ray do it his whole career here..ie against the Bulls in 09', the Lakers in 08' and 10', and the monster three pointer to take us into overtime in game 2 vs Miami this year. He's just so dang reliable in the clutch. Bonus with Terry is that we will have a guy that can score on his own and help us with the 4-8 minute scoring droughts, particularly in the playoffs AND hit the clutch three pointer.

ps. slight brag..I was 5th row in game 2 @ Miami and when Ray hit that shot I erupted as the only Celtics fan in a sea of Miami Heat fans.(and my girlfriend hoping we wouldn't get punched). I'll never forget Ray hitting that shot and the look on everyone's faces haha.

Don't get me wrong, Ray's as good a three-point shooter as there is, but even back in their championship season, there were whole playoff series in which Ray pretty much disappeared.  When it counts, Terry may not have hit Ray's highs, but he may have been the more consistent player.

[BudweiserCeltic]

There's absolutely no honest debating the fact that we struggled OFTEN last year with poor ball movement in the halfcourt sets.

None whatsoever.

Sadly, Ray's assumed grievances on and off the court with Rondo are legit. Ball movement aside, I've mentioned quite often how Rondo has a bit of a problem finding guys on the perimeter, particularly with well timed passes. So I can see how it can frustrate someone like Ray who's running around with his old legs trying to get open, and when he does the opportunity is often missed. It happens often in transition too when Ray spots up for an in-rhythm 3 but doesn't get the ball (though it happens with Pierce too albeit less often).

That said, I think the media is making it a bigger issue than it really is.

Rondo certainly has some attitude problems which rubs people the wrong way, and Ray, although having a great attitude, is a weird personality himself, so they can often clash. But once again, I think it looks worse from the outside from what it really is.

[RJ87]

I wonder how much of the tension is attributed to Rondo not being shy about his preference of Avery Bradley in the starting lineup? Paul and KG avoided the topic, but Rondo said something along the lines of liking how Avery has the legs to get out and run with him and his cutting to the basket brings a new dimension to the offense. If Rondo was open in public, there's little doubt he open about behind closed doors.

In all honesty though, that's exactly what I want from our key players. If something is helping the team, speak up. I lost some respect for Ray this year, I think he could have handled becoming the 6th man far more gracefully than he did. That's why I like the Jason Terry signing - he fully embraces coming off of the bench and puts the team above his ego.

[celty86]

As great as Rondo is, too often the ball sticks with him while the shot clock is down to 7 - 8 seconds and we end up with a forced shot before the shot clock expires. One would think that as a perimeter shooter, running his butt off to get open, Ray isn't to happy with that.  Is the reason for our being near the bottom of the league in offensive efficiency, us not moving the ball more? If so, who's fault is that?

[BudweiserCeltic]

I wonder how much of the tension is attributed to Rondo not being shy about his preference of Avery Bradley in the starting lineup? Paul and KG avoided the topic, but Rondo said something along the lines of liking how Avery has the legs to get out and run with him and his cutting to the basket brings a new dimension to the offense. If Rondo was open in public, there's little doubt he open about behind closed doors.

In all honesty though, that's exactly what I want from our key players. If something is helping the team, speak up. I lost some respect for Ray this year, I think he could have handled becoming the 6th man far more gracefully than he did. That's why I like the Jason Terry signing - he fully embraces coming off of the bench and puts the team above his ego.

Find me somewhere that implicates Ray not taking on that role gracefully? Seriously, these are top level competitors, of course there's going to be some discontent at losing a starting job, but at the end of the day Ray took it and played it through without causing trouble.

I have a feeling that people would be content with a roster full of losers.

[droopdog7]

I wonder how much of the tension is attributed to Rondo not being shy about his preference of Avery Bradley in the starting lineup? Paul and KG avoided the topic, but Rondo said something along the lines of liking how Avery has the legs to get out and run with him and his cutting to the basket brings a new dimension to the offense. If Rondo was open in public, there's little doubt he open about behind closed doors.

In all honesty though, that's exactly what I want from our key players. If something is helping the team, speak up. I lost some respect for Ray this year, I think he could have handled becoming the 6th man far more gracefully than he did. That's why I like the Jason Terry signing - he fully embraces coming off of the bench and puts the team above his ego.

Find me somewhere that implicates Ray not taking on that role gracefully? Seriously, these are top level competitors, of course there's going to be some discontent at losing a starting job, but at the end of the day Ray took it and played it through without causing trouble.

I have a feeling that people would be content with a roster full of losers.

Has anyone paid attention to rondo off the court (in interviews and other off court instances)?  The  seems like a real pain in the butt to deal with.  If he were my teammate, rondo would drive me nuts too.  I've seen enough to be sure of that.

This is not news.  Everyone on the team has already alluded to it and I believe it is part of the reason he has been on the block.  Looks like the others have learned to deal with it but not ray.

[ScottHow]

I can't imagine this driving Ray away from Boston. You don't have to be best friends you just have to respect your teammates. I would guess every locker room has this. Is it really going to be why Ray moves his family across the country? I doubt it.

[33_Larry Legend_33]

There's a difference between two guys not getting along vs. not liking each other.  Kevin McHale & Larry Bird were not really friends, and didn't really like each other.  BUT they could co-exist on the basketball court because it wasn't personal.  If Ray & Rondo have something that either has deemed personal, this relationship is over with the Celtics for Ray Allen. 

If Ray leaves I won't be heartbroken.  I think the other pieces that Danny's already put on this team, and will continue to add, will make up for Ray's departure.  Personally, I'm a fan of Josh Howard, and believe he's on the C's radar. 

I appreciate Ray Allen, and believe he's a consummate professional.  But I think it's fair to say that HE'S got some personal issues that he needs to let go of as well.  Everyone wants to paint this like it's ALL on Rondo.  I don't believe that...I think Ray's a bit OCD, and if I MUST choose between the two, I take Rondo every second and twice on Sunday.  If Ray leaves, thanks for the memories...  If it's the Heat, then he becomes the enemy, and though respected, I won't root for him for one second.  It's about the name on the FRONT of the jersey, not the back.

But I have no fear that Danny isn't doing everything he can, and if Doc feels the way he does about Allen, I think it's a safe bet Ray's time in Boston is over.  I'm torn on him returning...solid player, BUT is it finally starting to end for Ray?  Will these foot issues stay with him?  It might be so, and the problem for Ray is that he simply cannot come to grip with the idea that he will now be a marginal player. 

Everyone has their own feelings on Ray...  I respect anyone who disagrees with me, but if I'm in Danny's shoes, If he wants to walk away I don't feel bad for that for a split second. 

[clover]

I was of the mindset that we need Ray back in order to truly have a loaded backcourt.

Now I am thinking: If fans are truly skeptical that signing and playing about 5 guys who are 34+, then maybe letting Allen walk is a blessing in disguise. We will assuredly be able to get Bass and Green if he leaves. Also we'll probably be able to put out a nice bid on Krstic.

I'm beginning to think that whether Ray stays or goes, it won't be a huge difference maker.

This.  If they'd been able to reel in Ray, they could still have the MLE for a big man or two, but they don't.  So it goes.

[clover]

I wonder how much of the tension is attributed to Rondo not being shy about his preference of Avery Bradley in the starting lineup? Paul and KG avoided the topic, but Rondo said something along the lines of liking how Avery has the legs to get out and run with him and his cutting to the basket brings a new dimension to the offense. If Rondo was open in public, there's little doubt he open about behind closed doors.

In all honesty though, that's exactly what I want from our key players. If something is helping the team, speak up. I lost some respect for Ray this year, I think he could have handled becoming the 6th man far more gracefully than he did. That's why I like the Jason Terry signing - he fully embraces coming off of the bench and puts the team above his ego.

Find me somewhere that implicates Ray not taking on that role gracefully? Seriously, these are top level competitors, of course there's going to be some discontent at losing a starting job, but at the end of the day Ray took it and played it through without causing trouble.

I have a feeling that people would be content with a roster full of losers.

Has anyone paid attention to rondo off the court (in interviews and other off court instances)?  The  seems like a real pain in the butt to deal with.  If he were my teammate, rondo would drive me nuts too.  I've seen enough to be sure of that.

This is not news.  Everyone on the team has already alluded to it and I believe it is part of the reason he has been on the block.  Looks like the others have learned to deal with it but not ray.

Yes, Rondo is irritating, but Ray seems to take himself way too seriously, with an overblown and fragile ego.  Still, according to the report in the Herald today, it was on-court issues that were the final deal-breaker. 

I can only imagine Rondo tired of having to wait all day for a slower Ray to get free and that Ray blamed Rondo rather than himself for not subsequently getting more shots.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Tell Danny to give Ray a 3 year deal, and this is pretty much done.

[droopdog7]

I wonder how much of the tension is attributed to Rondo not being shy about his preference of Avery Bradley in the starting lineup? Paul and KG avoided the topic, but Rondo said something along the lines of liking how Avery has the legs to get out and run with him and his cutting to the basket brings a new dimension to the offense. If Rondo was open in public, there's little doubt he open about behind closed doors.

In all honesty though, that's exactly what I want from our key players. If something is helping the team, speak up. I lost some respect for Ray this year, I think he could have handled becoming the 6th man far more gracefully than he did. That's why I like the Jason Terry signing - he fully embraces coming off of the bench and puts the team above his ego.

Find me somewhere that implicates Ray not taking on that role gracefully? Seriously, these are top level competitors, of course there's going to be some discontent at losing a starting job, but at the end of the day Ray took it and played it through without causing trouble.

I have a feeling that people would be content with a roster full of losers.

Has anyone paid attention to rondo off the court (in interviews and other off court instances)?  The  seems like a real pain in the butt to deal with.  If he were my teammate, rondo would drive me nuts too.  I've seen enough to be sure of that.

This is not news.  Everyone on the team has already alluded to it and I believe it is part of the reason he has been on the block.  Looks like the others have learned to deal with it but not ray.

Yes, Rondo is irritating, but Ray seems to take himself way too seriously, with an overblown and fragile ego.  Still, according to the report in the Herald today, it was on-court issues that were the final deal-breaker. 

I can only imagine Rondo tired of having to wait all day for a slower Ray to get free and that Ray blamed Rondo rather than himself for not subsequently getting more shots.

Has anyone ever heard of a teammate not named rondo not get along with Ray?  Not me.  On the other hand, just about every teammate has pointed to how difficult rondo is.  So no, this is more on rondo than ray. 

[JOMVP]

The longer the wait is, the more I think Ray ends up with the Clippers. Starting job, full mid-level, and a chance to see if he can get more open shots with Chris Paul handling the ball than Rondo.

[droopdog7]

There's a difference between two guys not getting along vs. not liking each other.  Kevin McHale & Larry Bird were not really friends, and didn't really like each other.  BUT they could co-exist on the basketball court because it wasn't personal.  If Ray & Rondo have something that either has deemed personal, this relationship is over with the Celtics for Ray Allen. 

If Ray leaves I won't be heartbroken.  I think the other pieces that Danny's already put on this team, and will continue to add, will make up for Ray's departure.  Personally, I'm a fan of Josh Howard, and believe he's on the C's radar. 

I appreciate Ray Allen, and believe he's a consummate professional.  But I think it's fair to say that HE'S got some personal issues that he needs to let go of as well.  Everyone wants to paint this like it's ALL on Rondo.  I don't believe that...I think Ray's a bit OCD, and if I MUST choose between the two, I take Rondo every second and twice on Sunday.  If Ray leaves, thanks for the memories...  If it's the Heat, then he becomes the enemy, and though respected, I won't root for him for one second.  It's about the name on the FRONT of the jersey, not the back.

But I have no fear that Danny isn't doing everything he can, and if Doc feels the way he does about Allen, I think it's a safe bet Ray's time in Boston is over.  I'm torn on him returning...solid player, BUT is it finally starting to end for Ray?  Will these foot issues stay with him?  It might be so, and the problem for Ray is that he simply cannot come to grip with the idea that he will now be a marginal player. 

Everyone has their own feelings on Ray...  I respect anyone who disagrees with me, but if I'm in Danny's shoes, If he wants to walk away I don't feel bad for that for a split second. 

This is a classic case of a fan taking the side of a player who is better and still on the team.  You're trying to justify your point but I'm. It buying it.  I have never heard of rays OCD bother anyone else.  Face it, rondo is a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. to deal with.  Maybe ray should be above it but I am not blaming him in this case.