Celtics making promise to Royce White at 21? (rumor)

[Chris]

I am hoping that the promise to White is from the C's pick...but the pick will be from another team (Houston?) that is trading down to get White. 

I can see White as a Danny guy, because he is a classic "I am smarter than all of you idiots" pick.  But, I really hope he isn't. 

He is one of those guys with just enough of a combination of size, athleticism and skill to be a good college player, but he is not strong enough in any of those categories to be good in the NBA.  Those guys can be nice sleepers in the second round, if they are also character guys (Ryan Gomes types), but when they have red flags on their personality, and are guaranteed money, it is just bad times. 

When he is unable to create any space for himself off the dribble, unable to get clean shots up, and unable to grab rebounds over the bigger, more athletic guys, it will just be a countdown until he is out of the league.

Are you confusing Royce White with Draymond Green?

White is a very impressive athlete. His blend of power, agility, length and leaping ability is remarkable for a guy with his frame.  We're talking about a Leon Powe type of athlete with Big Baby's frame and Boris Diaw's skill level.

Nope, I am talking about White.  I have not seen the athleticism at all.  He is big and strong, and has good body control, but very little explosiveness and quickness.

[Evantime34]

Even if Royce doesn't have a great first step if he can come in and get a lot of boards, pass the ball well and lighten the ball handling load isn't he worth the 21st pick?

Assuming he's able to defend a a reasonable level if his passing and rebounding translate sure.

But that's the question, you can be a good rebounder and college and not have it translate, it usually does but not always. And rebounding alone isn't enough to earn you minutes, we need more whether its defense/shooting/passing/etc...

I think it will translate since he's more of a position rebounder than a leaper.

So was Glen Davis.

Ouch. I never understood why Baby didn't rebound better on the defensive glass. When he wanted to he seemed to box out and go get on the offensive boards but it was much more rare to see on the defensive boards.

White is a little taller, has a much longer wingspan, is in better shape than Baby, and has bigger hands. Hopefully those things contribute to making him the rebounder Baby never was.

[sofutomygaha]

NEWS BULLETIN: GLEN DAVIS IS NOT A FAILURE

People keep comparing prospects to Glen Davis as though to illustrate what a potential disaster they could be. We got a lot of good basketball out of Glen Davis. He's not a star, but for a 34th pick, Davis turned out to be a solid rotation player who returned excellent value for his draft slot. If they had 2007 to do all over again, some team would have grabbed him in the late teens or early twenties of the first round.

[Snakehead]

Even if Royce doesn't have a great first step if he can come in and get a lot of boards, pass the ball well and lighten the ball handling load isn't he worth the 21st pick?

Assuming he's able to defend a a reasonable level if his passing and rebounding translate sure.

But that's the question, you can be a good rebounder and college and not have it translate, it usually does but not always. And rebounding alone isn't enough to earn you minutes, we need more whether its defense/shooting/passing/etc...

I think it will translate since he's more of a position rebounder than a leaper.

So was Glen Davis.

And?

Glend Davis is a good player, especially for a late 1st round pick. The problem with Glen Davis is not his skill set but his mental atittude.  He thinks he is the best player on the floor and a jump shooter rather than a rebounder and clean up man.

If he didn't have those issues I would still have him on our team probably.  But he did... and good riddance.

NEWS BULLETIN: GLEN DAVIS IS NOT A FAILURE

People keep comparing prospects to Glen Davis as though to illustrate what a potential disaster they could be. We got a lot of good basketball out of Glen Davis. He's not a star, but for a 34th pick, Davis turned out to be a solid rotation player who returned excellent value for his draft slot. If they had 2007 to do all over again, some team would have grabbed him in the late teens or early twenties of the first round.

Exactly. TP

[snively]

I am hoping that the promise to White is from the C's pick...but the pick will be from another team (Houston?) that is trading down to get White. 

I can see White as a Danny guy, because he is a classic "I am smarter than all of you idiots" pick.  But, I really hope he isn't. 

He is one of those guys with just enough of a combination of size, athleticism and skill to be a good college player, but he is not strong enough in any of those categories to be good in the NBA.  Those guys can be nice sleepers in the second round, if they are also character guys (Ryan Gomes types), but when they have red flags on their personality, and are guaranteed money, it is just bad times. 

When he is unable to create any space for himself off the dribble, unable to get clean shots up, and unable to grab rebounds over the bigger, more athletic guys, it will just be a countdown until he is out of the league.

Are you confusing Royce White with Draymond Green?

White is a very impressive athlete. His blend of power, agility, length and leaping ability is remarkable for a guy with his frame.  We're talking about a Leon Powe type of athlete with Big Baby's frame and Boris Diaw's skill level.

Nope, I am talking about White.  I have not seen the athleticism at all.  He is big and strong, and has good body control, but very little explosiveness and quickness.

Very little explosiveness and quickness compared to who?  Next to athletic freaks like Blake Griffin, Serge Ibaka, Josh Smith and (a healthy) Amare, sure, but look at some of the starting PFs around the league: Carlos Boozer, DeJuan Blair, Elton Brand, Kris Humphries, David West, Dirk, Ryan Anderson, Kevin Love, Pau Gasol, David Lee, Zach Randolph, Luis Scola...  The back-ups aren't athletic specimens either.

There's a reason a fat Boris Diaw was still a threat to break down PFs off the bounce with his sheer skill - they are not the most athletic lot.  Heck even the athletic ones still have problems adjusting to guarding a guy with high levels of skill. 

And relative to fat Boris Diaw, White is a pretty impressive athlete. The guy regularly dunked with ease off dribble drives and spin moves, occasionally with contact.

People see him dancing around on the perimeter and they compare him to wings - he's going to look slow.  But compare him to other bigs who operate on the perimeter or in the post and he looks like he belongs athletically. 

[Fafnir]

Even if Royce doesn't have a great first step if he can come in and get a lot of boards, pass the ball well and lighten the ball handling load isn't he worth the 21st pick?

Assuming he's able to defend a a reasonable level if his passing and rebounding translate sure.

But that's the question, you can be a good rebounder and college and not have it translate, it usually does but not always. And rebounding alone isn't enough to earn you minutes, we need more whether its defense/shooting/passing/etc...

I think it will translate since he's more of a position rebounder than a leaper.

So was Glen Davis.

And?

Glend Davis is a good player, especially for a late 1st round pick, AND the problem with Glen Davis is not his skill set but his mental atittude.  He thinks he is the best player on the floor and a jump shooter rather than a rebounder and clean up man.

Glen Davis was a superior rebounder in college to what he has performed in the NBA, that is the long and short of what I was refering to.

Oh and he was a second round pick.

[snively]

Even if Royce doesn't have a great first step if he can come in and get a lot of boards, pass the ball well and lighten the ball handling load isn't he worth the 21st pick?

Assuming he's able to defend a a reasonable level if his passing and rebounding translate sure.

But that's the question, you can be a good rebounder and college and not have it translate, it usually does but not always. And rebounding alone isn't enough to earn you minutes, we need more whether its defense/shooting/passing/etc...

I think it will translate since he's more of a position rebounder than a leaper.

So was Glen Davis.

White's the significantly better athlete than Davis (and not solely a position rebounder).  More reason for optimism for his rebounding to translate.

[Fafnir]

NEWS BULLETIN: GLEN DAVIS IS NOT A FAILURE

Good thing no one here said this.

Instead we were referring to rebounding translating from the college level to the pros. Typically it does, though (as Glen Davis's career has shown) not always.

[CoachBo]

I am hoping that the promise to White is from the C's pick...but the pick will be from another team (Houston?) that is trading down to get White. 

I can see White as a Danny guy, because he is a classic "I am smarter than all of you idiots" pick.  But, I really hope he isn't. 

He is one of those guys with just enough of a combination of size, athleticism and skill to be a good college player, but he is not strong enough in any of those categories to be good in the NBA.  Those guys can be nice sleepers in the second round, if they are also character guys (Ryan Gomes types), but when they have red flags on their personality, and are guaranteed money, it is just bad times. 

When he is unable to create any space for himself off the dribble, unable to get clean shots up, and unable to grab rebounds over the bigger, more athletic guys, it will just be a countdown until he is out of the league.

Are you confusing Royce White with Draymond Green?

White is a very impressive athlete. His blend of power, agility, length and leaping ability is remarkable for a guy with his frame.  We're talking about a Leon Powe type of athlete with Big Baby's frame and Boris Diaw's skill level.

Nope, I am talking about White.  I have not seen the athleticism at all.  He is big and strong, and has good body control, but very little explosiveness and quickness.

I agree with this assessment in total. White isn't athletic enough, given his other issues, for this to be any more than another of Danny's misspent draft dalliances: Yi, etc.

I hope, and expect, that this is an Ainge smokescreen for a two-for-one to trade up.

[Snakehead]

Even if Royce doesn't have a great first step if he can come in and get a lot of boards, pass the ball well and lighten the ball handling load isn't he worth the 21st pick?

Assuming he's able to defend a a reasonable level if his passing and rebounding translate sure.

But that's the question, you can be a good rebounder and college and not have it translate, it usually does but not always. And rebounding alone isn't enough to earn you minutes, we need more whether its defense/shooting/passing/etc...

I think it will translate since he's more of a position rebounder than a leaper.

So was Glen Davis.

And?

Glend Davis is a good player, especially for a late 1st round pick, AND the problem with Glen Davis is not his skill set but his mental atittude.  He thinks he is the best player on the floor and a jump shooter rather than a rebounder and clean up man.

Glen Davis was a superior rebounder in college to what he has performed in the NBA, that is the long and short of what I was refering to.

Oh and he was a second round pick.

He was very early 2nd round and he should not have been a 2nd rounder, like metioned by sofutomygaha. If you could have a do-over, he would go in the low 20's conservatively, earlier I'd think.

I said late 1st because if Royce White turns out to be Glen Davis, that's a good pick for us.  If he turns out to be Glen Davis with the right attitude plus passing and ball handling skills?  GREAT pick.

Again though, Glen Davis has mental issues.  If he didn't, and wanted to be the rebonder he should be, he would have better rebounding numbers.  It's hard to rebound when you want to be 15-18 ft away shooting jumpers.

Royce White isn't a shooter.  He is a ball handler, but he won't be for us.  I think that role took him away from the boards in college so rebounding numbers are probably misleading.

[LooseCannon]

Davis was a guy who was predicted to go somewhere between 20th and 40th overall, a potential first-rounder because of his talent and a potential second-rounder because of his height and weight.  To certain degree, players taken in that range are often a matter of what flaws a team is willing to tolerate or attempt to correct.

Royce White seems to be a similar case with the talent that could earn him a first round slot and red flags that could have him drop to the second.

[ummidkme]

Exactly. If Royce can be eventually a Boris Diaw or Big Baby type player then he is a pretty good pick. I don't know what people are expecting at #20.

[LooseCannon]

Exactly. If Royce can be eventually a Boris Diaw or Big Baby type player then he is a pretty good pick. I don't know what people are expecting at #20.

Rondo-level talent.  Or at least a player who is better than every single player drafted after him.  A good GM probably has a much better chance than pure random luck in terms of getting a player who can contribute, but getting the absolute best player available is a pretty tough thing to do.

[wiley]

Watching that video just confimed what I have been saying.  He is just not athletic and quick enough to do that in the NBA.  He couldn't get separation with his first step against college big men.  He is not going to do it against NBA big men and wings on a regular basis.  The pivots and up and unders are nice, but in the NBA, that will be too slow, and will just get swatted back at him, and the passes won't be there, because teams will know they don't have to help on him.

I like the comparisons to Lebron, because that is exactly what he is, a Lebron clone...except instead of having otherworldly athleticism and quickness, he makes Antoine Walker look fast. 

I disagree that he'll get the ball swatted a lot, mainly because he's a great passer with a high bbiq, but also because he's a big dude with a huge wingspan.  He'll create space and put the ball off the glass over people before they close the space back.  Or, he'll make clever passes.  I also think he'll excell on broken plays and taking it to the rim.  Antoine W. was a good passer but his iq was so so when it came to shot selection.  White will be better than Big Baby imo.
I do think, down the road when KG is gone, he'll be best at PF next to a big center like Demarcus Cousins or someone like that....At that point I think he'll make an awesome PF.

[ummidkme]

Exactly. If Royce can be eventually a Boris Diaw or Big Baby type player then he is a pretty good pick. I don't know what people are expecting at #20.

Rondo-level talent.  Or at least a player who is better than every single player drafted after him.  A good GM probably has a much better chance than pure random luck in terms of getting a player who can contribute, but getting the absolute best player available is a pretty tough thing to do.

So this is just a question. Who do you think is better than White with the 21st or 22nd pick?