Celtic Tragedy

[looseball]

The final 7 game series with the Lakers in 2010 and with Miami in 2012 share some eerie similarities:
After 4 games both series were tied at 2 apiece.  The Celts won the 5th games to go up 3-2, then got blown out in the 6th games to even the series at 3-3.  In both 7th games the Celts break out on top, grab big leads, lose the momentum in the 3rd quarter, and lose the game in the 4th quarter.

In both series the cause of defeat is "fatigue".  In the 2010 final Pierce plays 46 minutes, KG 38, Wallace 36, Allen 45, Rondo 45.
In 2012 Pierce plays 42, Kg 35, Bass 40, Allen 39, Rondo 44.

During the playoffs each year we get important contributions from our reserves, but game 7 belongs to our starters.  We choose to live or die with their heroics.  They are up to the task mentally and aggressively, and fight the good fight to the finish.  But, they are doomed because they cannot match the stamina of the other side's younger guys playing similar minutes.
However, though defeat is bitter, we have our heroes to love and admire, and hope they can return for an encore next year.

[All Star Matt Clement]

I felt the same way after the Game 5 win and Game 6 loss...eerily too much like 2010 Finals

[Mizzy21390]

Wow. Look at how eerily similar those numbers are from both years.. Its like almost a copy. The Finals hurt more, because we were so close to number # just to fail at the end, & Kobe got another ring at our expense... but this one's just right up there, as it would have been great to have kicked the Heat out and shock the world that already predicted us to be steamrolled and get to another Finals...

[Tgro]

The 2010 Finals hurt a lot more. Maybe the most painful moment Ive had being a Celtic fan. It still hurts today and feels like it was yesterday.

This year hurts because as bad as we wanted to see the guys win the Finals in 2010, I just wanted to see them make it to the Finals this year. The guys really had everything against them this year and they overcame every obstacle. I thought when we lost Bradley, that was the last straw and we still came out and came within 8 minutes of the Finals. Incidentally, we were 6 minutes away in 2010.

The thing I will say about this year compared to last is last year we collapsed at the end of Game 5 in Miami and never scored again for like the last few minutes of the game. This year I think we took an 81-80 lead with 8 minutes to go and then Miami outscored us 21-7 the rest of the way. In both games, we just stopped scoring and they tore it up at the end.

I really think the core is still legit, we just need more of an infusion of youth to help us get over the hump. I still think we're in the Finals this year if we had Bradley. We need him and some more youth next season in my opinion.

[LB3533]

For whatever reason, Doc did not either a.) have players he trusted to play more minutes or b.) have players that were effective to alleviate the minutes of our starters.

There is some responsibility on Doc with regards to minutes and there is a heck of a lot of responsibility on Danny for acquiring some of these players.

[Tgro]

For whatever reason, Doc did not either a.) have players he trusted to play more minutes or b.) have players that were effective to alleviate the minutes of our starters.

There is some responsibility on Doc with regards to minutes and there is a heck of a lot of responsibility on Danny for acquiring some of these players.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree and say Doc did a Hell of a job this year with what he had. He had a Frankenstein of a team.

Yeah, he had bad moments and decisions. But what he overcame. I get a little miffed when I see all the Doc bashers. You can second guess anything. This team had no business being 8 minutes away from the Finals and yet there they were.

Let's give Doc some credit. He overachieved if you ask me.

Doc isn't the problem. Youth and health is.

[clover]

"they are doomed because they cannot match the stamina of the other side's younger guys...hope they can return for an encore next year."

You've got a growing conflict within your statement:  they've been doomed when they've got somewhere in two of the last three years because they're too old, but you want the same guys back next year when they're even older still?

[Roy H.]

The Lakers Game 7 was a travesty, as the refs totally changed the way they were calling the game in the 4th.  They basically handed the game to the Lakers.

This year, as bad as the refs were in Games 1 and 2, we just got plain beat in Game 7.

[Smitty77]

Great comparison Looseball!!  However, I think that getting out shot at the FT line 37 to 17 overall and 21 to 6 in the 4th quarter had NOTHING to do with the outcome:-)))  It was ALL fatigue:-)))

Smitty77

[Fred Roberts]

Roy - Great call about the refs in the Finals game 7. We were slowing down, but would have held on without the ref ridiculousness.

I totally agree with BOTH sentiments about Doc. He's an incredible coach, and we're fortunate to have him. He did a great job this year. But like anyone, Doc's NOT perfect.

He froze up in both game 7's in the second half by playing the starters too much. The weariness was painful to see in both game. In the first half against Miami, we had some nice minutes from guys like Hollins and others and it kept the game flowing. In game 7 vs the Lakers, I was literally begging for a couple minutes from anyone (including Scalabrine) to give us some fresh legs.

We won games vs the Heat when Daniels and Pietrus and Dooling stepped up. When Doc didn't give anyone from the bench a shot to save the starters from fatigue in the 2nd half of those game 7's (esp 4th quarters), it was a no win proposition.

Anyways. Glad to have gotten so far and still have Doc going forward.

[joeb]

The Lakers Game 7 was a travesty, as the refs totally changed the way they were calling the game in the 4th.  They basically handed the game to the Lakers.

This year, as bad as the refs were in Games 1 and 2, we just got plain beat in Game 7.

Couldn't agree more, the 2010 championship was stolen from us (21 FTs in a game is a reasonable number, but in one quarter?). We ran outta gas in game 7 this year, plain and simple. It's hard to get any momentum, rhythm or upperhand if you're sucking fumes. Yeah they needed to score more in the 4th qtr, but it's their defense that let them down (lots of reaching because they were out of position and the feet couldn't move fast enough).

With all that said, I'm very proud to be a Celtics fan. I want my kids to understand what it means to give your all in pursuit of what you want. This is not a team that feels entitled, they definitely put the work in and then some.

[Bankshot]

For whatever reason, Doc did not either a.) have players he trusted to play more minutes or b.) have players that were effective to alleviate the minutes of our starters.

There is some responsibility on Doc with regards to minutes and there is a heck of a lot of responsibility on Danny for acquiring some of these players.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree and say Doc did a Hell of a job this year with what he had. He had a Frankenstein of a team.

Yeah, he had bad moments and decisions. But what he overcame. I get a little miffed when I see all the Doc bashers. You can second guess anything. This team had no business being 8 minutes away from the Finals and yet there they were.

Let's give Doc some credit. He overachieved if you ask me.

Doc isn't the problem. Youth and health is.

I agree with LB.  I remember that game 7 very clearly like it was yesterday.  I was screaming at the tv for Doc to use Tony Allen, who had defended Kobe so well that he shot like 27% for the series, and to play Nate, who was brought in for offense btw, and who already won a game for you in the series, but he didn't play Tony much and only played Nate 2 or 3 minutes at a time when no one else could score.  Doc went away from what he had done the entire series.  I blame Doc the most for the game 7 loss.

[Neurotic Guy]

For whatever reason, Doc did not either a.) have players he trusted to play more minutes or b.) have players that were effective to alleviate the minutes of our starters.

There is some responsibility on Doc with regards to minutes and there is a heck of a lot of responsibility on Danny for acquiring some of these players.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree and say Doc did a Hell of a job this year with what he had. He had a Frankenstein of a team.

Yeah, he had bad moments and decisions. But what he overcame. I get a little miffed when I see all the Doc bashers. You can second guess anything. This team had no business being 8 minutes away from the Finals and yet there they were.

Let's give Doc some credit. He overachieved if you ask me.

Doc isn't the problem. Youth and health is.

I think overall that Doc did a great job with this team.  2 points:
1.  We don't know everything that Doc knows about his players (mentally and physically) and the nuances of the various contexts he faces.  It's always at least a little unfair to criticize (not unfair to question) without all the information, and without considering the potential shorter and longer-term consequences of each decision.  Doc has to make decisions all game long and it would be impossibe for him to always make the correct judgments.

2. I think if other team's coaches were scrutinized to the same extent that Doc's moves are scrutinized very few would be able to survive a game without the questioning of moves and the accusation of mistakes. 


When all aspects of coaching are considered, I suspect that we are pretty lucky to have Doc coaching the Celtics.

[eugen]

For me the real tragedy was season 2008-09, when Cs lost KG

[looseball]

For whatever reason, Doc did not either a.) have players he trusted to play more minutes or b.) have players that were effective to alleviate the minutes of our starters.

There is some responsibility on Doc with regards to minutes and there is a heck of a lot of responsibility on Danny for acquiring some of these players.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree and say Doc did a Hell of a job this year with what he had. He had a Frankenstein of a team.

Yeah, he had bad moments and decisions. But what he overcame. I get a little miffed when I see all the Doc bashers. You can second guess anything. This team had no business being 8 minutes away from the Finals and yet there they were.

Let's give Doc some credit. He overachieved if you ask me.

Doc isn't the problem. Youth and health is.

I agree with LB.  I remember that game 7 very clearly like it was yesterday.  I was screaming at the tv for Doc to use Tony Allen, who had defended Kobe so well that he shot like 27% for the series, and to play Nate, who was brought in for offense btw, and who already won a game for you in the series, but he didn't play Tony much and only played Nate 2 or 3 minutes at a time when no one else could score.  Doc went away from what he had done the entire series.  I blame Doc the most for the game 7 loss.

Whether it's basketball, golf, horseracing, or any other sport, championships are won by the ability to "finish".