LeBron James

[snowball]

Guys this is basketball not hockey.
You don't send out a goon to physically
intimidate/incapacitate a player in basketball.

[BC1996]

Guys this is basketball not hockey.
You don't send out a goon to physically
intimidate/incapacitate a player in basketball.

Yeah I think this often get's talked about way too much.  A solid hard foul needs to come in the flow of the game.  No team should go out of their way to create a situation where they will deliver a hard foul.  It's almost always counterproductive and results in ejections.   

[Mr October]

The thing is, Lebron destroyed the Celtics with jump shots. If he does that you can't stop him. No one can.

The good thing is that he is rarely that good from the outside. The best defense on Lebron forces him to shoot jump shots.

Nice work, Lebron. Lets see if you can do it again.

[Celtics18]

Guys this is basketball not hockey.
You don't send out a goon to physically
intimidate/incapacitate a player in basketball.

Yeah I think this often get's talked about way too much.  A solid hard foul needs to come in the flow of the game.  No team should go out of their way to create a situation where they will deliver a hard foul.  It's almost always counterproductive and results in ejections.   

I'm with you guys.  One of the things I've enjoyed about this series is that while it's been played hard and competitively, it's also been relatively clean up until this point. 

I'm not a big fan of the dirty play, by my own team or by the opposition. 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm not advocating hurting the guy. I did mention a possible flagrant one, but that's just emotion on my part.

I don't want to see anyone on the Heat get hurt. But having played a lot of basketball, there are just so many ways you can get physical with a guy and disrupt his game that does not constitute a flagrant or anything dirty whatsoever.

It's more along the lines of simply introducing yourself to someone. It's more along the lines of Rondo's foul on Wade on the break in game 5 I think. You could tell that Wade was very "aware" of Rondo on that play.

First of all, if you can't stop the guy once he gets the ball because he's "unconscious":

1. the guy should not walk by a Celtic player on the floor without our guys reaching out and making some small contact

2. You should get in complete wrestling match, denying the guy the ball. bring in Marquis and let him get 2-3 fouls pushing the limit on ball denial of LeBron

3. If he goes up for a jump shot, crowd him and rake his arms "good and hard" - take a couple fouls like that.

4. Tell your guys when he comes into the lane, make good, solid, hard contact with him - take a couple extra fouls.

4. I saw one play when he was coming down the lane and Stiemsma tried to make the athletic play on him at the rim. Greg, lay him on the ground - that's your athleticism and it won't get you a flagrant - go for the ball body him up hard.

Kind of a free safety play like Wade made on Pierce a couple games back that didn't get called when Pierce was going up for a jump shots.

These are easy plays to make and they aren't dirty, that's good, hard physical basketball.

If a guy comes into my gym shooting 70% and threatening my ride to the finals, he's gonna feel it, and he's gonna have to earn it at the line and be willing to keep taking it for 48 minutes.

None of this waltzing around the court for 48 mminutes at 70% shooting. I don't think so.

You have to rattle the guy and if that wasn't going on last night, they deserved the loss IMHO

[GreenNote]

It was very similar to his first game back in Cleveland where he silenced the crowed and didn't show too much emotion

[RajonRondo9Dime]

The whole "you can't foul hard, you'll get a fine and a suspension" talk is total BULLSH!T.

You CAN foul hard.

Believe it or not, there is a difference between a hard foul, and a dirty foul.

[Celtics18]

I'm not advocating hurting the guy. I did mention a possible flagrant one, but that's just emotion on my part.

I don't want to see anyone on the Heat get hurt. But having played a lot of basketball, there are just so many ways you can get physical with a guy and disrupt his game that does not constitute a flagrant or anything dirty whatsoever.

It's more along the lines of simply introducing yourself to someone. It's more along the lines of Rondo's foul on Wade on the break in game 5 I think. You could tell that Wade was very "aware" of Rondo on that play.

First of all, if you can't stop the guy once he gets the ball because he's "unconscious":

1. the guy should not walk by a Celtic player on the floor without our guys reaching out and making some small contact

2. You should get in complete wrestling match, denying the guy the ball. bring in Marquis and let him get 2-3 fouls pushing the limit on ball denial of LeBron

3. If he goes up for a jump shot, crowd him and rake his arms "good and hard" - take a couple fouls like that.

4. Tell your guys when he comes into the lane, make good, solid, hard contact with him - take a couple extra fouls.

4. I saw one play when he was coming down the lane and Stiemsma tried to make the athletic play on him at the rim. Greg, lay him on the ground - that's your athleticism and it won't get you a flagrant - go for the ball body him up hard.

Kind of a free safety play like Wade made on Pierce a couple games back that didn't get called when Pierce was going up for a jump shots.

These are easy plays to make and they aren't dirty, that's good, hard physical basketball.

If a guy comes into my gym shooting 70% and threatening my ride to the finals, he's gonna feel it, and he's gonna have to earn it at the line and be willing to keep taking it for 48 minutes.

None of this waltzing around the court for 48 mminutes at 70% shooting. I don't think so.

You have to rattle the guy and if that wasn't going on last night, they deserved the loss IMHO

That's all fair.  I think our guys have been pretty physical.  They'll have to up that physicality in game seven, but they have to be smart.  I mean, Paul Pierce has fouled out of two games already.  Brandon Bass has been in serious foul trouble, even Rondo.  

You want to be careful that you don't get physical to the point where you are hurting your team.  That's all I'm saying.  

We got a bit of a shellacking last night, but this team is good enough to win playing good, hard, physical, but clean, basketball.

[Mr October]

Fouling Lebron hard isn't going to make a difference.

The guy is a tank, an absolute tank.

He and the Heat must be beaten with superior team ball.

(now if someone wanted to wack Wade a few times, he's due. Karma comes around.)  

[Meadowlark_Scal]

What i meant is that someone going to the hoop with an open lane is just usually a defender who is either tired or didn't move his feet...those open lanes are not good for us....if you are constantly up on him, he will have to take fade away jumpers, and use up shot clock.....he won't hit like that often....

[Clench123]

Please Doc, play Sean Williams.  The guy can impact the game on the defensive end.

[ScoobyDoo]

100% agree with you RajonRondo9dime - tank or not - you simply cannot let LeBron waltz around the court unmolested when he's unconscious.

I just watched the game tape - we did not give LeBron even ONE hard foul all game - NOT ONE.

Meanwhile, I saw LeBron absolutely clobber Brandon Bass on a put back. I did not think is was anywhere near a flagrant by LeBron but it was a wind up hard swing, very hard physical foul under the basket. I can tell you one thing, Brandon Bass was looking around afterward to see who it was that hit him like that. You don't think that stayed in the back of Bass' head?

Also, I saw Marquis Daniels give Wade a good hard foul when he got taken on a  pump fake on the baseline. In the 3rd Stiemsma had a great opportunity to meet LeBron mid air on the break and just kept back up as LeBron steamrolled to the basket - Steamer fouled him anyway, a little slap at the ball as LeBron put up another "and one". Ridiculous, either roll let the score or make sure he doesn't...

You who was a master of the hard foul? James Posey, brilliant at it. He'd foul you hard and then kind of stumble like he was off balance and pull you and poke you a little continuing the "introduction" to the player on fire. Genius. He knew how to draw the perfect line between hard foul and borderline flagrant - yet rarely if ever got called for a flagrant. But he was always completely under the guy's skin. Beautiful

We have no one that is doing that now. Avery Bradley is the closest and the reason is that he is going to get so angry that he's getting torched that he's going to get so far up into someone that he'll either get a couple quick ones denying the guy and he'll put him on the floor one time and just take the hard foul.

Anyway, we do ultimately have to beat them with "better" basketball, but I'm a firm believer you just can't let someone waltz around shooting 70% on you.

Rake his arms, hammer him in the lane. LeBron's a tank, true, but everyone has a mind - and we went out of way in game six trying to "not" get into his head - and just let him run around untouched.

Meanwhile, Miami was dishing out their share of hard fouls...
     

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Guys this is basketball not hockey.
You don't send out a goon to physically
intimidate/incapacitate a player in basketball.

Ever hear of a guy named Ron Artest...about Haslem.....what do you think THIERR job REALLY is....?

[Celtics18]

Guys this is basketball not hockey.
You don't send out a goon to physically
intimidate/incapacitate a player in basketball.

Ever hear of a guy named Ron Artest...about Haslem.....what do you think THIERR job REALLY is....?

Those guys are goons.  The Celtics don't have a designated goon.  Personally, I like it that way.  I say play hard, fight, but play it clean. 

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Well..you actually do need one.....unless you have maybe Tony Allen....no one would hard foul him...i know why.....but you cannot keep letting you guys get hit like that, by those types...."oh they are bad guys" ya, you can say that while you are watching next round be played...like we had to do after ron artest and kobe took out perk, rondo, and ray...well, we didn't watch anything after that....but it still happened unchallenged..the meek will inherit MORE PAIN....! Basketball is not made for the meek....it is a gladiator sport, and there are many ways to deal with these tpyes...but doc doesn't have the fortitude to make it happen....still, close body contact is clean, and keeps lebron types from open lanes, and dunks....!