2012 CB Historical Draft Board (New News, Check It Out)

[Kane3387]

But that wasn't all Paul Pierce's fault either, Kane.

I've seen some past references to that (Paul being the harbinger of doom), and it baffles me.

If a team is THAT talented, any upset like that lies squarely at the Coaching Staff's feet.

And thus, George Karl (though a FINE coach) has not coached the Olympics since.

Well that isn't really a surprise. I think most guys (Karl, Baron Davis, Pierce) were all pretty much shown the door from international play after that. That's how embarrassing it was.

Look I love Pierce and I think he was great in 2002, but Rondo makes great points also. I also think one of the greatest things 2008 Pierce did too was sacrifice individual glory for the team. All the critics thought Pierce couldn't do this and he did it great. He really became the Captain that year in my opinion. Also he was no slouch. The game against LeBron in Game 7 was amazing. And after that he dominated Detroit and Kobe (the MVP).

[Fafnir]

But that wasn't all Paul Pierce's fault either, Kane.

I've seen some past references to that (Paul being the harbinger of doom), and it baffles me.

If a team is THAT talented, any upset like that lies squarely at the Coaching Staff's feet.

And thus, George Karl (though a FINE coach) has not coached the Olympics since.

George Karl did a horrible job coaching that team, though there was plenty of blame to go around.

Definitely full on spin mode for Karl to try and blame the players for that overall disaster.

[GreenFaith1819]

But that wasn't all Paul Pierce's fault either, Kane.

I've seen some past references to that (Paul being the harbinger of doom), and it baffles me.

If a team is THAT talented, any upset like that lies squarely at the Coaching Staff's feet.

And thus, George Karl (though a FINE coach) has not coached the Olympics since.

Well that isn't really a surprise. I think most guys (Karl, Baron Davis, Pierce) were all pretty much shown the door from international play after that. That's how embarrassing it was.

Look I love Pierce and I think he was great in 2002, but Rondo makes great points also. I also think one of the greatest things 2008 Pierce did too was sacrifice individual glory for the team. All the critics thought Pierce couldn't do this and he did it great. He really became the Captain that year in my opinion. Also he was no slouch. The game against LeBron in Game 7 was amazing. And after that he dominated Detroit and Kobe (the MVP).

Good points - especially your second para.

But the early 2000's Paul out up HUGE numbers...Basketball-reference has him listed basically stuffing EVERY stat...blocking nearly 1 shot...grabbing roughly 7 rebs...scoring around 26-27 pts...4-5 assists...1-2 stls....kid did it ALL...I'd put those numbers up against anyone.

And he alternated from the SF to SG spots?

It is truly a shame that Paul Pierce had to languish those early years in BOS. It would be interesting to see how he'd fit in if he played with more weapons.

[Rondo2287]

But that wasn't all Paul Pierce's fault either, Kane.

I've seen some past references to that (Paul being the harbinger of doom), and it baffles me.

If a team is THAT talented, any upset like that lies squarely at the Coaching Staff's feet.

And thus, George Karl (though a FINE coach) has not coached the Olympics since.

Well that isn't really a surprise. I think most guys (Karl, Baron Davis, Pierce) were all pretty much shown the door from international play after that. That's how embarrassing it was.

Look I love Pierce and I think he was great in 2002, but Rondo makes great points also. I also think one of the greatest things 2008 Pierce did too was sacrifice individual glory for the team. All the critics thought Pierce couldn't do this and he did it great. He really became the Captain that year in my opinion. Also he was no slouch. The game against LeBron in Game 7 was amazing. And after that he dominated Detroit and Kobe (the MVP).

This is exactly why I think the 07-08 pierce is the way to go for the point that Kane mentioned.  

1. He was a leader on and off the court
2. He deferred when he had to and took over games when he had to
3. He bought into his teamates and his coach

In a format like this where each team is going to have great players, having a guy like the 07-08 Pierce who can buy into his role, defer and take over games is incredibly more valuable than a player like the 02 pierce.

[GreenFaith1819]

I can only guess Moranis' strategy with his team, but I'd be comfortable with a "Big Three" of Mailman, DRose, and Paul in this format.

It will be interesting to see how he fills out his team, but THAT is a fine core.

That 2008 Paul won the title, but still not many players put up those numbers like Paul did in 2002.

It all depends on how Moranis wants to construct his team. But he has some nice options so far.

Just checked BBall Ref....the guy shot 40% from deep for his 1st 4 yrs, too

Can ANY player boast those stats?

[Moranis]

That 2002 US team wasn't exactly an elite collection of talent.  I mean seriously, have you seen that roster?  By far the worst US team put together since the pros started playing and it isn't close.  Should they have performed better, probably, but they had 2 weeks to prepare and it wasn't exactly a well constructed team (and they lost to Yugoslavia, Argentina, and Spain, not exactly scrub teams).  Very limited interior scoring, not exactly pass first PG's, and no real superstars (Reggie was the closest thing at that time).  

[Moranis]

But that wasn't all Paul Pierce's fault either, Kane.

I've seen some past references to that (Paul being the harbinger of doom), and it baffles me.

If a team is THAT talented, any upset like that lies squarely at the Coaching Staff's feet.

And thus, George Karl (though a FINE coach) has not coached the Olympics since.

Well that isn't really a surprise. I think most guys (Karl, Baron Davis, Pierce) were all pretty much shown the door from international play after that. That's how embarrassing it was.

Look I love Pierce and I think he was great in 2002, but Rondo makes great points also. I also think one of the greatest things 2008 Pierce did too was sacrifice individual glory for the team. All the critics thought Pierce couldn't do this and he did it great. He really became the Captain that year in my opinion. Also he was no slouch. The game against LeBron in Game 7 was amazing. And after that he dominated Detroit and Kobe (the MVP).

This is exactly why I think the 07-08 pierce is the way to go for the point that Kane mentioned.  

1. He was a leader on and off the court
2. He deferred when he had to and took over games when he had to
3. He bought into his teamates and his coach

In a format like this where each team is going to have great players, having a guy like the 07-08 Pierce who can buy into his role, defer and take over games is incredibly more valuable than a player like the 02 pierce.

He met those three requirements in 2001-2002.  He was a leader of that team, he loved O'Brien and bought in, and he deferred to Toine when necessary.  I really think you are letting what happened in the mid-2000's cloud your memory of the early 2000's Pierce.

[Rondo2287]

I can only guess Moranis' strategy with his team, but I'd be comfortable with a "Big Three" of Mailman, DRose, and Paul in this format.

It will be interesting to see how he fills out his team, but THAT is a fine core.

That 2008 Paul won the title, but still not many players put up those numbers like Paul did in 2002.

It all depends on how Moranis wants to construct his team. But he has some nice options so far.

Just checked BBall Ref....the guy shot 40% from deep for his 1st 4 yrs, too

Can ANY player boast those stats?

My only issues are that of those top 3 players he doesnt have any that managed to win a title,(assuming 02 Pierce) and that he has 3 players used to being the clear cut number 1 scoring options on their teams who now have to adapt.  

[StartOrien]

Good news guys, I figured out who I want this round.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Just to join in. I thought the 02 Pierce is an elite scorer and a solid defender. Not that he was in 07-08 but the 02 was more aggressive (well of course because he's younger).

I'd take the 02 Pierce any day.

[Rondo2287]

on a side note, my boss told me this morning that he thought he broke Pierce's toe on saturday night.  Said he was at a restaurant downtown and went to the bathroom, he pushed open the door just as pierce was pulling it to walk out and the door hit pierce in his right foot and pierce was actually visably in pain for a couple of seconds.

My boss apologized and pierce said he was fine, but dang that could have been bad.

[Fafnir]

I can only guess Moranis' strategy with his team, but I'd be comfortable with a "Big Three" of Mailman, DRose, and Paul in this format.

It will be interesting to see how he fills out his team, but THAT is a fine core.

That 2008 Paul won the title, but still not many players put up those numbers like Paul did in 2002.

It all depends on how Moranis wants to construct his team. But he has some nice options so far.

Just checked BBall Ref....the guy shot 40% from deep for his 1st 4 yrs, too

Can ANY player boast those stats?

My only issues are that of those top 3 players he doesnt have any that managed to win a title,(assuming 02 Pierce) and that he has 3 players used to being the clear cut number 1 scoring options on their teams who now have to adapt.  

I don't think winning a title makes a player any better.

Dirk still got swept this year after all.

I'm also skeptical of taking worst versions of various players so they "fit" better around the best players on the team in their prime.

[StartOrien]

Just to join in. I thought the 02 Pierce is an elite scorer and a solid defender. Not that he was in 07-08 but the 02 was more aggressive (well of course because he's younger).

I'd take the 02 Pierce any day.

They are, kind of two different players. I think the final decision depends on who his pairing is at the other wing.

There's a 2 I have in mind that'd be perfect next to Rose and Pierce.

[GreenFaith1819]

I can only guess Moranis' strategy with his team, but I'd be comfortable with a "Big Three" of Mailman, DRose, and Paul in this format.

It will be interesting to see how he fills out his team, but THAT is a fine core.

That 2008 Paul won the title, but still not many players put up those numbers like Paul did in 2002.

It all depends on how Moranis wants to construct his team. But he has some nice options so far.

Just checked BBall Ref....the guy shot 40% from deep for his 1st 4 yrs, too

Can ANY player boast those stats?

My only issues are that of those top 3 players he doesnt have any that managed to win a title,(assuming 02 Pierce) and that he has 3 players used to being the clear cut number 1 scoring options on their teams who now have to adapt.  

But see - that's what makes these Historical Drafts SO FUN....can you REALLY imagine Karl Malone Prime and Paul Pierce 2000 walking through a time warp heading to CHI...

I'm pretty sure that Derrick says "Ok, fellas...I'll shoot a LITTLE less now that YOU TWO are here.

Derrick would adapt...just watching him play so far I'm sure he would. He'd sacrifice a bit.

[Kane3387]

I can only guess Moranis' strategy with his team, but I'd be comfortable with a "Big Three" of Mailman, DRose, and Paul in this format.

It will be interesting to see how he fills out his team, but THAT is a fine core.

That 2008 Paul won the title, but still not many players put up those numbers like Paul did in 2002.

It all depends on how Moranis wants to construct his team. But he has some nice options so far.

Just checked BBall Ref....the guy shot 40% from deep for his 1st 4 yrs, too

Can ANY player boast those stats?

My only issues are that of those top 3 players he doesnt have any that managed to win a title,(assuming 02 Pierce) and that he has 3 players used to being the clear cut number 1 scoring options on their teams who now have to adapt.  

Yeah 2002 Pierce had a lot more opportunities to kill the stat sheet. More minutes and shots. Still he was phenomenal. No one is debating that, but I think the championship aspect to the argument is a big aspect when people start debating their teams.