Question

[Diggles]

With 14.4 Seconds left and 8 seconds on the shot clock down by one, why did Doc tell Rondo to foul?  Why not play good D and defend and have 6 seconds to be down by one, or 3.  Then try and get a shot off with 6 seconds left or try and hit a 3?

I did not understand the logic.  Because we/they had a foul to give, and all it did was reset the shot clock to 14 seconds.  That was a huge error in IMO. 

Can anyone please tell me if I'm wrong. Thanks

Diggles

[indeedproceed]

With 14.4 Seconds left and 8 seconds on the shot clock down by one, why did Doc tell Rondo to foul?  Why not play good D and defend and have 6 seconds to be down by one, or 3.  Then try and get a shot off with 6 seconds left or try and hit a 3?

I did not understand the logic.  Because we/they had a foul to give, and all it did was reset the shot clock to 14 seconds.  That was a huge error in IMO. 

Can anyone please tell me if I'm wrong. Thanks

Diggles

I didn't get why he didn't foul at 14 or 13 either.

[apc]

Clearly a bad call by doc.
maybe he wanted an earlier foul ? I don’t know.
but you are not the only one asking that question.

[CelticG1]

There wasn't 6 sec difference but a 4sec.

They should have fouled right away but it was a coaching error. Also difficult because ray didn't wait till the last second to shoot so while philly rebounded and ran up the court doc had to process what the time difference was,  that we still had a foul to give and weigh his options.

Its a tough call to make I think. The mistake was not fouling off the rebound. They had that foul to give and ot would have bought a minute for Doc to think about what to do and obviously if they did foul again they would have has more time on the clock as well(at least 20 sec compared to 11)

[LooseCannon]

The 76ers had a foul to give, so getting the ball back with 4 seconds and drawing a non-shooting foul puts the Celtics in a position where they may need to catch-and-shoot on an inbounds play with maybe 1-2 seconds on the clock.

When the Celtics burn the foul to give, you have to leave enough time in case the 76ers are able to run 5 seconds off the clock avoiding that foul, such as an attempt to duplicate Rondo's run into the backcourt from Game 1. 

I also don't think it is a bad idea to give the 76ers a chance to make a mental mistake and rush a shot while hopped up on adrenaline, fouling only when it became clear they would hold the ball for the entire shot clock.

[CelticG1]

The 76ers had a foul to give, so getting the ball back with 4 seconds and drawing a non-shooting foul puts the Celtics in a position where they may need to catch-and-shoot on an inbounds play with maybe 1-2 seconds on the clock.

When the Celtics burn the foul to give, you have to leave enough time in case the 76ers are able to run 5 seconds off the clock avoiding that foul, such as an attempt to duplicate Rondo's run into the backcourt from Game 1. 

I also don't think it is a bad idea to give the 76ers a chance to make a mental mistake and rush a shot while hopped up on adrenaline, fouling only when it became clear they would hold the ball for the entire shot clock.

The main question is why didn't we foul at the 26-27 mark instead of the 11(which brought it to 14).

The 76'ers were not going to rush the shot. They already waited till 10 on the clock dribbling at the top of the circle.  Not to mention that's what they do on pretty much every possession

[Diggles]

I agree you foul right then, but it was a waste to foul with the clock at 14 seconds.  There was 5 seconds or so for us to play with.  At least a shot to play D and steal the game with 4/5 seconds left.  I guess we could pick this apart.  

I was dying when that happened.  

[Diggles]

The 76ers had a foul to give, so getting the ball back with 4 seconds and drawing a non-shooting foul puts the Celtics in a position where they may need to catch-and-shoot on an inbounds play with maybe 1-2 seconds on the clock.

When the Celtics burn the foul to give, you have to leave enough time in case the 76ers are able to run 5 seconds off the clock avoiding that foul, such as an attempt to duplicate Rondo's run into the backcourt from Game 1. 

I also don't think it is a bad idea to give the 76ers a chance to make a mental mistake and rush a shot while hopped up on adrenaline, fouling only when it became clear they would hold the ball for the entire shot clock.

The main question is why didn't we foul at the 26-27 mark instead of the 11(which brought it to 14).

The 76'ers were not going to rush the shot. They already waited till 10 on the clock dribbling at the top of the circle.  Not to mention that's what they do on pretty much every possession

I agree or not foul at all!  Get a stop and steal the game!

[Celtics18]

It was the right call.  The Celtics wouldn't have had time to get a good play off if they had just played D and banked on a stop and a rebound.  There was only a four second difference on the shot and game clock.  If the Sixers get a shot right before the shot clock expires, then there's very little margin for error.  By the time the ball caroms off and we secure the ball and get a timeout, there could easily be less than two seconds left on the clock. 

Doc had to call for us to foul and send them to the line to give us a chance.

[Kane3387]

In my opinion Doc hesitated. I think at first he wanted to play the clock out, but then reconsidered. I think it was smart to do so.

Philly was killing us on the glass. One Offensive rebound and were done.
Philly had been missing free throws and possibly could have choked one away at the line. They are young and the moment might have been too big for most of their guys.
Worse case scenario (most likely) is that Philly hits both and were down three with 10 + seconds to tie the game.
With Pierce being hurt it didn't make sense to try to do an isolation play with at best 4 seconds left to play.

I thought we should have fouled right after they rebounded the Ray Allen miss. I think Doc would do this too if he could do it over again, but I think he hesitated because of how much pride he has in this team's defense.

[byennie]

Doc made the right call, and Rondo got the message about 3-4 seconds too late, is what I saw. The correct play, I believe, is to foul with 14 (or 15 to be safe) seconds on the SHOT CLOCK. That way you don't lose any time on the game clock, but also force the opponent to inbound the ball. Now you can pressure the heck out of them for 14 seconds without watching the clock, and know that you will get the ball back. The odds are pretty good that you will get a stop. Putting them on the line says to me you are playing for overtime, because you are going to need at least a 2 and maybe a 3 just to tie. I'd much rather have less time and be down by 1. Now any shot on the court can win the game.

[blink]

The problem with this is that it doesn't guarantee you even get the ball back.  With our rebounding problems, there is always a good chance the sixers find a way to get the ball and we never get a chance to do anything. 

I think we should have fouled immediately, make them shoot free throws and extend the game.  We are behind, and there just isn't enough time to get get a decent shot.  In these situations for you to give yourself any shot, you have to extend the game.

Doc made the right call, and Rondo got the message about 3-4 seconds too late, is what I saw. The correct play, I believe, is to foul with 14 (or 15 to be safe) seconds on the SHOT CLOCK. That way you don't lose any time on the game clock, but also force the opponent to inbound the ball. Now you can pressure the heck out of them for 14 seconds without watching the clock, and know that you will get the ball back. The odds are pretty good that you will get a stop. Putting them on the line says to me you are playing for overtime, because you are going to need at least a 2 and maybe a 3 just to tie. I'd much rather have less time and be down by 1. Now any shot on the court can win the game.

[mctyson]

With 14.4 Seconds left and 8 seconds on the shot clock down by one, why did Doc tell Rondo to foul?  Why not play good D and defend and have 6 seconds to be down by one, or 3.  Then try and get a shot off with 6 seconds left or try and hit a 3?

I did not understand the logic.  Because we/they had a foul to give, and all it did was reset the shot clock to 14 seconds.  That was a huge error in IMO. 

Can anyone please tell me if I'm wrong. Thanks

Diggles

You are not wrong.  There are two options in that situation:

1) Foul immediately, twice, and send Philly to the line.

2) Play defense, hope they miss the shot, rebound, timeout, and a few seconds for a game winner

Instead Doc totally biffed that scenario.  Let the clock run off 9 secs, then foul, then foul again.  We should have at least had 5-8 more seconds.  Granted we'd still be down 4, but at that point you are talking 15 secs or so.  You get the quick 3...down by 1, foul again, maybe they make both, maybe they miss.

It was the right call to foul, as the difference in the shot and game clock was around 4 seconds, and Philly had a foul to give.  We wouldn't have gotten a quality look at the basket, outside of a lob.

But if we had fouled earlier...you never know.

[BballTim]

With 14.4 Seconds left and 8 seconds on the shot clock down by one, why did Doc tell Rondo to foul?  Why not play good D and defend and have 6 seconds to be down by one, or 3.  Then try and get a shot off with 6 seconds left or try and hit a 3?

I did not understand the logic.  Because we/they had a foul to give, and all it did was reset the shot clock to 14 seconds.  That was a huge error in IMO. 

Can anyone please tell me if I'm wrong. Thanks

Diggles

You are not wrong.  There are two options in that situation:

1) Foul immediately, twice, and send Philly to the line.

2) Play defense, hope they miss the shot, rebound, timeout, and a few seconds for a game winner

Instead Doc totally biffed that scenario.  Let the clock run off 9 secs, then foul, then foul again.  We should have at least had 5-8 more seconds.  Granted we'd still be down 4, but at that point you are talking 15 secs or so.  You get the quick 3...down by 1, foul again, maybe they make both, maybe they miss.

It was the right call to foul, as the difference in the shot and game clock was around 4 seconds, and Philly had a foul to give.  We wouldn't have gotten a quality look at the basket, outside of a lob.

But if we had fouled earlier...you never know.

  If they foul right away, there's no real time penalty, correct? So foul immediately (foul to give) and try and try and defend the inbounds play (Philly had just had an inbounds violation). After that, defend and try and get a steal or put them on the line with more than 12 seconds on the clock.