Doc : "Ryan Hollins with KG on floor, our best defensive team."

[Senninsage]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4693367/pregame-pierce-playing-through-pain

* Rivers on using more Ryan Hollins than rookie Greg Stiemsma at center in recent games: "(Hollins) is playing better; It’s a competition. Always. And Ryan is playing terrific for us. Ryan’s minutes, on the floor with Kevin, are unbelievable. When you put him and Kevin on the floor at the same time, that’s our best defensive team. That’s good for us."


Doc isn't just talking out of his rear end here. I see it, too. I've been seeing it since the game against the Hawks in the regular season where we rested so many of our stars. Hollins's aggressiveness is off putting.

He's nowhere the shot blocker that Stiemsa is, but he's a much better on instinctive defender and post defender. He has better footwork, and you can clearly see how his presence out there is much more intimidating than Stiemsa's, and it bothers the other team's players a great deal.

Sometimes basketball is mental. As good as Stiemsa is for this team, and certainly he should continue to be a huge part of our team, and get decent playing time, because he has earned it, but teams don't fear or respect him as much defensively as they should, nor are they as bothered by his presence on the floor as they are by Hollins' presence. It isn't just by putting stats up on a box score that you can affect a game. If I had to properly describe Hollins, he's doing for us right now what Shawn Marion did for the Mavericks in last year's playoffs, only without the points, and without nearly as many minutes, hence less impressive stats. He's not defending the other team's best player, but what he's doing is playing some very key defensive minutes for us where he is effective in ways that are really disrupting the offense of a lot of teams. This guy has been one of the bright spots for us in the playoffs so far.

[mctyson]

They are different types of players.  Hollins is clearly more athletic and gives more energy, thus he can defend the pick and roll better.  Stiemer is almost an automatic foul when he switches on anyone who can take him off the dribble.  Hollins is also a more active rebounder, though I think both of them do a decent job on the boards when given the chance.

The difference is really on the offensive end.  Hollins can run the break and dunk, but that's it.  He's is ridiculously goofy with the ball in his hands around the basket.  He is almost an automatic turnover.  Stiemer is much more polished with the ball, is a superior passer, and of course a much better shooter.

I think we lose too much offensively with Hollins on the floor.  I can see where he matches up well, like against Atlanta, where no matter who was on the floor it seemed like both teams were laying bricks all series.  But when we play a team that can score against us (*cough* Miami *cough) we need offense at every position and Stiemer is better, without too much of a drop off on defense.

[j804]

I agree with you except for the last part he's nowhere close to what Shawn Marion is but he is playing well lets see if he can keep it up

[Eddie20]

When you put him and Kevin on the floor at the same time, that’s our best defensive team. That’s good for us.

Did Doc come up with that conclusion after the failed Daniels on Horford experiment? 

[rickyfan3.0...]

Agree. Twin towers.

[bruinsandceltics]

I'm lost. I can't understand what people see in this guy.

I literally can't think of a worse player on any of the teams left in the playoffs. 

[Senninsage]

I'm lost. I can't understand what people see in this guy.

I literally can't think of a worse player on any of the teams left in the playoffs. 

If you really say this, and believe it, then I'm afraid that you don't understand that there are many ways outside of the more immediately obvious to impact a basketball game in a positive way.

I don't pretend I'm an amazing basketball player, but I do consider myself a good basketball player with a great understanding of the game. I'm often able to take the players on a basketball court that nobody wants to play with, and surprisingly manage to compete with and beat teams with supposedly far more talented players.

I always say the same thing. Because you're too focused on being down on the guy for what he can't do, you are not allowing yourself to see what he can, and has been doing exceedingly well for the team in this first round playoff series.

[bruinsandceltics]

I'm lost. I can't understand what people see in this guy.

I literally can't think of a worse player on any of the teams left in the playoffs. 

If you really say this, and believe it, then I'm afraid that you don't understand that there are many ways outside of the more immediately obvious to impact a basketball game in a positive way.

I don't pretend I'm an amazing basketball player, but I do consider myself a good basketball player with a great understanding of the game. I'm often able to take the players on a basketball court that nobody wants to play with, and surprisingly manage to compete with and beat teams with supposedly far more talented players.

I always say the same thing. Because you're too focused on being down on the guy for what he can't do, you are not allowing yourself to see what he can, and has been doing exceedingly well for the team in this first round playoff series.

First, I don't care about your basketball skill or your game. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

Second, There is a reason to focus on what he can't do and that is because it out weighs heavily on what he can do. He is one of the worst rebounders I have ever seen play the game. Yet he is now getting credit for "trying hard" to get rebounds? Seriously? This is the NBA, trying hard doesn't get you wins.

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

But hey, you know what he jumped real high on his missed dunk attempt yesterday. LET'S HAVE A PARTY for that effort.

[Fafnir]

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

He's been better than Brandon/Greg on defense when paired with KG. He's also done the best job of keeping Horford from dominating the C's on the glass, despite his own poor rebounding numbers.

This is the playoffs and how you're playing right now is what matters.

[Yogi]

I'm lost. I can't understand what people see in this guy.

I literally can't think of a worse player on any of the teams left in the playoffs. 

If you really say this, and believe it, then I'm afraid that you don't understand that there are many ways outside of the more immediately obvious to impact a basketball game in a positive way.

I don't pretend I'm an amazing basketball player, but I do consider myself a good basketball player with a great understanding of the game. I'm often able to take the players on a basketball court that nobody wants to play with, and surprisingly manage to compete with and beat teams with supposedly far more talented players.

I always say the same thing. Because you're too focused on being down on the guy for what he can't do, you are not allowing yourself to see what he can, and has been doing exceedingly well for the team in this first round playoff series.

First, I don't care about your basketball skill or your game. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

Second, There is a reason to focus on what he can't do and that is because it out weighs heavily on what he can do. He is one of the worst rebounders I have ever seen play the game. Yet he is now getting credit for "trying hard" to get rebounds? Seriously? This is the NBA, trying hard doesn't get you wins.

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

But hey, you know what he jumped real high on his missed dunk attempt yesterday. LET'S HAVE A PARTY for that effort.

He had a huge offensive rebound that helped us put the series away.  He's in no way worse than Jason Collins or Eric Dampier.  How about all the alley-oops and block shots that he had in the series?  not too shabby for a third string center behind KG and Stiemsma if you ask me.  By the way, Avery Bradley and Josh Smith have the edge over Hollins in missed dunks.  What hasty conclusions do you draw from that?

[RyNye]

First, I don't care about your basketball skill or your game. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

So how good someone is at basketball is irrelevant to a discussion about how good someone is at basketball?

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

Look at the stats. The Hollins + KG front-court is our best defensive duo (gives up 80 points per 100 possessions). Better than Bass + KG, better than Stiemsma + KG. By a large margin, too. You can argue that Stiemsma is being hampered by lack of playing time and injury and his numbers will get better, but at the moment that's the way it is. You choosing to ignore this is not our problem.

[bruinsandceltics]

I'm lost. I can't understand what people see in this guy.

I literally can't think of a worse player on any of the teams left in the playoffs. 

If you really say this, and believe it, then I'm afraid that you don't understand that there are many ways outside of the more immediately obvious to impact a basketball game in a positive way.

I don't pretend I'm an amazing basketball player, but I do consider myself a good basketball player with a great understanding of the game. I'm often able to take the players on a basketball court that nobody wants to play with, and surprisingly manage to compete with and beat teams with supposedly far more talented players.

I always say the same thing. Because you're too focused on being down on the guy for what he can't do, you are not allowing yourself to see what he can, and has been doing exceedingly well for the team in this first round playoff series.

First, I don't care about your basketball skill or your game. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

Second, There is a reason to focus on what he can't do and that is because it out weighs heavily on what he can do. He is one of the worst rebounders I have ever seen play the game. Yet he is now getting credit for "trying hard" to get rebounds? Seriously? This is the NBA, trying hard doesn't get you wins.

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

But hey, you know what he jumped real high on his missed dunk attempt yesterday. LET'S HAVE A PARTY for that effort.

He had a huge offensive rebound that helped us put the series away.  He's in no way worse than Jason Collins or Eric Dampier.  How about all the alley-oops and block shots that he had in the series?  not too shabby for a third string center behind KG and Stiemsma if you ask me.  By the way, Avery Bradley and Josh Smith have the edge over Hollins in missed dunks.  What hasty conclusions do you draw from that?

He had 7 points the entire series and 3 blocks the entire series.

[bruinsandceltics]

First, I don't care about your basketball skill or your game. It is irrelevant to the discussion.

So how good someone is at basketball is irrelevant to a discussion about how good someone is at basketball?

Lastly, Ryan Hollins hasn't done anything exceedingly well. To say he has is just a flat out lie.

Look at the stats. The Hollins + KG front-court is our best defensive duo (gives up 80 points per 100 possessions). Better than Bass + KG, better than Stiemsma + KG. By a large margin, too. You can argue that Stiemsma is being hampered by lack of playing time and injury and his numbers will get better, but at the moment that's the way it is. You choosing to ignore this is not our problem.

How good he is as basketball is absolutely irrelevant to discussing how good Ryan Hollins is as basketball.

So we can only look at the defensive stats when Hollins are in too? I find it pretty funny how almost every time Hollins got extended playing time in this series our lead shrunk. And I'll ignore game 4 because of the blowout.

[Eja117]

When he says Hollins is playing better that might be true. I kinda think Greg is banged up

[Senninsage]

People look at the silliest things sometimes. Stop looking at points and blocked shots, or even just the rebounds.

Does the rebounds show you who had a great box out to allow that guy to get the rebound? Does the stat show you the amazing boxout that Hollins had late in the game to prevent the Hawks from getting another possession, and that allowed us another much needed offensive possession? What if the Hawks had gotten the ball back, and Hollins didn't successfully box out?

And this argument that everytime Hollins comes in, our lead goes down, a lot of the time that isn't even his fault. This wasn't even true in game 2, a very important game for us, where he ended up +5. Is it his fault that other guys gamble defensively, leaving a three point shooter open? When I see Ryan Hollins on the court, and he comes out on a defensive rotation, it's usually so [dang] aggressive and good, and you can tell it's preventing them from running their offense the way they'd like to, and that's enough if it means we keep the Hawks from going off as much as they normally would while we score the ball. It's even more crucial if while we aren't scoring the ball at all, that he's creating problems for them to run their offense.

When Hollins is out there, teams usually take the shots we want them to take. That's what I'm noticing.