Revisiting the Rondo-for-CP3 discussions (poll)

[BballTim]

Do you think having Ray Allen, arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history, was part of the reason?

Or maybe Pierce and Garnett have to take less difficult shots and a lower volume of shots now that they play with each other?

You seem to be greatly discounting the value of three Hall of Fame players and three of the great shooters in history at their positions.

  Sorry, did PP just start playing with Ray in 2010?

  You seem to be keenly aware that Rondo's shooting has a negative effect on our spacing and makes it harder for the others to score. OTOH you seem to be completely unaware that Rondo's passing, vision, and the way he runs the offense gets all of the other players open shots on a regular basis.

[Celtics17]

Wow, from Rondo-Paul to Malone-Wallace. Malone was a great offensive player, Wallace a great defensive. Wallace was also a great defensive player. Depending on your team I might very well take an in his prime Wallace over Malone. Has anyone mentioned that Rondo gets triple doubles because this team needs his rebounding? What would Rondo look like if he didnt need have to get rebounds?

[indeedproceed]

Shocking that anyone, much less fans who seem to have some knowledge, would feel that Chris Paul is no better than Rondo.

No way the clippers win a playoff game without Chris Paul.

If we had Chris Paul, I would like our team a whole lot more.

Teams don't even cover Rondo. Just pause and think about that for a moment.  The last high level player you could say that about was Ben Wallace.  Ben Wallace had jaw dropping talents and put up huge numbers (like Rondo) but also like Rondo was not an elite player because of his weaknesses.  Ben Wallace was a fine player and made meaningful contributions to playoff teams, like Rondo.

To me, saying Rondo = Paul is the same as saying Wallace = Karl Malone.

At any rate, I hope Danny can find a GM that shares the high opinion of Rondo that some on CB seem to have.  Maybe the clippers will trade Paul to us for Rondo.

That comparison is pretty weak. Rajon Rondo is one of the NBA's best 2-way players, Ben Wallace was one of the NBA's best defenders only. Plus, completely different eras.

I do think that CP3 is the better player in a vacuum. Like Rondo's he's a prolific passer, elite defender, and a high level competitor, but he's a much more versatile scorer.

I think saying Rondo=Paul is like saying Bynum=Howard. Both players are elite for their position, and in the upper level of NBA players as a whole, but maybe not necessarily equivalent.

[Carhole]

Shocking that anyone, much less fans who seem to have some knowledge, would feel that Chris Paul is no better than Rondo.

No way the clippers win a playoff game without Chris Paul.

If we had Chris Paul, I would like our team a whole lot more.

Teams don't even cover Rondo. Just pause and think about that for a moment.  The last high level player you could say that about was Ben Wallace.  Ben Wallace had jaw dropping talents and put up huge numbers (like Rondo) but also like Rondo was not an elite player because of his weaknesses.  Ben Wallace was a fine player and made meaningful contributions to playoff teams, like Rondo.

To me, saying Rondo = Paul is the same as saying Wallace = Karl Malone.

At any rate, I hope Danny can find a GM that shares the high opinion of Rondo that some on CB seem to have.  Maybe the clippers will trade Paul to us for Rondo.

Interesting and apt parallel, I think rondo is a "better" player for what he does than wallace but I can't give you enough tp's for the overall point.

[Carhole]

Do you think having Ray Allen, arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history, was part of the reason?

Or maybe Pierce and Garnett have to take less difficult shots and a lower volume of shots now that they play with each other?

You seem to be greatly discounting the value of three Hall of Fame players and three of the great shooters in history at their positions.

  Sorry, did PP just start playing with Ray in 2010?

  You seem to be keenly aware that Rondo's shooting has a negative effect on our spacing and makes it harder for the others to score. OTOH you seem to be completely unaware that Rondo's passing, vision, and the way he runs the offense gets all of the other players open shots on a regular basis.

Pierces biggest jump in efficiency came when doc took over and installed a real offense not related to Rondo. He has been at that level since.

Rondo's vision and ball handling help improve players performance but so does the fact that Ray, PP and KG all came together - that kind of unselfish talent does as much for creating consistently efficient offense as does a pg with vision and no shot.

And as always if Rondo's vision, passing and the way he runs an offense is the key to this team scoring points......why does it all (the celtic's offense) fall apart in the last 4 minutes of basically every close game? Does his passing, vision and knowledge of the offense magically become worse? Or is it just a lot easier to minimize his strengths?

[Onslaught]

I'm not sold that Chris Paul would stay here. I'm also not sold on him staying healthy.

[indeedproceed]

I'm not sold that Chris Paul would stay here. I'm also not sold on him staying healthy.

Two very well-founded reservations.

[BballTim]

Do you think having Ray Allen, arguably the greatest shooter in NBA history, was part of the reason?

Or maybe Pierce and Garnett have to take less difficult shots and a lower volume of shots now that they play with each other?

You seem to be greatly discounting the value of three Hall of Fame players and three of the great shooters in history at their positions.

  Sorry, did PP just start playing with Ray in 2010?

  You seem to be keenly aware that Rondo's shooting has a negative effect on our spacing and makes it harder for the others to score. OTOH you seem to be completely unaware that Rondo's passing, vision, and the way he runs the offense gets all of the other players open shots on a regular basis.

Pierces biggest jump in efficiency came when doc took over and installed a real offense not related to Rondo. He has been at that level since.

Rondo's vision and ball handling help improve players performance but so does the fact that Ray, PP and KG all came together - that kind of unselfish talent does as much for creating consistently efficient offense as does a pg with vision and no shot.

And as always if Rondo's vision, passing and the way he runs an offense is the key to this team scoring points......why does it all (the celtic's offense) fall apart in the last 4 minutes of basically every close game? Does his passing, vision and knowledge of the offense magically become worse? Or is it just a lot easier to minimize his strengths?

  PP's jump from 08-09 to 09-10 was greater than his jump after the big three came together. Clearly his numbers have been better over the last few years with Rondo handling the ball more. And, aside from slowing the pace late in games, I'd guess that we lose Rondo's passing, vision and knowledge when the offense flows through PP. All of the big three are on the court for those late game struggles, maybe how we fare is an indication of their contribution to the offense compared to Rondo's.

[mctyson]

As Bill Simmons has said, Chris Paul is a top 10 All NBA player, probably the best PG alive right now, and maybe has a chance to be an MVP someday.

I am a gigantic Rondo fan. He will probably never be a top 10 NBA player (he's close though.)  As long as Paul and D-Rose are alive, he won't get the credit for best PG.  And I'd bet my life savings he'll never be an MVP.

Glad he's on my team though.

[BballTim]

Teams don't even cover Rondo. Just pause and think about that for a moment.

  I'll just throw this out there for anyone who watched the game, but every time Rondo has the ball there's a guard from the Hawks standing a few feet closer to the basket from Rajon, facing him and moving to stay in front of him whichever way he goes. This isn't really the coincidence many think it is, but it's actually a player *guarding* Rondo. Just like other teams do, just like the Hawks did in the last game, just like they will in the next game. Sometimes it's Hinrich, sometimes it's Teague, sometimes it's Pargo and it was even Johnson on a few possessions.

[BASS_THUMPER]

feeling rondo and how he has stepped up during the playoffs

jumper is falling, assists up, my boy got wheels etc..
he does so much that no one will be able to figure him out

right now he is better than chris paul

[Celtics18]

That was an epic performance by Rondo tonight.  I don't know where it ranks among his greatest performances, but it was right near the top.

Wow!!