Avery Bradley will be the next Russell Westbrook

[arctic 3.0]

Yeah, sounds like some of the early haters are still stingy with their praise of Bradley.

First he was a decent defender but nothing else.
Then he was a great defender but not even nba caliber over-all. Then he was a decent shooter and great defender but a terrible ball handler and over-all below average player.
Then he was a decent shooter and smart offensive player and great defender, but a terrible ball handler who would only be a spot up shooter the rest of his career, and should be traded for a mid-first round pick.
Then he was an excellent shooter and excellent defender but a terrible ball handler who probably has already reached his peak.
Then he was an excellent shooter, decent ball handler, great cutter, good at driving to the hoop, and a decent defender who only averaged 20 points a game as soon as he got the green light from Doc.

Now he's an excellent shooter, excellent defender, excellent cutter, smart passer, great one-on-one player, and scored 28 points against a play-off team in his first game as go-to scorer, and we'll be extremely lucky if his long-term potential eventually comes close to approximating that of Jason Terry.

 

Ive noticed a trend.

People dont want Celtics players to be great, and like devaluing them for some reason.

For example Avery Bradley is recently showing he has star potential, we have one side of the forums saying "yes, hes going to be great", and the other side saying "no he wont be, he is what he is and hes flawed"

Why cant we all as Celtics fans enjoy the fact that we have a young 21 year old stud with potential and all embrace him.

Knick fans see Jeremy Lin on a roll, and they claim hes incredible, Bradley has been on a roll ever since he got the starting job, and Celtics fans are quick to dismiss him. I dont get it.

Shouldnt we all be hyping him up since were all fans on this team?

Just an overall Cynical and Negative feel from some of the posters here.

I'm going to let you both in on a little secret.  It's going to save you a lot of anguish arguing with people on internet sports forums.  Step with me behind the curtain for a second...

EVERYONE on this forum secretly wants Avery Bradley to surpass Michael Jordan and end up the greatest player of all time.  Show me a member of this forum who doesn't secretly want Bradley to turn into a basketball god and I'll bet money on that fan being an undercover Laker troll.  You think the "haters" are all "stingy" that Bradley is doing well?... come on.  Don't forget who you are talking to.  This is a Celtic forum.  They are ecstatic.  I'd bet money that most of these "haters" are having discussions with their non-Celtic friends... tentatively singing some praises for Bradley... and having large chunks of ice tossed on them "Look Steve, I'm not trying to be a homer here... but I'm telling you this Avery Bradley kid is actually playing pretty good.  Don't get me wrong... I'm just saying"... to which Steve laughs at him and tells him to get a grip.  Then that Celtic fan comes here and starts torturing you all with his party pooping.   

There's two drastic approaches from Celtics (and probably all sports) forum members.  You overreact and anoint every player who shows a sign of life as the next (INSERT FORMER/CURRENT LEGEND HERE) or you throw buckets of ice on everyone and temper the enthusiasm with a dose of "realism".  In general the people in "overreact" camp are genuinely delusional and don't know what the heck they are talking about. In general the people in the "pessimist" camp (myself, for example) are being less than honest on what they truly feel.  I might tell you Glen Davis is a "bum" while others are calling him the "next Barkley", but internally I'm going through the rollercoaster with the rest of ya... flipping out when he hits a big Shrek/Donkey shot in the playoffs and trying not to get overly out of touch in the excitement.   There's a middle ground that some fans are able to exist in...  but you're always going to have this huge clash of personalities and it's part of what makes the internet forum community wonderful and hilarious.  We can't all agree with each other... that would be boring.  Every thread would be 1 post long.  Kayak would stop paying for ad space. Lol.

Here's the other secret.  Those of us in the pessimist camp have probably been burned by the over excitement once or twice in the past.  I doubt you'll find someone tempering your enthusiasm on Bradley who doesn't have a "Brandon Hunter is the next Barkley" or "Orien Greene is the next Steve Nash" in their closet.  I temporarily thought Vin Baker was a good trade.  A couple of us thought Kedrick Brown was going to be a hall of famer.  Basically we're just trying to cover our bases and not look like a bunch of idiots.  To thestackshow, who said "Knick fans see Jeremy Lin on a roll, and they claim hes incredible, Bradley has been on a roll ever since he got the starting job, and Celtics fans are quick to dismiss him. I dont get it." ... you nailed it.  We don't want to look like a bunch of idiots... as Knicks fans did after collectively losing their minds over 11 games.   It's a different mentality and a different approach.  If Bradley ends up an undersized shooting guard who never reaches his Jason Terry potential...  Chaulk one up in the win column.  Message board victory.  If he ends up surpassing that Jason Terry ceiling and I'm wrong... even better.  It's a classic win/win scenario.  Nobody here actually wants him to be a bust.  I'm the self-anointed ringleader of the "full of crap reverse jinx bipolar" team.  Actually, that's probably Bill Simmons... but never mind that.   

Celtics are getting swept in the first round.  Bradley's hot shooting streak is over.  Poor man's midget Flip Murray.

You should have this post as your disclaimer. It makes me appreciate your other posts much more. TP for you

Nobody on this forum should take me seriously.  I once got bored and had an argument with myself until a mod stepped in, locked the thread and threatened to ban me:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=54953.msg1176997#msg1176997

I'm an idiot.  You're best off just ignoring me.

tp!

[OmarSekou]

Please tell me about Bradley's serious weaknesses. Or are you basing these "weaknesses" on the first half of the season when Bradley was getting spotty minutes with Doc breathing down his neck, no summer league, and hardly any team practices.

The weakest part of his game is his handle, and I think even that has been over exaggerated. His handle looked pretty [dang] adequate last night, now that he's getting his swagger and got his first green light from Doc to create off the dribble.

Passing? He doesn't turn it over much, and is a smart, competent passer. That's not a serious weakness, that's a slight strength that can be strengthened even more.

He's not like Jeremy Lin turning the ball over 7 times a game, while having limited athletic ability.

I think Bradley's upside is Derrick Rose, if Bradley ever got to play for a couple years at PG as a team's primary scorer.

LarBrd33 put it really well so I'll summarize. Bradley is still unproven and people are hedging their praise until he's performed at a high level consistently. No one wants to set themselves up to be letdown.
--------------------------------------------------------------
His serious weakness is...inexperience. It's like rookie pitchers who start fast and look amazing. You have to wait until batters have taken notice of who they are and start planning for and attacking them before you know what you're dealing with.

In my opinion, Bradley's been better than Lin (whose a legitimate NBA athlete by the way). He's convinced me that he should be starting over Allen (something Pietrus couldn't do). He brings a lot to the table. But Russell Westbrook? Derrick Rose? Future all-star? I think it's too early to speculate on those things based on being a solid role player and having a good game when he was featured (against a pretty disinterested Hawks team). It all seems like a premature celebration, I like to leave those for Miami fans.

[arambone]

If Derrick Rose was stuck on a team with an all world point guard already in place, and he only got time at SG as the 4th or 5th option, we would have scoffed at the idea of Rose potentially being as good as he is now.

Rose plays PG for a team that lacks any other go-to scorers. It's an ideal situation for him to shine. Same with Westbrook, Irving and Wall.

All four of those guys would fall short of their potential if they were stuck at shooting guard.

Bradley won't get a chance to move to PG for another 3 years, unless Rondo is traded.

I expect Bradley to come back next year with a more complete all around game, especially ball handling and play-making for others.

Bradley wasn't raised as a point guard, like he should have been. Even if Bradley eventually does become a primary scoring point guard for some team in a few years, he will have lost precious years of development. Oh well, that just makes him more versatile I guess.

Not celebrating early, just trying to assess his potential realistically, without putting strict limits on this 21 year old defensive phenom, who is shooting a phenomenal 57% from 3 in the 32 games since the all star break.

He's already the best defensive point guard in the league, stuck at 2 guard. Whatever, he makes a darn good 2 guard as well.

[Q_FBE]

Maybe Dare I Say,

Dennis Johnson???

Or am I smoking green weed.

[cman88]

bradleys had so many double digit scoring games since the washington game, I dont think you can really say the atlanta game was a fluke..while his offense may not remain consistent, his defense always will

i'm not too worried about his inexperience in the playoffs either....he certainly no longer lacks confidence. He hangs his hat on his defensive presence and I DONT see him losing that in the playoffs..that is why he is in the starting lineup. his offense is just a Bonus.

Bradley isnt suddenly going to lose his defensive skills, or his midrange game(which was his calling card in college)...lets just sit back and enjoy watching this young player improve every game....Im sure No one here saw Rondo becoming a top 5 allstar PG  when he was drafted.

I would rather be overly positive about his development than to be negative and just say this is all a "fluke" and he will come back to earth in the playoffs.

[dmopower]

I don't see this kid as the next D Rose, or Russel W.  What I see him as is the D Rose. R.W. antidote with solid scoring to boot.

 Seriously we don't need a D Rose and I don't wan't a R.W. But what we have here is a piece of the puzzle that to some degree will help neutralize those weapons. If we have Bradly slowing down Rose then the other players can stay at home on D more at which point our defense becomes formidable enough to compete with the Bulls, same goes for D Wade in Miami, perhaps R.W. of the thunder or Parker of the spurs.

 The fact is he is playing well and maybe he dosn't handle the ball well. He actually handles it well at full speed it is when he slows down to run the half court offense that he becomes vulnerable with his dribble, Having P.P. and K.G. on the floor with him and his ability to play halfcourt off the ball are a great fit.

 He is playing well partialy because we have the peices to accomodate his defeciencys and highlight his assets. He is most valuable to us.

 I think he will play in this league for years as a rotation 3rd guard playing combo guard and special defenseive assignments. . And I think he is sucessful at it.

[CelticG1]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

[Boris Badenov]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

You think Derrick Rose is a mediocre ballhandler??!?!?

[mcshane41]

I think it is a fair comparison. It's not worth mentioning that Bradley isn't at the level of Westbrook yet - that is obvious since this is a comparison. We compare potential in ballplayers we don't compare stars. Stars just are who they are. Bradley isn't a star. He could be though. He'll be a working star though, not a gifted star.

By gifted star I mean a player like Carmelo Anthony, regardless of how hard he works he will always be a scorer. Like anyone he's better with work but he just has some serious talent.

By working star think of Chauncey Billups. Always overlooked and considered less than a star, but Big Shot worked his way into an all-star caliber player and proved a lot of people wrong.

I think Bradley can be like Billups, a working star. He could become an all-star with a lot of work. And I think his actual on the court game could develop into something similar to what Westbrook has done to earn his place in the NBA. Consider the SB Nation scouting reports on these two:

Explosive in all aspects of the game and often plays above the rim. Can dominate as a one-on-one defender, thanks to top-tier athleticism and a long reach, with a strong frame--qualities that also help him play bigger than his size. Drives the lane exceptionally well and hits his free throws.

Plays at a rare speed and pushes the ball constantly. Lightning fast and explosive, with an extra gear. A great leaper and elite rebounder for a guard. Breaks down the 'D,' attacking the basket & piling up free-throw attempts. Has the size and instincts to be an elite passer and defender.

Similar in the asset dept.

Needs significant work on his ball security. Needs to rein in his game a little and play more under control. Still developing as a shooter.

Plays a 2-guard's game but is somewhat undersized for that spot in the NBA: needs to be more of a passer. Still requires a lot of work on his shooting stroke from the arc. Streaky, and durability is a question mark.

Similar flaws. Can you ID who's report is who's?

[CelticG1]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

You think Derrick Rose is a mediocre ballhandler??!?!?

As far as pg's go I don't think Rose or Westbrook are good ball handlers. Maybe mediocre is a little strong but I def don't think ball-handling is one of there strengths (again for a pg)

[MBz]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

You think Derrick Rose is a mediocre ballhandler??!?!?

As far as pg's go I don't think Rose or Westbrook are good ball handlers. Maybe mediocre is a little strong but I def don't think ball-handling is one of there strengths (again for a pg)

Those guys get to the rim whenever they want, it's not just athleticism that gets them there.  If that was the case Gerald Green would be able to get to the basket whenever he wanted.  Rose and Westbrook are very good ball handlers.

[Boris Badenov]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

You think Derrick Rose is a mediocre ballhandler??!?!?

As far as pg's go I don't think Rose or Westbrook are good ball handlers. Maybe mediocre is a little strong but I def don't think ball-handling is one of there strengths (again for a pg)

Well, first you called them "combo" guards and now you're emphasizing that they're PGs. Is Bradley a PG then too?

Rose gets to the rim at will with the ball in his hands. He might be the most difficult cover in the league at that position. Being able to maintain a dribble while moving and changing directions like that is extremely difficult, and Rose does it as well as anyone in the league.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAInRhaiW7I

[thestackshow]

Don't see what's so wrong with Rose/Westbrook comparison. Combo guards with mediocre ballhandling, mediocre passing, extremely athletic. Rose and Westbrook are ahead of Bradley obviously but they  are all scoring pg's and Bradley is ahead of them on defense.

If you refuse to compare him to anyone that's fine. If you don't think he will live up to the legend of Westbrook than just say he will be a poor mans Westbrook with better defense. Don't deny that he plays the same way as him though. Not to mention he was compared to Westbrook in college except, "with offense"

You think Derrick Rose is a mediocre ballhandler??!?!?

As far as pg's go I don't think Rose or Westbrook are good ball handlers. Maybe mediocre is a little strong but I def don't think ball-handling is one of there strengths (again for a pg)

Well, first you called them "combo" guards and now you're emphasizing that they're PGs. Is Bradley a PG then too?

Rose gets to the rim at will with the ball in his hands. He might be the most difficult cover in the league at that position. Being able to maintain a dribble while moving and changing directions like that is extremely difficult, and Rose does it as well as anyone in the league.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAInRhaiW7I

That video is ridiculous, Rose ball handling is just incredible, its funny to see Rondo gambling for the steal then Rose blowing by him in half of those clips lol

[OsirusCeltics]

I don't know if its been said. But I he has the potential to be Eric Gordon. That would be awesome is Avery turns out to be him

Gordon IMO is better than Westbrook or Rose

[Fafnir]

I don't know if its been said. But I he has the potential to be Eric Gordon. That would be awesome is Avery turns out to be him

Gordon IMO is better than Westbrook or Rose

How?

http://bkref.com/tiny/jkALK

He's a more efficient scorer, but he's a worse rebounder (at SG which is doubly bad), doesn't create as well for others, and is far less durable.

He also has never been the go to go offensively so I wouldn't be shocked to see his efficiency drop if he has to shoot more.