Flopping in the NBA is out of control

[Mr October]

Is it the flopping or the refs?   I think it is the later.  They make the calls and reward flopping.   It is not just NBA it is also the NCAA too.   They call way too many charges.

I can't fully blame the refs. The game happens too fast, and their eyes can be fooled based on which angle they see the play happen.

Every time?

No, and the refs quite often ignore a flop, and let a player play through an attempted charge.

My issue is that the players have every incentive to keep trying to flop and fool the refs. The penalty doesn't outweigh the reward right now.

I think this is completely the refs fault and is a reflection of how poorly the refs are at this.

While I'm usually more on the sympathetic side when it comes to critiquing refs, (the game does happen at 100mph, with no replay, watching multiple things at once, while standing in the middle of 10 giants), you can't call a foul you don't see.  What the refs are doing is seeing a guy fall, so then calling a foul.  How the heck does that work?  They clearly didn't see a foul, because as the replays show, there wasn't one.  The refs should never call fouls they don't see.  I'd much rather the refs miss foul calls than call ones that aren't there.  Say there are 50 legitimate fouls in a game, do you think the game would be more entertaining if they called all 50 fouls plus 10 that weren't there, or if they missed 10 fouls and only called 40 out of 50?

Also the best way to curb flopping is to just call nothing (which happens way too rarely in my opinion).  A guy flops and there's no call that should be an easy layup.  At the least you're playing 5 on 4.  Let that happen more often and the problem solves itself.

Excellent points. Yes the refs should ignore what they aren't sure of. I would rather see no calls than wrong calls as well.

Perhaps the NBA's crackdown on physical play is warping the officials' judgement.

[wiley]

Is it the flopping or the refs?   I think it is the later.  They make the calls and reward flopping.   It is not just NBA it is also the NCAA too.   They call way too many charges.

I can't fully blame the refs. The game happens too fast, and their eyes can be fooled based on which angle they see the play happen.

Every time?

No, and the refs quite often ignore a flop, and let a player play through an attempted charge.

My issue is that the players have every incentive to keep trying to flop and fool the refs. The penalty doesn't outweigh the reward right now.

I think this is completely the refs fault and is a reflection of how poorly the refs are at this.

While I'm usually more on the sympathetic side when it comes to critiquing refs, (the game does happen at 100mph, with no replay, watching multiple things at once, while standing in the middle of 10 giants), you can't call a foul you don't see.  What the refs are doing is seeing a guy fall, so then calling a foul.  How the heck does that work?  They clearly didn't see a foul, because as the replays show, there wasn't one.  The refs should never call fouls they don't see.  I'd much rather the refs miss foul calls than call ones that aren't there.  Say there are 50 legitimate fouls in a game, do you think the game would be more entertaining if they called all 50 fouls plus 10 that weren't there, or if they missed 10 fouls and only called 40 out of 50?

Also the best way to curb flopping is to just call nothing (which happens way too rarely in my opinion).  A guy flops and there's no call that should be an easy layup.  At the least you're playing 5 on 4.  Let that happen more often and the problem solves itself.

Excellent points. Yes the refs should ignore what they aren't sure of. I would rather see no calls than wrong calls as well.

Perhaps the NBA's crackdown on physical play is warping the officials' judgement.

Exactly, exactly, exactly!!! 

The refs, whether thru incompetence or some dictation from above, continue to ruin NBA basketball.  They are whistle-happy, and of course this has led to flopping.  Terrible situation and I don' know the solution.  I used to just watch the playoffs and hope there weren't any key calls at the wrong time against my team.  Now I cringe as bad calls and stoppages are the norm, to the point that many games lack any flow whatsoever.  The refs destroyed 4 of the 7 games of our finals series against the Lakers, the entirety of the first 3 games if I remember correctly, and the latter half of game 7. 

[Celtics4ever]

They ought to get docked when they blow a call.    Better no call than a wrong call.  I know there is a strong argument against it but few other jobs can you blow it continously and still have a job.   Some of these refs need to go down the NBDL to sharpen their call.  There is no way they grade their refs after games or they would fire the Joey Crawfords of the world.

[OmarSekou]

Finally checked the box to always stay logged in. Tired of losing posts.

I don't think "no calling" would work. It would get out of hand quickly and people would get upset when games starting getting decided on missed calls. Floppers are "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" and refs are the villagers. In real life, they would have been held accountable when that boy got mauled (even if he deserved it), that's why floppers get the benefit of the doubt.

I think the solution is to kill the incentive for flopping. Create a commission to review potential flops and retroactively punish guys for flopping ($10,000 per flop? a technical per flop?). The potential negative consequences for flopping (loss of money, Ts, respect) would outweigh the potential positive ones (getting undeserved calls). Not only would it stop guys from flopping, it would be fun. ESPN top 10 flops of the week....An unofficial Derek Fisher award at the end of the year...

[wdleehi]

I blame the refs.  The only way they will call a charge is if a player falls down.  Therefor, once their is contact, the players only chance to draw the foul is to fall.  Being in the right spot first and having the offensive player jump into you will not be called if you keep your feet.  More likely, it will be a blocking call. 

[Fafnir]

I blame the refs.  The only way they will call a charge is if a player falls down.  Therefor, once their is contact, the players only chance to draw the foul is to fall.  Being in the right spot first and having the offensive player jump into you will not be called if you keep your feet.  More likely, it will be a blocking call. 

TP.

Greg had one of these against Melo. Melo bulled into him full speed when Greg was set and straight up. But Greg didn't fall down so instead Melo just shoved him out of the way (that was the second offensive foul of the sequence) to get the offensive rebound and then got the foul call to boot.

[wdleehi]

That was an offensive foul on the play Van Gundy is talking about.  The player exaggerated it, but the offensive player did run into him preventing him from having a chance to get to the shooter.  (not that he likely would have gotten there in time)

[CFAN38]

The flopping stems from the league over all getting soft. To many players are focused on drawings fouls. AND 1 is a catch phrase for the last 15 years of basketball. As much as I like paul pierce he has always been a big proponent of this style. How many times have we watched him get in triple threat, jamb step, up fake then either lean into his man while shooting or bring his arms into his defenders while shooting? NBA needs to give the defense more freedom and toughen up the league.

More defensive freedom and a tough style of play will equal less flopping.

[pearljammer10]

A problem thats been going on for far too long in the NBA. I like the idea of either technicals for flop, or some sort of fine/penalty after a review of a game.

[wdleehi]

I think the following changes will make a big difference.

1)  Call offensive fouls based on body position, not if the defender hits the deck.

2)  More "no calls" on the minor (except when it is on the shooting arm) or after the shot contacts.

3)  If a defender falls in front of you because he flopped (no call), the offensive player is allowed to use the down player as a step stool and get an extra jumping boost.



This way, flopping hurts your team by killing the team defense. 

[alajet]

More defensive freedom and a tough style of play will equal less flopping.

Let's bring back hand checking and see what happens

[Mr October]

I blame the refs.  The only way they will call a charge is if a player falls down.  Therefor, once their is contact, the players only chance to draw the foul is to fall.  Being in the right spot first and having the offensive player jump into you will not be called if you keep your feet.  More likely, it will be a blocking call. 

This is spot on. I would like to see officials call more offensive fouls when the defensive player manages to still hold his ground.

Instead they respond to the sell, the fall.

I'm particularly bothered by the exaggerated responses to pretending you got raked in the face (like in the video clips at the start of the thread). Its unsportsmanlike and inexcusable.

[jgod213]

I dunno, i think OmarSekou is on point here.  Some type of monetary fine is what it will take to curtail this acting.

Officialls aren't calling these flops for the hell of it, they're doing it because players have become so adept at waiting for the right time of game and the right contact and then exaggerating it to perfection.  Most flops are very quick and officialls generally don't have the best vantage point to discern just what exactly happened.

Let the refs continue to call it how they see it, and, if a league review team decides a player went out of his way to "hurt the integrity of the match" by flopping, then send him a warning followed by monetary fines.

[wiley]

I dunno, i think OmarSekou is on point here.  Some type of monetary fine is what it will take to curtail this acting.

Officialls aren't calling these flops for the hell of it, they're doing it because players have become so adept at waiting for the right time of game and the right contact and then exaggerating it to perfection.  Most flops are very quick and officialls generally don't have the best vantage point to discern just what exactly happened.

Let the refs continue to call it how they see it, and, if a league review team decides a player went out of his way to "hurt the integrity of the match" by flopping, then send him a warning followed by monetary fines.

As you say:  "most flops are very quick and officials generally don't have the best vantage point to discern just what exactly happened"

That is exactly when the refs should NOT blow the whistle.  When they can't see the foul and aren't sure.  What is this fear of not calling something just because a man is down.  What happened to "I didn't see it", as the perfect, beautiful reason for a no-call.

The refs are not the floor to be super heros with special powers of divination.  They have one job and one job only, to see or hear slaps of flesh on flesh while enforcing the general rules of the game (3 seconds, illegal defense, etc..).  This used to be how the game was called and players, coaches and fans all knew it.  Of course refs got yelled at and badgered for the calls they missed but at least the games had flow.  Nowadays refs are calling fouls and stopping the game for things they think they see, things they think probably happened, things that usually happen in that circumstance, things that tend to happen, things that just might have happened, etc....They are not restricting themselves to calling THINGS THEY SEE AND HEAR. The refs actually think their job is to go above and beyond this.  Someone should tell them they've gone astray, or been led astray.  That reffing pro sports does not suddenly require super human divination.  It's as simple and flawed as ever, limited by the number of eyes reffing the game, an inherent weakness that should again be accepted as the norm.

[the_Bird]

Flopping is unsportsmanlike conduct, and should be treated as such; make it a technical foul.

The refs are never going to call every single flop as a T, but just that threat that a flopped MIGHT get T'ed up should be a deterrent for the most egregious abusers.  If the refs just call the most obvious ones, then I'd expect you'd see a big improvement.

Plus, it's a simple, I think obvious, fix.  See if that solved the problem enough (it's never going to be perfect) before devising any more complicated solutions.