Celtics (35-25) at Bobcats (7-49) 4/15

[GreenFaith1819]

Eja...you are such the comedian.

You know what I mean.

I think the thing that we are forgetting here amidst "Bradleymania", is that Ray Walter Allen VOLUNTEERED his spot in the starting lineup. Doc, evidently, had been asking for someone to come off the bench for the last two years, and the way things fell, it was Ray.

Ray Allen saw that AB was playing well...he saw that the TEAM was in a good groove....he did the honorable thing and volunteered his spot.

Just a few weeks ago, didn't Ray Allen shoot us to victory vs ATL?

Look - I love AB...glad he's starting and doing well. But let's not just speak so dismissively of the man.

And Eja - Dwight Howard is injured, too - as well as KLove.

Rondo? Some on here would trade him for CP3 or DWill tomorrow, LOL.

Let's be real .

[Eja117]

It's well within the realm of possibility that Ray is a better coach than Doc.

I'm not being dismissive of Ray. He's better than a lot of NBA players.

Avery Bradley isn't one of them. That's not dismissive.

[bfrombleacher]

He and JON were getting playing time they didn't deserve.

JO was a bad contract. Ray is a good one even when you factor in this sub-par year. Ainge went into the contract expecting this year and it was worth it. Ray is an all-time great. Ray should not be getting any blame. He's brings work ethic, he is tutoring our younglings. imo he's still worth his contract. If anything, blame Doc in this case (underlined to stress I'm not hating on Doc. I did at the start of the season but I feel stupid for that now).

Gotta say I really don't like what JO gave us.

[GreenFaith1819]

It's well within the realm of possibility that Ray is a better coach than Doc.

I'm not being dismissive of Ray. He's better than a lot of NBA players.

Avery Bradley isn't one of them. That's not dismissive.

Yep.

AB is younger than Ray Allen.

[Celtics18]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

[Eja117]

He and JON were getting playing time they didn't deserve.

JO was a bad contract. Ray is a good one even when you factor in this sub-par year. Ainge went into the contract expecting this year and it was worth it. Ray is an all-time great. Ray should not be getting any blame. He's brings work ethic, he is tutoring our younglings. imo he's still worth his contract. If anything, blame Doc in this case (underlined to stress I'm not hating on Doc. I did at the start of the season but I feel stupid for that now).

Gotta say I really don't like what JO gave us.

Oh I do blame Doc. I do

[Eja117]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

[Celtics18]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

[Eja117]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time. We know JON was horrible back then.

Ray is hurt now and if he'd been playing less minutes maybe he wouldn't be. Avery got two starts in a row back in Feb and did great. Then he was sent right back to the bench.

What exactly is Doc doing to bring along JJJ? Sitting him behind Ryan Hollins because that will teach him?

What's he doing to bring along Etwaun M? Sitting behind Dooling because that will teach him?

If Ray and JON were healthy we would still be the same sllloooooowwww and defenseless team we were before. You would not be seeing much of Avery and Steams and you would be under the impression they weren't ready.

[hwangjini_1]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time. We know JON was horrible back then.

Ray is hurt now and if he'd been playing less minutes maybe he wouldn't be. Avery got two starts in a row back in Feb and did great. Then he was sent right back to the bench.

What exactly is Doc doing to bring along JJJ? Sitting him behind Ryan Hollins because that will teach him?

What's he doing to bring along Etwaun M? Sitting behind Dooling because that will teach him?

If Ray and JON were healthy we would still be the same sllloooooowwww and defenseless team we were before. You would not be seeing much of Avery and Steams and you would be under the impression they weren't ready.

Honestly, 3j is not a good nba player right now and doc has done overall a good job with young players.

[Celtics18]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now.  

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them.  

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time. We know JON was horrible back then.

Ray is hurt now and if he'd been playing less minutes maybe he wouldn't be. Avery got two starts in a row back in Feb and did great. Then he was sent right back to the bench.

What exactly is Doc doing to bring along JJJ? Sitting him behind Ryan Hollins because that will teach him?

What's he doing to bring along Etwaun M? Sitting behind Dooling because that will teach him?

If Ray and JON were healthy we would still be the same sllloooooowwww and defenseless team we were before. You would not be seeing much of Avery and Steams and you would be under the impression they weren't ready.

I've seen Bradley and Stiemsma getting minutes all year long.  They weren't getting as much burn as they are getting now earlier in the season, but that was part of the development process.

I think it's silly to think that there's no learning curve for an NBA player, and you just are the player you are, and you can never improve.

[BballTim]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time.

  So people really think that Doc should give all of the backups plenty of time, even if he thinks that they'll fail, in order to demonstrate to fans who never go to practice that those players shouldn't be getting minutes?

[Senninsage]

First of all, anyone claiming Ray Allen doesn't play very good defense, doesn't know what the heck they are talking about. Ray Allen plays very good defense, but there are just those times when his age and lack of speed shows. When you look at most of the games that are lost, Ray Allen usually isn't the one failing his defensive assignment in ways that costs us the game.

And, as impressed as I am with Bradley, and as much as I agree that he offers very helpful benefits over Ray in a starting role, what Ray Allen brings to this team can't be replaced by anybody, not even Bradley. What Ray lacks compared to Bradley, he makes up for in the fact that he's such a known quantity as far as his deadly 3 point shooting is concerned, that it forces defenses to pay attention to him in a way that opens up the floor for our other players in a way that just doesn't happen with any other Celtics player, and there's also the added benefit that it requires so much energy to defend and chase Ray around so constantly off screens. Ray usually always comes up big in the late game, clutch situations.

When Ray's threes are dropping, which is pretty [dang] often, it's almost unfair if any other Celtic is in a nice offensive groove as well. How quickly do people forget that Ray was our best player by far at the start of the season, and how soon do people forget the insane percentage from three that Ray was shooting in last year's playoffs. Do not doubt Ray Allen. There is no championship for this Celtics team without Ray Allen's contributions.

[Eja117]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time. We know JON was horrible back then.

Ray is hurt now and if he'd been playing less minutes maybe he wouldn't be. Avery got two starts in a row back in Feb and did great. Then he was sent right back to the bench.

What exactly is Doc doing to bring along JJJ? Sitting him behind Ryan Hollins because that will teach him?

What's he doing to bring along Etwaun M? Sitting behind Dooling because that will teach him?

If Ray and JON were healthy we would still be the same sllloooooowwww and defenseless team we were before. You would not be seeing much of Avery and Steams and you would be under the impression they weren't ready.

Honestly, 3j is not a good nba player right now and doc has done overall a good job with young players.

But neither is Hollins and if he's so good with young players get him in already. And he's done a horrid job with the older players.

[Eja117]

The most notable things Ray and JON did this year was slow down the emergence of Avery and Steams.

That's Doc's fault, not theirs.  

Slowed down?  If they had been getting twenty minutes a game each from the first game on, would they be all stars by now?  

I don't see how you can fault Doc's development of these guys.  He's brought them along the right way.  That is; by giving them the opportunity when it presented itself and allowing them to learn and earn their way onto the court.

You are still stuck in this murky, mucky thinking that most of you had before the trade deadline that this was a tank year and the goal was to get as many young guys as many minutes as possible.

Look at that Bobcats team we played tonight, or the Wizards, or the Nets.  Are any of those young guys really learning anything valuable about how to be NBA players by getting minutes on those teams?

I say you learn more by sitting behind Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen and being ready when your time comes.  

Unfortunately, the fans encourage the loser mentality that has taken over for a majority of NBA franchises.   The Charlotte Bobcats may be nothing more than a developmental team, but not the Boston Celtics.  There's one goal:  Winning games.  If young guys are helping you do that; great!  If they aren't, they can wait 'till next year.  

No. I want Doc playing the best players. He didn't do that this year.

And yes. This could have happened a lot sooner

Greg Stiemsma and Avery Bradley were nowhere near as good in January and February as they are right now. 

Luckily, they've had Doc Rivers to teach them. 

That might be true, but we wouldn't know because they didn't get playing time.

  So people really think that Doc should give all of the backups plenty of time, even if he thinks that they'll fail, in order to demonstrate to fans who never go to practice that those players shouldn't be getting minutes?

No. Just the ones that always do well in games when they play and who are better than the options in front of them.

That means since February or earlier in some cases

Steams over JON
Bradley over Ray
JJJ over Hollins
and probably Etwaun over Dooling

It doesn't mean JJJ over KG or Etwaun over Pierce or something