Author Topic: Great article of how the Celts really turned things around against all odds  (Read 6396 times)

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Offline esel1000

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http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/7790858/boston-celtics-positioning-contenders

Jackie's right... lets be real here. A month and a half ago did anybody see us blowing out three contenders in one week (2 on a back to back traveling night),  cruising to a comfortable atlantic division lead, 2 games behind the pacers for the 3rd seed, and displaying this much confidence.

This team lost JO and Wilcox and for a long time seemed hopeless with lack of a big man.

Then, KG was moved to the 5 and Steamer shined in a backup role. Hollins was signed for additional limited depth.


The team seemed unable to come out strong and found itself in deficits.

Then, Bradley began to shine and Ray took on the role as bench leader. Now, they come out strong with AB's defense and lay it on in the second as a Ray led bench lights up the scoreboard.

Most teams crumble under injuries. We thought DA was crazy when he didnt make a trade. Now, we realize how right he was. This team defeated the injury bug. They adapted and got better. Players began to thrive and show their true abilities. KG seems to be getting stronger by the day as he adds a whole new presence to the role of center. I honestly don't think there's a team in this league that these Celtics couldn't beat right now. I really don't.

The way they're playing, the confidence they hold with each dominant win and dominant performance, they look the championship Celtics of 2008. Call me crazy, and maybe a little biased as I am a fan and the Grizzlies look great too, but the celtics are by far the biggest sleeper team in this league right now. No drama, no crying... only good, hard basketball.

Offline Celticjay

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Good article except Jackie needed to include herself in there as she had written them off also.

Other than that another solid article by JM

Offline LarBrd33

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I absolutely wrote them off.  This isn't the team I gave up on earlier this year.  Kevin Garnett right now is blowing my mind.  I haven't seen him move this well since 2008.  I said from day 1 that we'd be toast "unless a starting center falls out of the sky".  I didn't expect that center to be Kevin Garnett.  

Bradley is a surprise as well.  I didn't expect him to contribute.  That gives us a legitimate bench presence (either he or Ray).  He reminds me of a mini Tony Allen without the mental problems.

And role players like Stiesma are understanding their place and getting it done.  It's very encouraging.

That said, I still don't see us as contenders.  We have some fatal flaws.  We're going to be a major pest for anyone we face, though... and I'm looking forward to seeing this tough team grind it out.  It's got the potential to be a lot like 09... where we knew we were undermanned and ultimately didn't actually have a shot, but we still got to see the team go down swinging.  And boy did they.

One side note.  Said this in another thread.  I don't see Philly and Indiana as "contenders".  Do you ?  Are we just calling any team that makes the playoff a "contender" this year/  Here's what I said in another thread.

Quote
Depends who you think the contenders are, I think.  I had Miami, Chicago, OKC, Dallas and the Lakers as my contenders at the start of the season.  Some people might count San Antonio. 

Tue, Dec 27 @ Miami L 115-107 (no Pierce)
Wed, Jan 11 vs Dallas L 90-85
Fri, Jan 13 vs Chicago L 88-79
Mon, Jan 16 vs Oklahoma City L 97-88
Thu, Feb 9 vs Los Angeles L 88-87 OT

Sun, Feb 12 vs Chicago W 95-91 (Rose didn't play)
Thu, Feb 16 @ Chicago L 89-80
Mon, Feb 20 @ Dallas L 89-73 (no KG or Rondo)
Wed, Feb 22 @ Oklahoma City L 119-104 (no Rondo)
Sun, Mar 11 @ Los Angeles L 97-94

Sun, Apr 1 vs Miami W 91-72 (first legitimate win)
Wed, Apr 4 vs San Antonio L 87-86
Thu, Apr 5 @ Chicago L 93-86


So I mean... I personally don't count the first win against Chicago, because Rose didn't play.  I do acknowledge that our only chance of beating the Bulls is Rose going down with an injury in the playoffs.  So maybe you count it??  I don't know.  That leaves us as 1 for 12 against contenders with our lone legitimate win coming last week against the Heat.  Hats off on that one... impressive. 

However... there were 3 losses there where one of the Big 3 didn't play.  So to be fair (since I didn't count the first Bulls win)... that leaves us as 1 for 9 against contenders.  I missing something here or do we really think we are good enough to beat a team like the Lakers with two legit 7 foot big men?

Offline esel1000

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I absolutely wrote them off.  This isn't the team I gave up on earlier this year.  Kevin Garnett right now is blowing my mind.  I haven't seen him move this well since 2008.  I said from day 1 that we'd be toast "unless a starting center falls out of the sky".  I didn't expect that center to be Kevin Garnett.  

Bradley is a surprise as well.  I didn't expect him to contribute.  That gives us a legitimate bench presence (either he or Ray).  He reminds me of a mini Tony Allen without the mental problems.

And role players like Stiesma are understanding their place and getting it done.  It's very encouraging.

That said, I still don't see us as contenders.  We have some fatal flaws.  We're going to be a major pest for anyone we face, though... and I'm looking forward to seeing this tough team grind it out.  It's got the potential to be a lot like 09... where we knew we were undermanned and ultimately didn't actually have a shot, but we still got to see the team go down swinging.  And boy did they.

One side note.  Said this in another thread.  I don't see Philly and Indiana as "contenders".  Do you ?  Are we just calling any team that makes the playoff a "contender" this year/  Here's what I said in another thread.

Quote
Depends who you think the contenders are, I think.  I had Miami, Chicago, OKC, Dallas and the Lakers as my contenders at the start of the season.  Some people might count San Antonio.  

Tue, Dec 27 @ Miami L 115-107 (no Pierce)
Wed, Jan 11 vs Dallas L 90-85
Fri, Jan 13 vs Chicago L 88-79
Mon, Jan 16 vs Oklahoma City L 97-88
Thu, Feb 9 vs Los Angeles L 88-87 OT

Sun, Feb 12 vs Chicago W 95-91 (Rose didn't play)
Thu, Feb 16 @ Chicago L 89-80
Mon, Feb 20 @ Dallas L 89-73 (no KG or Rondo)
Wed, Feb 22 @ Oklahoma City L 119-104 (no Rondo)
Sun, Mar 11 @ Los Angeles L 97-94

Sun, Apr 1 vs Miami W 91-72 (first legitimate win)
Wed, Apr 4 vs San Antonio L 87-86
Thu, Apr 5 @ Chicago L 93-86


So I mean... I personally don't count the first win against Chicago, because Rose didn't play.  I do acknowledge that our only chance of beating the Bulls is Rose going down with an injury in the playoffs.  So maybe you count it??  I don't know.  That leaves us as 1 for 12 against contenders with our lone legitimate win coming last week against the Heat.  Hats off on that one... impressive.  

However... there were 3 losses there where one of the Big 3 didn't play.  So to be fair (since I didn't count the first Bulls win)... that leaves us as 1 for 9 against contenders.  I missing something here or do we really think we are good enough to beat a team like the Lakers with two legit 7 foot big men?

I honestly see the pacers as contenders and the way they were playing the sixers could be in the convo (had literally the best bench in the league) though now they're not really. Also, we played a lot of those teams hard and if we had the line-up and confidence we have now I think we would have beat more of those teams earlier in the year. Its amazing how much of sports is mental

Offline LarBrd33

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yeah.  Add the Sixers and Pacers if you want.  It's subjective I guess.  I personally don't see them as being in the discussion at all.  Good teams.  I wouldn't put a penny on them in Vegas.  Same with Orlando.  Not a contender, imo.  CHicago or Miami is coming out of the East.  It's a foregone conclusion (barring significant injury).  

I'd love to believe Boston can upset them, though.  Maybe another win again Miami Tuesday will give me some hope.

Offline mctyson

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I don't think Jackie really fully stated the cause for the turnaround (at least IMO.)  Avery Bradley really is the difference maker on this team right now.  KG has been playing well all season - moving him to the 5 just made our offense better, which certainly has helped.  But this team is all about defense, we are built on shutting teams/players down and destroying their will and rhythm offensively.

The addition of AB besides Rondo has created a nightmare defensive backcourt for opposing teams.  This duo can work with KG + Bass or (another thing JM forgot to mention) KG + Stiemer.  When Pietrus was healthy, our Rondo + AB + Piety + Stiemer + KG unit was arguably the best defensive unit in the league.

But we can sub Sasha in for Piety now, even PP is a decent defender, and we have a lockdown unit.  That is because of AB.

Doc realizes this.  He could care less if AB offers anything offensively, because he know with him on the floor the other team's ability to score is severely diminished.  As much as I love Jesus, that simply was not the case with him in the starting 5.


Offline pearljammer10

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Great article indeed. I have been turned into a believer here in the last couple weeks. My frustrations with the team have slowly been fading away as we have begun to play up to our potential.

Offline Jon

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Avery Bradley has really made an enormous difference, not just for this season, but for the whole trajectory of our future. 

There is a case to be made that even at this point, he's the 5th best player to have played here in the Big Three Era (though I still probably lean towards Shaq).  And regardless of whether you agree with that or not, the fact that such an argument could be made really shows how important he's become. 

Second, he really changes the way things look for us.  A couple months ago, I think most of us thought that the only way to rebuild was to get lucky in free agency, and put two superstars next to Rondo.  Now it looks like Bradley can be a building block for the future.  And that really changes the way we can approach rebuilding.  Now it really looks like we can simply bring everyone back next year, continue to develop our young guys under the tutelage of the Big Three (including our two picks), and then look to 2013 or 2014 to either make a run at a superstar or deal some of our pieces for such a superstar. 


Offline cman88

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The turnaround is because our youth (bradley/steamboat) developed into legit nba players this year...had you told me that before the season I would've laughed

We needed an injection of youth. And with bass/bradley in the starting 5 we have it finally.

Offline alajet

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I absolutely wrote them off.  This isn't the team I gave up on earlier this year.  Kevin Garnett right now is blowing my mind.  I haven't seen him move this well since 2008.  I said from day 1 that we'd be toast "unless a starting center falls out of the sky".  I didn't expect that center to be Kevin Garnett.  

Bradley is a surprise as well.  I didn't expect him to contribute.  That gives us a legitimate bench presence (either he or Ray).  He reminds me of a mini Tony Allen without the mental problems.

And role players like Stiesma are understanding their place and getting it done.  It's very encouraging.

That said, I still don't see us as contenders.  We have some fatal flaws.  We're going to be a major pest for anyone we face, though... and I'm looking forward to seeing this tough team grind it out.  It's got the potential to be a lot like 09... where we knew we were undermanned and ultimately didn't actually have a shot, but we still got to see the team go down swinging.  And boy did they.

One side note.  Said this in another thread.  I don't see Philly and Indiana as "contenders".  Do you ?  Are we just calling any team that makes the playoff a "contender" this year/  Here's what I said in another thread.

Quote
Depends who you think the contenders are, I think.  I had Miami, Chicago, OKC, Dallas and the Lakers as my contenders at the start of the season.  Some people might count San Antonio.  

Tue, Dec 27 @ Miami L 115-107 (no Pierce)
Wed, Jan 11 vs Dallas L 90-85
Fri, Jan 13 vs Chicago L 88-79
Mon, Jan 16 vs Oklahoma City L 97-88
Thu, Feb 9 vs Los Angeles L 88-87 OT

Sun, Feb 12 vs Chicago W 95-91 (Rose didn't play)
Thu, Feb 16 @ Chicago L 89-80
Mon, Feb 20 @ Dallas L 89-73 (no KG or Rondo)
Wed, Feb 22 @ Oklahoma City L 119-104 (no Rondo)
Sun, Mar 11 @ Los Angeles L 97-94

Sun, Apr 1 vs Miami W 91-72 (first legitimate win)
Wed, Apr 4 vs San Antonio L 87-86
Thu, Apr 5 @ Chicago L 93-86


So I mean... I personally don't count the first win against Chicago, because Rose didn't play.  I do acknowledge that our only chance of beating the Bulls is Rose going down with an injury in the playoffs.  So maybe you count it??  I don't know.  That leaves us as 1 for 12 against contenders with our lone legitimate win coming last week against the Heat.  Hats off on that one... impressive.  

However... there were 3 losses there where one of the Big 3 didn't play.  So to be fair (since I didn't count the first Bulls win)... that leaves us as 1 for 9 against contenders.  I missing something here or do we really think we are good enough to beat a team like the Lakers with two legit 7 foot big men?

Good points here. But you shouldn't overlook that both LA games went down to the wire and we just ended up losing in the final couple of possessions. I know that a loss counts as a loss, but it's not like that games had LA written on them. Just like the recent loss to Spurs, I say.

As for the contenders, yes, Pacers or Sixers are not contenders. But if Pacers is left out, Dallas is definitely out. That team isn't playing good basketball. Kidd and Odom are easily having the worst seasons of their careers, and they ley JJ Barea go, which, in my book, will turn out to be a mistake if things go on like this.
That leaves Miami, Chicago, Oklahoma and San Antonio as the real contenders for me, not coincidentally that these are the four teams with the best record in NBA.

Anyway, playoff basketball will be different. I can't see a team thrashing all others on the way to the trophy. This will be one of the closest playoff battles of recent times, so, looking forward to it!  

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I was wrong about the Celtics and wrote them off as Lottery experts at the beginning of the season. They sure looked like it.

I still don't consider this team a contender , but they are playing well enough to be flirting with the consideration as one.  

Given the untimely exit of Jeff Green , JO , Wilcox and Rays ankle ,and Pietrus and how old our team is.... the season is nothing short of amazing.

Docs been good, AB and Steamer stepping up, and last but not least..

I would like to take this chance to personally thank the Orlando Magic for sending us Bass for Big Baby....  ;D

  


Offline clover

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I was wrong about the Celtics and wrote them off as Lottery experts at the beginning of the season. They sure looked like it.

I still don't consider this team a contender , but they are playing well enough to be flirting with the consideration as one.  

Given the untimely exit of Jeff Green , JO , Wilcox and Rays ankle ,and Pietrus and how old our team is.... the season is nothing short of amazing.

Docs been good, AB and Steamer stepping up, and last but not least..

I would like to take this chance to personally thank the Orlando Magic for sending us Bass for Big Baby....  ;D

  

One never wants to wish for or celebrate anyone's injury, so I don't.  But the case could be made that it was only the timely injuries to JO and CW that paved the way for Bass to start, KG to shift to center and Stiemer to emerge; and likewise for RA and MP for Bradley to settle in as the starting 2 and Ray off the bench.

That's five of Doc's seven players put into their current position only because multiple injuries really forced his hand.



Offline KJ33

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One thing she mentioned in the article that I am puzzled about, is her claim that if the Celtics secure the 4th seed, they will have home court advantage in the first round.  Bob Ryan also asserted this claim in his piece in the Globe today, yet someone here had previously posted a link to NBA.com where it stated that the team with the better record would have home court even if a lower seed.  Hard to figure that Jackie and Bob both got this wrong, but as of right now, the C's only have the 6th best record in the East so both the 5th and 6th seed, the Hawks and Magic, have a better record.  That would mean although the C's finished as Atlantic division winners, if the 5th seed has a better record, they would have the home court.

Can anyone clear this up definitively?

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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I was wrong about the Celtics and wrote them off as Lottery experts at the beginning of the season. They sure looked like it.

I still don't consider this team a contender , but they are playing well enough to be flirting with the consideration as one.  

Given the untimely exit of Jeff Green , JO , Wilcox and Rays ankle ,and Pietrus and how old our team is.... the season is nothing short of amazing.

Docs been good, AB and Steamer stepping up, and last but not least..

I would like to take this chance to personally thank the Orlando Magic for sending us Bass for Big Baby....  ;D

  

One never wants to wish for or celebrate anyone's injury, so I don't.  But the case could be made that it was only the timely injuries to JO and CW that paved the way for Bass to start, KG to shift to center and Stiemer to emerge; and likewise for RA and MP for Bradley to settle in as the starting 2 and Ray off the bench.

That's five of Doc's seven players put into their current position only because multiple injuries really forced his hand.




I agree about not wanting to see injuries—I loved watching JO play defense, loved watching Wilcox run, and was looking forward to seeing how Green would play this season—but sometimes the bad is used to bring about good. I'm not sure that this season's original starting 5 was "too old," but they were definitely stagnant on offense—JO hardly ever scored, and the Cs often settled into running Ray around a bazillion picks while no one else did much.

I've also been wondering, during this recent good streak, whether the original starting 5 was too good—that is, whether it had too many offensive options. I mean, when you've got one of the best passers and three Hall-of-Fame-level scorers, and they're all willing to "put pride aside" for the good of the team, you often end up with a bunch of guys hesitantly standing around not wanting to look like a ballhog. By removing one of those HOF-level scorers, your first-unit offensive strategy becomes simpler and clearer—get Garnett and Pierce into a rhythm early—and your second-unit offense also gets a huge boost with Ray.

Combine all this with the addition of some young legs in the starting lineup, opening the game with intense D thanks to the addition of Bradley, the emergence of Steamer as a reliable backup big, Pierce's rediscovered shooting touch, and KG's dominance at the 5, and suddenly we're looking at a whole new ballgame—almost a whole new team.

Sometimes it takes circumstances that are, on the surface at least, unfortunate to bring about something better. I've learned this in recent years through my battle with anxiety and depression, and the Cs are learning it through an injury plague that's forced Doc to do some things he probably wouldn't have done otherwise. Now we're seeing not only non-Big-4 players getting significant playing time, but seeing EVERYONE being put in positions where their strengths are highlighted and enhanced—KG's quickness advantage at the 5, Bradley's D to set the tone early, Ray getting more looks as part of the second unit, etc. I'm now feeling much better about this team's chances.
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Offline CelticG1

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I absolutely wrote them off.  This isn't the team I gave up on earlier this year.  Kevin Garnett right now is blowing my mind.  I haven't seen him move this well since 2008.  I said from day 1 that we'd be toast "unless a starting center falls out of the sky".  I didn't expect that center to be Kevin Garnett.  

Bradley is a surprise as well.  I didn't expect him to contribute.  That gives us a legitimate bench presence (either he or Ray).  He reminds me of a mini Tony Allen without the mental problems.

And role players like Stiesma are understanding their place and getting it done.  It's very encouraging.

That said, I still don't see us as contenders.  We have some fatal flaws.  We're going to be a major pest for anyone we face, though... and I'm looking forward to seeing this tough team grind it out.  It's got the potential to be a lot like 09... where we knew we were undermanned and ultimately didn't actually have a shot, but we still got to see the team go down swinging.  And boy did they.

One side note.  Said this in another thread.  I don't see Philly and Indiana as "contenders".  Do you ?  Are we just calling any team that makes the playoff a "contender" this year/  Here's what I said in another thread.

Quote
Depends who you think the contenders are, I think.  I had Miami, Chicago, OKC, Dallas and the Lakers as my contenders at the start of the season.  Some people might count San Antonio.  

Tue, Dec 27 @ Miami L 115-107 (no Pierce)
Wed, Jan 11 vs Dallas L 90-85
Fri, Jan 13 vs Chicago L 88-79
Mon, Jan 16 vs Oklahoma City L 97-88
Thu, Feb 9 vs Los Angeles L 88-87 OT

Sun, Feb 12 vs Chicago W 95-91 (Rose didn't play)
Thu, Feb 16 @ Chicago L 89-80
Mon, Feb 20 @ Dallas L 89-73 (no KG or Rondo)
Wed, Feb 22 @ Oklahoma City L 119-104 (no Rondo)
Sun, Mar 11 @ Los Angeles L 97-94

Sun, Apr 1 vs Miami W 91-72 (first legitimate win)
Wed, Apr 4 vs San Antonio L 87-86
Thu, Apr 5 @ Chicago L 93-86


So I mean... I personally don't count the first win against Chicago, because Rose didn't play.  I do acknowledge that our only chance of beating the Bulls is Rose going down with an injury in the playoffs.  So maybe you count it??  I don't know.  That leaves us as 1 for 12 against contenders with our lone legitimate win coming last week against the Heat.  Hats off on that one... impressive.  

However... there were 3 losses there where one of the Big 3 didn't play.  So to be fair (since I didn't count the first Bulls win)... that leaves us as 1 for 9 against contenders.  I missing something here or do we really think we are good enough to beat a team like the Lakers with two legit 7 foot big men?

Good points here. But you shouldn't overlook that both LA games went down to the wire and we just ended up losing in the final couple of possessions. I know that a loss counts as a loss, but it's not like that games had LA written on them. Just like the recent loss to Spurs, I say.

As for the contenders, yes, Pacers or Sixers are not contenders. But if Pacers is left out, Dallas is definitely out. That team isn't playing good basketball. Kidd and Odom are easily having the worst seasons of their careers, and they ley JJ Barea go, which, in my book, will turn out to be a mistake if things go on like this.
That leaves Miami, Chicago, Oklahoma and San Antonio as the real contenders for me, not coincidentally that these are the four teams with the best record in NBA.

Anyway, playoff basketball will be different. I can't see a team thrashing all others on the way to the trophy. This will be one of the closest playoff battles of recent times, so, looking forward to it!  

See for me I don't really care about the first half of the season. We sucked thenand were a completely different team. If you think we are the same team then as we are now I think you are mistaken.

Granted we haven't done much better against certain contenders post all-star break but we've only played 4 games against them.

I just think looking at the beginning of the season is completely useless unless you think we haven't changed.

You might as well be saying that Avery Bradley can't score because he averages 6 ppg