Some things have changed (LarBrd33 chews Crow)

[LarBrd33]

We got outrebounded tonight 53 to 39.  Can this tiny team beat a squad like the Lakers with two 7 footers?  Probably not.  Maybe.  Dunno.  Most likely, no.

That's a long way from my certainty earlier this season.  I gave up on this team. Not only did I give up on them, but I stopped watching entirely.  It was depressing to watch.  I was bored to death.  I beat a horse to death with an endless stream of complaints on this forum.  The complaints fell into two basic categories:

#1 -  No Size.  Traded Perk for Krstik and Green on the promise of Shaq being healthy.  Shaq never comes back (retires), Krstik stays in Europe after lockout, Green out for season, David West thing falls through... we end up relying on our 6th string big man (the corpse of Jermaine O'Neal) and scrubs.  You can't win a title with that kind of garbage.  No size = no contender.  Nobody to really blame.  Dumb luck, really.  In my mind, it was "Chris Kaman or bust".  Either we got a legitimate starting center to "fall out of the sky" or we should consider moving Ray and Pierce for expiring contracts and youth (to give the rebuild a jumpstart).  No point in getting slaughtered in the playoffs. 

#2 - I WAS BORED TO DEATH by the team.  I can't state that enough.  When it comes to watching a team day-to-day, I need something to hold my attention.  Watching greatness is exciting (08).  Watching a team with chemistry scrapping away is exciting (undermanned team in 09 overachieving in playoff overtimes without Kevin Garnett)... watching a team with young hope is exciting (07... Gerald Green, Big Al and Delonte.  You never know what tomorrow will hold.  Are they busts?  Are they the future?  Will everything click?... that's high drama).  This Celtic team had none of that.  We were old.  The chemistry was lacking.  The energy was lacking.  It was the same old team doing the same old things and not doing them as well.  There wasn't a SINGLE YOUNG PROSPECT on the ENTIRE roster.  Avery Bradley, Stinksma and Johnson were all bums.   There was nothing to tune in for.  I couldn't stand it.  I gave Stiesma a couple games to excite me, but when I quickly realized he was nothing more than a 27 year old d-leaguer, I tuned out.  The last full game I watched was in early January.  I don't regret it. 

I also didn't want to get too immersed in a team that I fully expected to be blown up at the deadline.  Why bother?  I figured come the deadline I'd have something to watch.  Either a re-loaded playoff team who added help... or a team full of young strangers I needed to familiar myself with.

Some things have changed.  I've now watched two games in a row and it's time I take my shame lashings.  I was partially wrong about some things.

#1 - Size:  I said our only hope was for a "starting center to fall out of the sky".  I didn't anticipate or expect that to be Kevin Garnett.  KG still has it.  He's still a dominant defensive player.  He's moving better than I've seen him move since early 2009.  By switching him to center and starting Bass, they may have saved the entire season.  I didn't foresee this.  Sure, we're still too small and ultimately probably fodder for a team like the Lakers, but moving Kevin to center (and removing dead weight JO from the lineup) has transformed this team.  This isn't the same squad I abandoned.  This one is lively, playing tough defense, has chemistry and energy oozing out of their pores and has capable starters at every position.  It's fantastic to watch.  This falls squarely under the category of "undermanned team with chemistry scrapping away".  LarBrd33 approved.

#2 - Youth.  There wasn't a single intriguing young player on the entire roster.  Mind you, a guy doesn't have to be a "future allstar" to grasp my attention.  At no point did I ever actually expect Delonte West to be a superstar in this league... it was just interesting to see if he'd get there.  I remember 2 month stretch where he shot like 60% and 50% from three... it was exciting to tune in and figure out where his ceiling was.  Earlier this year (aside from a mild blip from Stiesma), there wasn't ANYTHING "unexpected" coming out of this team.  HElllooOoooo Avery Bradley.  I don't think there is any chance he'll be a star... but at the very least he's entertaining me right now.  He's catching teams by surprise, being a pest on defense and finding pockets under the basket.  At the moment, watching him and Rondo together is pretty darn fun.  I don't know if it will last.  Bradley might have a Tony Allen type of ceiling (which would be pretty nice, actually)... but for a moment we can suspend our disbelief and see how Linsane his rise becomes.  I'm lovin it.

So for all I know we could still end up falling apart during these last games.  The schedule is brutal.  They are all games we could lose.  At any point, KG can start limping and the season will be toast.  But for a moment... just a moment... I'll concede that this team stands a LOOOOOONGshot of winning a title.   I'm chewing on crow, folks.  Not swallowing, but I'm chewing.  This team is fun again.  Let's shock the world.

[chambers]

Being 100% honest with you, and I don't mean any offense, but this just seems like the response of a typical fair weather fan- hates when we lose, loves when we win.

We beat up on an easy part of schedule, beat some average-below average teams, get a nice win vs the Heat who are slumping, and we are suddenly everyone's favorite team again.

Same old story. Everyone calls certain players busts/bums after they haven't played a full years worth of games in a condensed schedule.

We still aren't legitimate contenders, but we are looking WAY better than we were before the break- and if we play the Magic or the Pacers in the first round, we will have a fantastic shot at beating them.

Problem is though, as you stated...
We don't have the size to compete against either the Lakers or the Grizzlies.

Getting past Chicago and Miami is one thing, but then facing either the Spurs, Lakers, Grizz or most likely the Thunder will be almost impossible. I guess if we got that far we must be doing something right.

Just imagine how good we'd be if we had JO coming back and we had Wilcox coming back.
That would be 3 solid big body back ups heading into the playoffs.

Our lack of depth will be our downfall unfortunately.

[Celtics18]

Welcome back!

Just stay on board if the seas start to get a little rocky again. 

I've thought they were fun to watch all along. 

[LarBrd33]

Being 100% honest with you, and I don't mean any offense, but this just seems like the response of a typical fair weather fan- hates when we lose, loves when we win.

We beat up on an easy part of schedule, beat some average-below average teams, get a nice win vs the Heat who are slumping, and we are suddenly everyone's favorite team again.

I agree with you 100%.  Like I said, I wouldn't be shocked to see us collapse in these last dozen games.  Schedule is too tough.

But right now... they are at least interesting to watch.  They actually stand a chance of making the 2nd round if they keep it up.

[birdwatcher]

Being 100% honest with you, and I don't mean any offense, but this just seems like the response of a typical fair weather fan- hates when we lose, loves when we win.

This comment infuriates me to no end. You've been around the boards long enough to know he's not a fair weather fan. And what do you have to do to be a "real fan"?
Do you have to have some sort of unwavering faith no matter how bad your team is doing? Are you only allowed to judge a team when it's doing well?
The whole fair weather fan/pink hat tag is garbage.

[theswitch]

I'm confused, are you watching the games or not at this point? It's hard to keep up with whether or not you've seen a Celtics game since early January.

[LB3533]

Why do we need size?

We can compete with any team...we just have to limit our own mistakes, make FTs and layups.

[chambers]

Being 100% honest with you, and I don't mean any offense, but this just seems like the response of a typical fair weather fan- hates when we lose, loves when we win.

This comment infuriates me to no end. You've been around the boards long enough to know he's not a fair weather fan. And what do you have to do to be a "real fan"?
Do you have to have some sort of unwavering faith no matter how bad your team is doing? Are you only allowed to judge a team when it's doing well?
The whole fair weather fan/pink hat tag is garbage.

Perhaps 'fair weather' was the wrong tag. But you know what the meaning of fair weather is?
It is:

not reliable or present in situations of hardship or difficulty (esp in the phrase fair-weather friend)

I meant whatever I meant along the premise that as soon as things are bad in the win/loss column, regardless of injuries or schedule etc, 99% of Celtics fans will CRUCIFY this team to no end. As soon as we start winning a few games it's a complete reversal/contradiction.

examples:
Bradley sucks. Wrong.
Steimsma sucks. Wrong
Rondo should be traded. Wrong.
KG is over the hill. Wrong
Pierce is done.Wrong.
Ray is done.Wrong
Dooling is useless.Wrong.
Danny Ainge is a criminal for not doing anything and doing everything. Wrong.
We should have played Moore/Johnson and none of this would have happened. Wrong.
We should have gotten some second round picks for Pierce or Ray before deadline because they haven't got another run in them and now we're left with nothing but corpses and a guaranteed first round exit. Wrong.
There's no way this team can get out of second round. Wrong.

At least Larbrd33 has the balls to say he was slightly quick to pass judgements on some of the above scenarios- the other 99% of Celtics fans are reactive this way but have no idea of their own pessimism.
Doesn't make them bad fans- but it sure does infuriate me. Peoples decisions are based on emotion and less on statistics and logic when it comes to sports teams.

I'm just wondering how many people will revert back to their pre-all star break convictions of how bad we suck and call for Ainge's head if we lose 10 of the next 12 games and bow out of the first round, even under more injury stress or any tough luck.

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

You're a cry baby dude. We lost by 1 to the hottest team in basketball.  We got outrebounded because our ONLY center just played 8 minutes.

We shut them down in the 2nd half.  Pierce almost won it.

Instead of saying, [dang] that was a good competetive game that we coulda easily won, against the hottest team in the NBA, you're over here crying.

Grab a tissue, it's gonna be OK.

[LarBrd33]

@chambers... For what it's worth, by your definition I think I pass.  Despite the fact I skipped watching the live games, I was MORE than present as a Celtic fan on these boards... I was downright annoying.  I remained acutely aware of the day-to-day happenings of this squad, conversed with my fellow Celtic fan on an obsessive level and shared my delusional opinions at every given opportunity.  I think a fair weather fan would have just stopped following the team entirely, showed up in the playoffs and said, "who is this Avery Brantley kid?"...  Personally I just felt if the organization was mailing in their games and we were heading towards blowing it up, I had no reason to waste my time watching them.

Also... I dont think you were calling me out particularly, but in my case I never felt like any of "the big 4" was the issue.  I knew ray, kg and pierce had game.  I was entirely against trading pierce for equal cap killing short-term downgrades like Rudy gay and danny granger, because they did nothing to solve our problems.  And I still dont know If I was quick to judge/wrong about anything I said (aside from calling Bradley a bum)... This team is still deeply flawed and undermanned.  The jury is still out.  But I said all along our only chance of competing was for a center to appear out of thin air... And KG appears to be that magical center.  The Bradley thing is fun for the moment... gives us a young guy to rally behind.  Not ready to anoint him a future star, though.  That said, I'm here to concede that if we match up with Indiana in the first round, a Rose-less Bulls in the 2nd round and Orlando in the 3rd round... we could THEORETICALLY make the Finals.  That's the best you'll get out of me right now.  This schedule could still destroy us. 

@myteamisbetterthanyours... Not sure if your rant was directed at me or not.  But if it is, it gave me a giggle.... This thread is the most positive ive been in months and it's coming after a loss.

Anyhow, i always kind of intended to get back to watching the games after the trade deadline/buyouts shook out.  I watched the last two.  This seems to be our final roster.  I'm on board with them 100%.  Too late to tank

[LarBrd33]

double

[myteamisbetterthanyours]

@chambers... For what it's worth, by your definition I think I pass.  Despite the fact I skipped watching the live games, I was MORE than present as a Celtic fan on these boards... I was downright annoying.  I remained acutely aware of the day-to-day happenings of this squad, conversed with my fellow Celtic fan on an obsessive level and shared my delusional opinions at every given opportunity.  I think a fair weather fan would have just stopped following the team entirely, showed up in the playoffs and said, "who is this Avery Brantley kid?"...  Personally I just felt if the organization was mailing in their games and we were heading towards blowing it up, I had no reason to waste my time watching them.

Also... I dont think you were calling me out particularly, but in my case I never felt like any of "the big 4" was the issue.  I knew ray, kg and pierce had game.  I was entirely against trading pierce for equal cap killing short-term downgrades like Rudy gay and danny granger, because they did nothing to solve our problems.  And I still dont know If I was quick to judge/wrong about anything I said (aside from calling Bradley a bum)... This team is still deeply flawed and undermanned.  The jury is still out.  But I said all along our only chance of competing was for a center to appear out of thin air... And KG appears to be that magical center.  The Bradley thing is fun for the moment... gives us a young guy to rally behind.  Not ready to anoint him a future star, though.  That said, I'm here to concede that if we match up with Indiana in the first round, a Rose-less Bulls in the 2nd round and Orlando in the 3rd round... we could THEORETICALLY make the Finals.  That's the best you'll get out of me right now.  This schedule could still destroy us. 

@myteamisbetterthanyours... Not sure if your rant was directed at me or not.  But if it is, it gave me a giggle.... This thread is the most positive ive been in months and it's coming after a loss.

Anyhow, i always kind of intended to get back to watching the games after the trade deadline/buyouts shook out.  I watched the last two.  This seems to be our final roster.  I'm on board with them 100%.  Too late to tank

As long as your on board 100% i can't be mad at your doubts with the current roster.  It's not perfect.  We need a center no doubt but I like this team, as flawed as it is.  We compete, even with all our limitations/injuries/etc.  Thats all you need to do in the playoffs.. Compete, and you have a chance against anybody. Especially with 3 Hall Of Famers, a top 5 PG and the 3rd ranked defense in the NBA.

[mctyson]

Very entertaining post.  Completely agree with your sentiments about entertainment - you need a reason to watch the team on a nightly basis.  Previously, that reason was "will we make the 7 or 8 seed and who might trounce us in the first round?"  Now that question is "can we stay healthy and keep the the good vibes flowing?"

[birdwatcher]

Being 100% honest with you, and I don't mean any offense, but this just seems like the response of a typical fair weather fan- hates when we lose, loves when we win.

This comment infuriates me to no end. You've been around the boards long enough to know he's not a fair weather fan. And what do you have to do to be a "real fan"?
Do you have to have some sort of unwavering faith no matter how bad your team is doing? Are you only allowed to judge a team when it's doing well?
The whole fair weather fan/pink hat tag is garbage.

Perhaps 'fair weather' was the wrong tag. But you know what the meaning of fair weather is?
It is:

not reliable or present in situations of hardship or difficulty (esp in the phrase fair-weather friend)

I meant whatever I meant along the premise that as soon as things are bad in the win/loss column, regardless of injuries or schedule etc, 99% of Celtics fans will CRUCIFY this team to no end. As soon as we start winning a few games it's a complete reversal/contradiction.

examples:
Bradley sucks. Wrong.
Steimsma sucks. Wrong
Rondo should be traded. Wrong.
KG is over the hill. Wrong
Pierce is done.Wrong.
Ray is done.Wrong
Dooling is useless.Wrong.
Danny Ainge is a criminal for not doing anything and doing everything. Wrong.
We should have played Moore/Johnson and none of this would have happened. Wrong.
We should have gotten some second round picks for Pierce or Ray before deadline because they haven't got another run in them and now we're left with nothing but corpses and a guaranteed first round exit. Wrong.
There's no way this team can get out of second round. Wrong.

At least Larbrd33 has the balls to say he was slightly quick to pass judgements on some of the above scenarios- the other 99% of Celtics fans are reactive this way but have no idea of their own pessimism.
Doesn't make them bad fans- but it sure does infuriate me. Peoples decisions are based on emotion and less on statistics and logic when it comes to sports teams.

I'm just wondering how many people will revert back to their pre-all star break convictions of how bad we suck and call for Ainge's head if we lose 10 of the next 12 games and bow out of the first round, even under more injury stress or any tough luck.

I definitely understand what it means. But what I also recognize is that it can be very hard for people to embrace the success of the eighties, go through the torture of the mid-90's-2000's, then see this team resurrect itself and contend for 4 or 5 years, only to see it take shape like the end of the last big three era. It's easy to have been such a big fan during those hard years, see it payoff in the new big three era and then feel such a huge let down and some impending dread when you see it possibly happening again. It's a natural ebb and flow of sports, but this franchise is an exception because of all the great successes it has had.
If this team was built as well as the Spurs, who are transitioning very nicely out of there "Big 3", or if it proves to be competitive through it's rebuilding process like say, the Patriots (two totally different sports, I know), then I think you'd see a lot less of the "fair weather" reactions.
Look, we all deal with things differently and I certainly don't blame the guy for reacting to what he sees. And I also realize you weren't trying to attack him (and he doesn't need me to defend him), but why even bother calling him out when he was simply trying to say he was seeing it all in a new light?
No offense to you either, it just irks me to see someone call out a fan for being "fair weather" if they're worried about the team and doesn't think we're doing well, or calling someone a "Homer" when we were in the 10th or 11th spot in the east there were still people saying we were going to come back and win #18.
We are all fans, that is why we're here.

[chambers]

@chambers... For what it's worth, by your definition I think I pass.  Despite the fact I skipped watching the live games, I was MORE than present as a Celtic fan on these boards... I was downright annoying.  I remained acutely aware of the day-to-day happenings of this squad, conversed with my fellow Celtic fan on an obsessive level and shared my delusional opinions at every given opportunity.  I think a fair weather fan would have just stopped following the team entirely, showed up in the playoffs and said, "who is this Avery Brantley kid?"...  Personally I just felt if the organization was mailing in their games and we were heading towards blowing it up, I had no reason to waste my time watching them.

Also... I dont think you were calling me out particularly, but in my case I never felt like any of "the big 4" was the issue.  I knew ray, kg and pierce had game.  I was entirely against trading pierce for equal cap killing short-term downgrades like Rudy gay and danny granger, because they did nothing to solve our problems.  And I still dont know If I was quick to judge/wrong about anything I said (aside from calling Bradley a bum)... This team is still deeply flawed and undermanned.  The jury is still out.  But I said all along our only chance of competing was for a center to appear out of thin air... And KG appears to be that magical center.  The Bradley thing is fun for the moment... gives us a young guy to rally behind.  Not ready to anoint him a future star, though.  That said, I'm here to concede that if we match up with Indiana in the first round, a Rose-less Bulls in the 2nd round and Orlando in the 3rd round... we could THEORETICALLY make the Finals.  That's the best you'll get out of me right now.  This schedule could still destroy us. 

@myteamisbetterthanyours... Not sure if your rant was directed at me or not.  But if it is, it gave me a giggle.... This thread is the most positive ive been in months and it's coming after a loss.

Anyhow, i always kind of intended to get back to watching the games after the trade deadline/buyouts shook out.  I watched the last two.  This seems to be our final roster.  I'm on board with them 100%.  Too late to tank

Oh, you do pass. I'm not doubting your loyalty as a fan of the Celtics, I'm just trying to point out the stereo typical roller coaster of emotions that come with loving your favorite team.
I mean about 2 weeks ago I think I read something about you not watching the team since January and asking why you should bother.
I think the point I was trying to make is that even for knowledgable fans like yourself, the dissappointment of losing can create a 'sky is falling' sentiment from the most casual Celtics fan to the most desperate, green blooded/one eyed scumbags like most of us here 

Observing your posts over the season has been very entertaining because you understand basketball but you also (like everyone else, myself included) let your emotions justify that basketball knowledge on developing/changing situations- even when the season is only half way (or less) done.