When are some fans going to learn to not dismiss this team?

[CoachBo]

The team is playing good basketball.

But it is extremely premature and unsupported to proclaim this team a championship contender.

We are still old, still injury-prone and still wildly vulnerable to being reduced to 4 on 5 in the offensive halfcourt with Rondo.

Good run, but this team isn't going to win a title.

lol. there's always one Rondo hater.
How bout 'Without Rondo this team has zero chance at getting out of the first round of the playoffs'.

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

Always someone who can't disagree without some silly vapid label.

See you in the playoffs, when games slow down and start trickling away in the fourth quarter ... Just like last year.

[Celtics18]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

[clover]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

By that standard, you could be looking at upwards of 2 points of production per game--and you would have to cut that in half to translate it to the real world.

But point taken, Rondo drives their offense.

[nickagneta]

I don't think the Celtics are truly legit championship contenders. The point of this post is that proclaiming that there is no chance at playoffs or division titles or certain seeds or even a championship is dismissive of a team that simply won't quit and has the heart of a champion.

Are there flaws on this team, for sure. But KG, Pierce, Rondo, and Ray are warriors and won't give in easily.

[jdz101]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

How is rondo doing a 5 foot sideways bounce pass to Paul Pierce (who makes a trailing 3 pointer) 3 points of production for rondo?

I get that he's excellent at getting our shooters looks but he's not producing those points a lot of the time.

[Celtics18]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

How is rondo doing a 5 foot sideways bounce pass to Paul Pierce (who makes a trailing 3 pointer) 3 points of production for rondo?

I get that he's excellent at getting our shooters looks but he's not producing those points a lot of the time.

On the other hand, when he gets in the lane, and the entire defense is collapsing and scrambling and he finds a wide open teammate for a 12 footer, a three pointer, or layup, shouldn't he get at least even credit for that bucket.

Maybe we should make every assist worth one point and every assisted bucket worth one point and then divvy up the credit that way.

The point for me is that at this point I don't really care about who is getting the credit.  Rondo, Garnett, and Pierce are in a really nice flow together right now, clearly the best they've been all season.  This helps role players like Bass, Bradley, and Stiemsma play their roles and makes everything look easier. 

This is how this team has to play.  For those who constantly went to separate out the performances to pick one guy who is clearly the hero and one guy who is clearly the goat, you are missing the point of this team.

[jdz101]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

How is rondo doing a 5 foot sideways bounce pass to Paul Pierce (who makes a trailing 3 pointer) 3 points of production for rondo?

I get that he's excellent at getting our shooters looks but he's not producing those points a lot of the time.

On the other hand, when he gets in the lane, and the entire defense is collapsing and scrambling and he finds a wide open teammate for a 12 footer, a three pointer, or layup, shouldn't he get at least even credit for that bucket.

Maybe we should make every assist worth one point and every assisted bucket worth one point and then divvy up the credit that way.

The point for me is that at this point I don't really care about who is getting the credit.  Rondo, Garnett, and Pierce are in a really nice flow together right now, clearly the best they've been all season.  This helps role players like Bass, Bradley, and Stiemsma play their roles and makes everything look easier. 

This is how this team has to play.  For those who constantly went to separate out the performances to pick one guy who is clearly the hero and one guy who is clearly the goat, you are missing the point of this team.

One point of credit per assist seems fair. The "very muscular gandhi", "R2", "P2", "The big fish", and the "Rabid Honey Badger" have all been impressive over this stretch. Let's not forget contributions from the "Wisconsin Steamboat"...

[cltc5]

^shouldnt steimsma be considered the rabid honey badger seeing as he's blonde and from Wisconsin university?

I think we'd be a better team if we had a better coach and it's really a shame.  We have young talen that we may not have ever seen if it wasn't for injuries.  Perhaps there success could be attributed to the coaching they received?  I'll slant that in docs favor because Bradley nor steimsma are superstars but they have fit in well

[SHAQATTACK]

 I think the good times will continue. But If Ray re-enters the starting lineup, I predict the ship will start sinking again.

I was thinking or worrying ,this might be case as well. Probally unfounded by me ...just seems AB adds that extra energy on defense that gets the old guys fired up.  Ray moves alot on offense looking for his shot , but that all comes at a huge loss of defense pressure/effort AB puts on the other  guard ; this disrupts the other teams flow of getting a play started and screws up their timming. Leading to poor plays,TO's and quick jumpshots.

Now that AB can hit the 15 ft shot with some consistancy and make a few nices cuts for buckets , I'm beginning to think this tips the scales in his favor of starting.

Ray off the bench to lead the way and kill the opponents 2 string seems like a good plan.

When AB is starting the opponents don't seem to me anyway to get off to a quick start or get a jump on us like at the beginning of the season.  

ROndo seems to play better with AB in too. ROndo doesn't seem as tired and frustrated with AB helping him.  

But I suppose Doc knows best and will reinsert Ray in at the starting postion.

[CelticG1]

 I think the good times will continue. But If Ray re-enters the starting lineup, I predict the ship will start sinking again.

I was thinking or worrying ,this might be case as well. Probally unfounded by me ...just seems AB adds that extra energy on defense that gets the old guys fired up.  Ray moves alot on offense looking for his shot , but that all comes at a huge loss of defense pressure/effort AB puts on the other  guard ; this disrupts the other teams flow of getting a play started and screws up their timming. Leading to poor plays,TO's and quick jumpshots.

Now that AB can hit the 15 ft shot with some consistancy and make a few nices cuts for buckets , I'm beginning to think this tips the scales in his favor of starting.

Ray off the bench to lead the way and kill the opponents 2 string seems like a good plan.

When AB is starting the opponents don't seem to me anyway to get off to a quick start or get a jump on us like at the beginning of the season.  

ROndo seems to play better with AB in too. ROndo doesn't seem as tired and frustrated with AB helping him.  

But I suppose Doc knows best and will reinsert Ray in at the starting postion.

I just posted this in another thread:

I know people say bring Ray off the bench for scoring but why not do that with Bradley?   We could just increase his minutes off the bench and let him have more leeway. Set some plays for him where hes shooting off picks, running his 1-man fast break?

At this point it almost seems easier for bradley to create his own offense than Ray who is more of a catch and shoot, run off picks, receiving perfect passes from Rondo. With Ray on the second team he will just have to handle the ball more (not his strength) and have weaker players dishing it to him all while having the opposing defense smother him.

Am I wrong?

[Chief]

 I think the good times will continue. But If Ray re-enters the starting lineup, I predict the ship will start sinking again.

I was thinking or worrying ,this might be case as well. Probably unfounded by me ...just seems AB adds that extra energy on defense that gets the old guys fired up.  Ray moves alot on offense looking for his shot , but that all comes at a huge loss of defense pressure/effort AB puts on the other  guard ; this disrupts the other teams flow of getting a play started and screws up their timming. Leading to poor plays,TO's and quick jumpshots.

Now that AB can hit the 15 ft shot with some consistancy and make a few nices cuts for buckets , I'm beginning to think this tips the scales in his favor of starting.

Ray off the bench to lead the way and kill the opponents 2 string seems like a good plan.

When AB is starting the opponents don't seem to me anyway to get off to a quick start or get a jump on us like at the beginning of the season.  

ROndo seems to play better with AB in too. ROndo doesn't seem as tired and frustrated with AB helping him.  

But I suppose Doc knows best and will reinsert Ray in at the starting postion.

I just posted this in another thread:

I know people say bring Ray off the bench for scoring but why not do that with Bradley?   We could just increase his minutes off the bench and let him have more leeway. Set some plays for him where hes shooting off picks, running his 1-man fast break?

At this point it almost seems easier for bradley to create his own offense than Ray who is more of a catch and shoot, run off picks, receiving perfect passes from Rondo. With Ray on the second team he will just have to handle the ball more (not his strength) and have weaker players dishing it to him all while having the opposing defense smother him.

Am I wrong?

No, not wrong. It's all opinion. My thinking is that Ray, future HOF, probably should be leading the bench mob (Jason Terry style). Let the veteran lead the team when KG and Pierce are resting. But I'd bet good money Doc puts Ray back into the starting line-up.

The one thing everyone agrees on is that playing with Rondo makes you better.

[Tai]

Now if Ray and Doc can check their egos at the door and let Ray be our super sixth man, I think the good times will continue. But If Ray re-enters the starting lineup, I predict the ship will start sinking again.

So Doc starts Ray over Bradley because of ego? Not because Ray's one of the better shooters in the league and teams actually fear him more than they do Bradley?

And while we're talking about the defensive end, it's clear Bradley can be overpowered by bigger 2s. You can't say the same thing concerning Ray.

[dysgenic]

Now if Ray and Doc can check their egos at the door and let Ray be our super sixth man, I think the good times will continue. But If Ray re-enters the starting lineup, I predict the ship will start sinking again.

So Doc starts Ray over Bradley because of ego? Not because Ray's one of the better shooters in the league and teams actually fear him more than they do Bradley?

And while we're talking about the defensive end, it's clear Bradley can be overpowered by bigger 2s. You can't say the same thing concerning Ray.

I definetely agree with the last part.  Ideally AB guards the other team's 1, but when you play AB and Rondo at the same time, there is often going to be at least 1 backcourt size mismatch; no matter what.  It's so hard to be a championship calibre team with guys that are so small.  Tommy Heinsohn addressed this earlier in the year...he said the only way a starting backcourt of Rondo and AB works is if you play an uptempto style, and we all know that in the playoffs it's hard to play an uptempto style consistently.  Longterm, I don't think it can work.

[Celtics18]

Gimme a break. Rondo contributes 37 points of production a night with his passing and scoring, not to mention his defense.
Always one hater.

I agree with you but are you calling an assist two points of production?

That is a stretch.

I don't think that's a stretch at all, an assist being a pass that leads directly to a basket.  Actually, when you consider three pointers, an assist is actually worth closer to 2.2 points.

How is rondo doing a 5 foot sideways bounce pass to Paul Pierce (who makes a trailing 3 pointer) 3 points of production for rondo?

I get that he's excellent at getting our shooters looks but he's not producing those points a lot of the time.

On the other hand, when he gets in the lane, and the entire defense is collapsing and scrambling and he finds a wide open teammate for a 12 footer, a three pointer, or layup, shouldn't he get at least even credit for that bucket.

Maybe we should make every assist worth one point and every assisted bucket worth one point and then divvy up the credit that way.

The point for me is that at this point I don't really care about who is getting the credit.  Rondo, Garnett, and Pierce are in a really nice flow together right now, clearly the best they've been all season.  This helps role players like Bass, Bradley, and Stiemsma play their roles and makes everything look easier. 

This is how this team has to play.  For those who constantly went to separate out the performances to pick one guy who is clearly the hero and one guy who is clearly the goat, you are missing the point of this team.

One point of credit per assist seems fair. The "very muscular gandhi", "R2", "P2", "The big fish", and the "Rabid Honey Badger" have all been impressive over this stretch. Let's not forget contributions from the "Wisconsin Steamboat"...

If you do that, it would only be fair to give one point for an assisted basket as well.  For threes, it would be 1.5 and 1.5 apiece.

I reckon that using this formula, Rajon Rondo would surface as one of the league's top point producers.

[Dante]

Define what you mean by "dismiss". That a lot of us are sure that we are not going to win # 18 this year? Only teenagers can dream about it being possible: they also believe in miracles.
But miracles do not happen; those situations have a logical explanation. Magicians do not make people disappear, they create that illusion, but it doesnt happen in real life. Winning it al this year would be one of those miracles. But grownups know miracles do not happen; so whats the beef? Accept reality.