Will the C's renounce all free agents this offseason?

[JSD]

Is it fair to think that more than likely Ainge will renounce all free agents and then proceed from there this offseason?

[Chris]

I think this is actually pretty unlikely.  He might renounce some of them, but unless he falls in love with a particular free agent, I think he will find that he could have more value and flexibility to try and not renounce everyone.

[the_Bird]

Is there a deadline by which players have to be renounced?  Can you wait to renounce players' Bird rights until you come to an agreement with a free agent, or are ready to make a trade?

[JSD]

Outside of a sign and trade Allen or Bass move, I don't see where the value is in not renouncing most if not all of these guys.

With the amount they'd be under the cap, they could bring back anyone they wanted to anyway.

[Who]

No, I don't think so. No value in it until Danny decides he needs the cap space to sign or trade for someone. Until then, best to keep everyone's bird rights. Gives more flexibility (for re-signing players and/or for configuring trades).

[MVP]

Is there a deadline to renounce players rights? I thought you can renounce someone's rights anytime, so I think Danny will keep most everyone's rights and if someone comes along who you need cap space for and is worth it then we can renounce rights accordingly. I guess if we can't come to an agreement with KG relatively quick we would have to think about renouncing his rights since he would be eating up all the cap.

[Chris]

Is there a deadline to renounce players rights? I thought you can renounce someone's rights anytime, so I think Danny will keep most everyone's rights and if someone comes along who you need cap space for and is worth it then we can renounce rights accordingly. I guess if we can't come to an agreement with KG relatively quick we would have to think about renouncing his rights since he would be eating up all the cap.

Exactly.  There is absolutely no benefit to renouncing a players rights before you are ready to use the cap space.  Even with Kevin, you don't renounce his rights until you have a need for the cap space. 

The C's are in an interesting situation where the guys they would renounce are very likely better basketball players than the majority of the free agents they will be looking at.  So, it makes little sense to cut them loose any earlier than you need to.

[JSD]

Is there a deadline to renounce players rights? I thought you can renounce someone's rights anytime, so I think Danny will keep most everyone's rights and if someone comes along who you need cap space for and is worth it then we can renounce rights accordingly. I guess if we can't come to an agreement with KG relatively quick we would have to think about renouncing his rights since he would be eating up all the cap.

Exactly.  There is absolutely no benefit to renouncing a players rights before you are ready to use the cap space.  Even with Kevin, you don't renounce his rights until you have a need for the cap space. 

The C's are in an interesting situation where the guys they would renounce are very likely better basketball players than the majority of the free agents they will be looking at.  So, it makes little sense to cut them loose any earlier than you need to.

That might be true about free agency, but don't forget the teams that will be calling and offering talent for space (ala Minn sending Al Jefferson to Utah). The Celtics need to put themselves in position for such a move. If they could land say, Elton Brand or Corey Maggete and a 1st rounder for nothing but 1 year of cap space it is probably worth it.

[slamtheking]

No, I don't think so. No value in it until Danny decides he needs the cap space to sign or trade for someone. Until then, best to keep everyone's bird rights. Gives more flexibility (for re-signing players and/or for configuring trades).

This.

The advantage to renouncing your own FA's is to free up cap holds impacting cap space for other FA's.  The other option is to resign your own FA's to new lesser contracts and cut the cap hold that way.  unfortunately, that cuts into the cap too.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

The C's are in an interesting situation where the guys they would renounce are very likely better basketball players than the majority of the free agents they will be looking at.

This is a great point. Outside of any possible trades or free-agent signings, I'd love to see the Cs bring back Bass, Pietrus, Green and Stiemsma. Bass is, at the very least, a solid backup PF, Pietrus is great for his defense and 3pt. shooting, Green has a lot of promise, and Stiemsma is developing quite nicely.

[Chris]

The C's are in an interesting situation where the guys they would renounce are very likely better basketball players than the majority of the free agents they will be looking at.

This is a great point. Outside of any possible trades or free-agent signings, I'd love to see the Cs bring back Bass, Pietrus, Green and Stiemsma. Bass is, at the very least, a solid backup PF, Pietrus is great for his defense and 3pt. shooting, Green has a lot of promise, and Stiemsma is developing quite nicely.

Bass is a guy who really scares me this offseason.  He is making himself a lot of money this year, and I am afraid Danny will end up paying it, even though he is an incredibly replacable player.  He is an incredible value at 1 year, $4 million, but when teams start throwing $25-30 million at him (or more) this summer, I hope Danny walks away (or works out a sign and trade).

[dlpin]

Outside of a sign and trade Allen or Bass move, I don't see where the value is in not renouncing most if not all of these guys.

With the amount they'd be under the cap, they could bring back anyone they wanted to anyway.

But if they brought them back by using cap space after renouncing them, they would be giving up the rights to use the MLE.

[JSD]

That's a good point about the MLE.


What gives them the ability to use the big MLE under the new rule? Is it being over the cap but under the LT?

[paintitgreen]

Agree with Chris. What's out there this year isn't that great. So whether the Cs renounce players depends on whether they'll actually use cap space. If they're not gonna use cap space, there's really no utility to renouncing free agent rights. They haven't used cap space for years, which is why they still have small cap holds for guys like Olowokandi, Dana Barros, Mark Bryant, Roshown McLeod, and a big hold ($8.3 mil) for Krstic.

I think that before deciding whether to pursue a trade for a guy like Jefferson or Josh Smith, or to make an offer to a restricted free agent like Hibbert or Gordon, Danny tries to resolve his own free agents first. Almost all of them have cap holds that far exceed what they'll actually get - KG $22.3 mil, Allen $15 mil, Green $11.1 mil, Bass $8.1 mil (if he doesn't take his $4.25 mil player option), Dooling $2.9 mil. So he'll want to figure out whether he can resign those guys, or sign and trade them, before renouncing them outright.

I don't know if he'll actually bring these guys back, but I do not expect him to renounce their rights without having figured out their market and sign-and-trade values.

But if they brought them back by using cap space after renouncing them, they would be giving up the rights to use the MLE.

As a team that paid the luxury tax this year, Boston would only have a $3 million MLE instead of the $5 million MLE that non-tax-paying but over-the-cap teams get, even if they don't project to be over the luxury line this year. But the new CBA also created a third MLE that can be used by teams that are under the cap during the offseason and use up all their available cap space on outside free agents. Once the space is used up, they still have a $2.5 mil MLE they can use for 1-2 more players. So the MLE isn't much of an incentive not to renounce, there's only a half million dollar difference between the MLE they get if they resign their own guys and go over the cap line as opposed to using their cap space to sign their own and other teams' players.

The incentive not to renounce is that if they have $25 mil in cap space, and they decide their best option is to supplement their roster of Pierce, Rondo, Bradley, Johnson, Moore and three rookies by bringing back KG, Ray, Green, Bass and Stiemsma, they're limited by that $25 million number if they've renounced their rights to those free agents. Then they could use $2.5 mil more on say Pietrus or another big. If they haven't renounced their rights, they can spend more than $25 million and keep all those guys, then use $3 mil on whatever they want to add. Their only constraint becomes the luxury line (you know they don't want to be paying the luxury tax for a team that's fighting to make the playoffs).

[Chris]

That's a good point about the MLE.


What gives them the ability to use the big MLE under the new rule? Is it being over the cap but under the LT?

Exactly.  If they are over the cap (or just choose to use cap holds rather than cap space), then they get to use the MLE, they get to take back 150% (or $5 million extra) in trades, and they also get the LLE, as long as they do not go more than $4 million over the luxury tax threshold.