Author Topic: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?  (Read 8246 times)

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Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 07:43:22 PM »

Offline Eja117

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A lot of the thrill left me that year Sheed was around and the entire team acted like they were just there to collect a check and didn't really care if he just jacked up 10 3s and made one of them.

They tried to flip a switch and almost got away with it, and it was very very hard to watch.

At that point it felt like I was watching one of the junior varsity Celtics championship teams. I had had higher hopes.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 08:29:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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"The Window" officially closed on April 3rd, 2011... it's almost been a full year since we stopped being relevant.  Some people seem to enjoy watching them, though.  Kinda like a former champ boxer well past his prime fighting in some exhibition at your local fairgrounds.  A lot of us would still pay $5 bucks to watch Mike Tyson fight some young amateur ... even if Tyson ended up getting embarrassed in the process it's still cool to see.  

Or maybe it's like going to a local casino to watch some washed up band play with half the members missing.  Like you'd probably still pay a few bucks to watch the Temptations sing at a musical festival.  Even though David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks are long-since dead and other members are long-since gone, at the very least you can see Otis Williams (one of the original members) and whatever other random black men he has up there.  Sure Williams doesn't have that same voice he once did, but he's still up there... they are still singing the same songs and wearing the same outfits and have some semblance of a connection to their glory years in the 60s.  Not at all the same, but worth a couple bucks.  

Kinda reminds me of the 2012 Celtics.  KG, Ray and Pierce are all a step closer to retirement and not the same singers they once were, but at least you can tune in to see the "big 4" do "big 4 things"... even if it ignores the fact that ubuntu is long-since dead and the other 11 guys who made up our 2008 champion (James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, Tony Allen, Sam Cassell, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, PJ Brown, Brian Scalabrine, etc) are long-since gone... still kinda fun to squint your eyes, plug your ears and pretend you're still watching a contender on stage... even if it's just a random group of black men wearing the same uniform doing a poor imitation of the glory days.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 08:44:23 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Here you go guys...

2008 Celtics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caSdaC7hSSE

2012 Celtics: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqcHYghPs7o

Go ahead... sing along, you know the songs!...

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2012, 09:53:25 PM »

Offline chambers

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The thrill will never be gone, for me.

As long as I see five Green Men hustling night in and night out, I'm good, and will always be good.

I first got on this bus in 1981, when a man named Larry caught my eye.

Fast forward to now? Still love this team, and will watch them whenever I can.

that almost brought a tear to my eye....
TP
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2012, 10:11:37 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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"The Window" officially closed on April 3rd, 2011... it's almost been a full year since we stopped being relevant.  Some people seem to enjoy watching them, though.  Kinda like a former champ boxer well past his prime fighting in some exhibition at your local fairgrounds.  A lot of us would still pay $5 bucks to watch Mike Tyson fight some young amateur ... even if Tyson ended up getting embarrassed in the process it's still cool to see.  

Or maybe it's like going to a local casino to watch some washed up band play with half the members missing.  Like you'd probably still pay a few bucks to watch the Temptations sing at a musical festival.  Even though David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks are long-since dead and other members are long-since gone, at the very least you can see Otis Williams (one of the original members) and whatever other random black men he has up there.  Sure Williams doesn't have that same voice he once did, but he's still up there... they are still singing the same songs and wearing the same outfits and have some semblance of a connection to their glory years in the 60s.  Not at all the same, but worth a couple bucks.  

Kinda reminds me of the 2012 Celtics.  KG, Ray and Pierce are all a step closer to retirement and not the same singers they once were, but at least you can tune in to see the "big 4" do "big 4 things"... even if it ignores the fact that ubuntu is long-since dead and the other 11 guys who made up our 2008 champion (James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, Tony Allen, Sam Cassell, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, PJ Brown, Brian Scalabrine, etc) are long-since gone... still kinda fun to squint your eyes, plug your ears and pretend you're still watching a contender on stage... even if it's just a random group of black men wearing the same uniform doing a poor imitation of the glory days.

Sadly this is the case. Our window closed with this core when threw rondo to the floor. That being said this team is like a mid majornin the NCAA tournament. They can upset anyone in a one and done type game aka a series, but they likely don't have the juice to make a run to the finals. They're a first round team I want no part of if I am Chicago or Miami.


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2012, 11:23:58 PM »

Offline chambers

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"The Window" officially closed on April 3rd, 2011... it's almost been a full year since we stopped being relevant.  Some people seem to enjoy watching them, though.  Kinda like a former champ boxer well past his prime fighting in some exhibition at your local fairgrounds.  A lot of us would still pay $5 bucks to watch Mike Tyson fight some young amateur ... even if Tyson ended up getting embarrassed in the process it's still cool to see.  

Or maybe it's like going to a local casino to watch some washed up band play with half the members missing.  Like you'd probably still pay a few bucks to watch the Temptations sing at a musical festival.  Even though David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks are long-since dead and other members are long-since gone, at the very least you can see Otis Williams (one of the original members) and whatever other random black men he has up there.  Sure Williams doesn't have that same voice he once did, but he's still up there... they are still singing the same songs and wearing the same outfits and have some semblance of a connection to their glory years in the 60s.  Not at all the same, but worth a couple bucks.  

Kinda reminds me of the 2012 Celtics.  KG, Ray and Pierce are all a step closer to retirement and not the same singers they once were, but at least you can tune in to see the "big 4" do "big 4 things"... even if it ignores the fact that ubuntu is long-since dead and the other 11 guys who made up our 2008 champion (James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, Tony Allen, Sam Cassell, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, PJ Brown, Brian Scalabrine, etc) are long-since gone... still kinda fun to squint your eyes, plug your ears and pretend you're still watching a contender on stage... even if it's just a random group of black men wearing the same uniform doing a poor imitation of the glory days.

You're saying if we had signed David West, Brandon Bass, Pietrus and Jeff Green was healthy and playing well that this team wouldn't have been a contender? The window has closed but it wasn't that early. This team has been one or two pieces away from being a contender for a while but the window certainly didn't close then.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2012, 03:57:58 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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"The Window" officially closed on April 3rd, 2011... it's almost been a full year since we stopped being relevant.  Some people seem to enjoy watching them, though.  Kinda like a former champ boxer well past his prime fighting in some exhibition at your local fairgrounds.  A lot of us would still pay $5 bucks to watch Mike Tyson fight some young amateur ... even if Tyson ended up getting embarrassed in the process it's still cool to see.  

Or maybe it's like going to a local casino to watch some washed up band play with half the members missing.  Like you'd probably still pay a few bucks to watch the Temptations sing at a musical festival.  Even though David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks are long-since dead and other members are long-since gone, at the very least you can see Otis Williams (one of the original members) and whatever other random black men he has up there.  Sure Williams doesn't have that same voice he once did, but he's still up there... they are still singing the same songs and wearing the same outfits and have some semblance of a connection to their glory years in the 60s.  Not at all the same, but worth a couple bucks.  

Kinda reminds me of the 2012 Celtics.  KG, Ray and Pierce are all a step closer to retirement and not the same singers they once were, but at least you can tune in to see the "big 4" do "big 4 things"... even if it ignores the fact that ubuntu is long-since dead and the other 11 guys who made up our 2008 champion (James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, Tony Allen, Sam Cassell, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, PJ Brown, Brian Scalabrine, etc) are long-since gone... still kinda fun to squint your eyes, plug your ears and pretend you're still watching a contender on stage... even if it's just a random group of black men wearing the same uniform doing a poor imitation of the glory days.

You're saying if we had signed David West, Brandon Bass, Pietrus and Jeff Green was healthy and playing well that this team wouldn't have been a contender? The window has closed but it wasn't that early. This team has been one or two pieces away from being a contender for a while but the window certainly didn't close then.
The window closed on April 3rd, 2011. 

If you'd like, you can watch it being closed around the 39 second mark of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lag38gB12uo&feature=player_detailpage#t=24s

Any false hope of having enough size to compete in the playoffs limped off the court and we haven't replaced it at any point in the past year.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 02:09:46 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Yes, I know it sounds like a U2 song. But, the question begs to be asked.

Celtics haven't really beaten any good teams this year(with few exceptoins). Doc always mentions "guys are tired" after every loss.

Compare the way KG and Pierce look now with how they looked back on 2008.

Which brings me to the question asked in the subject line

Surprisingly, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett both look very close to being the same caliber players that they were in 2008.  This (along with the development of Rajon Rondo into a superstar) is the main reason we have a dangerous team capable of making some noise come playoff time.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 02:23:19 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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A lot of the thrill left me that year Sheed was around and the entire team acted like they were just there to collect a check and didn't really care if he just jacked up 10 3s and made one of them.

They tried to flip a switch and almost got away with it, and it was very very hard to watch.

At that point it felt like I was watching one of the junior varsity Celtics championship teams. I had had higher hopes.
I tend to agree with this to some extent.  I think the thrill is there when they put in the effort to win.  They haven't done that in the regular season consistently since Sheed came to town and they developed the 'coasting' mentality.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 03:25:23 PM »

Offline RyNye

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Well, this Celtic squad isn't designed to be a "thrilling" team. They are a gritty defensive team, whose aim is to slow down the game and force the opponent to slog it out and fight. There's nothing inherently wrong with this strategy, but with an aging core and a brutally shortened schedule, it makes for some tough losses. I think people are really underestimating how bad this schedule really is for the Cs, and how much higher in the standings we would be in a regular schedule season.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 05:43:54 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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the thrill has never left me.  it started in the 80s and stuck with me through the heartache, highs, and lows.  i bleed green, therefore the thrill remains

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 05:49:07 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Yes, I know it sounds like a U2 song. But, the question begs to be asked.

Celtics haven't really beaten any good teams this year(with few exceptoins). Doc always mentions "guys are tired" after every loss.

Compare the way KG and Pierce look now with how they looked back on 2008.

Which brings me to the question asked in the subject line

Surprisingly, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett both look very close to being the same caliber players that they were in 2008.  This (along with the development of Rajon Rondo into a superstar) is the main reason we have a dangerous team capable of making some noise come playoff time.
I disagree, their overall efficiencies are the same but the amount of offensive burden they can carry has changed drastically. Also KG has clearly lost a lot of lift and ability to convert looks into dunks.

If you look at the 2007-2008 finals KG in the post and Pierce on the wing were the two sets we ran our entire offense through. They don't have the stamina or physical tools to do that anymore not for more than the occasional game here or there.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 05:52:08 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Your level of interest is going to vary based on whether or not the team is great or not for most people. That's just human nature, but I still follow the team as much as I can. I just don't schedule my life around watching games nearly as much and I mentally prep myself more for losses (which isn't as fun as screaming over every possession and knowing the team is the favorite night in and night out)

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 05:57:40 PM »

Offline Greenbean

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"The Window" officially closed on April 3rd, 2011... it's almost been a full year since we stopped being relevant.  Some people seem to enjoy watching them, though.  Kinda like a former champ boxer well past his prime fighting in some exhibition at your local fairgrounds.  A lot of us would still pay $5 bucks to watch Mike Tyson fight some young amateur ... even if Tyson ended up getting embarrassed in the process it's still cool to see.  

Or maybe it's like going to a local casino to watch some washed up band play with half the members missing.  Like you'd probably still pay a few bucks to watch the Temptations sing at a musical festival.  Even though David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks are long-since dead and other members are long-since gone, at the very least you can see Otis Williams (one of the original members) and whatever other random black men he has up there.  Sure Williams doesn't have that same voice he once did, but he's still up there... they are still singing the same songs and wearing the same outfits and have some semblance of a connection to their glory years in the 60s.  Not at all the same, but worth a couple bucks.  

Kinda reminds me of the 2012 Celtics.  KG, Ray and Pierce are all a step closer to retirement and not the same singers they once were, but at least you can tune in to see the "big 4" do "big 4 things"... even if it ignores the fact that ubuntu is long-since dead and the other 11 guys who made up our 2008 champion (James Posey, Kendrick Perkins, Eddie House, Tony Allen, Sam Cassell, Leon Powe, Glen Davis, PJ Brown, Brian Scalabrine, etc) are long-since gone... still kinda fun to squint your eyes, plug your ears and pretend you're still watching a contender on stage... even if it's just a random group of black men wearing the same uniform doing a poor imitation of the glory days.

Why do you waste your time on Celtics Blog if you aren't interested in this year's version of the team?

I feel like you are always looking to mock fans that still enjoy watching the team. It's a tired act.

Personally, I realize the potential of this team is not as a championship contender.

I enjoy watching this team because I am a fan of the Celtics. If they beat a great team, it is exciting because they are over achieving.

It's all about setting proper expectations and watching professional basketball for me. Still pretty thrilling for me. actually.

Re: Realistically, is the Celtics "thrill" gone?
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 06:36:37 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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A lot of the thrill left me that year Sheed was around and the entire team acted like they were just there to collect a check and didn't really care if he just jacked up 10 3s and made one of them.

They tried to flip a switch and almost got away with it, and it was very very hard to watch.

At that point it felt like I was watching one of the junior varsity Celtics championship teams. I had had higher hopes.
I tend to agree with this to some extent.  I think the thrill is there when they put in the effort to win.  They haven't done that in the regular season consistently since Sheed came to town and they developed the 'coasting' mentality.

This idea strikes me as less than genuine, blaming a loss of excitement in watching the team on a supposed lack of consistent effort. This old and weakened team is running solely on effort and heart. Grinding through the 2010 playoffs was solely on effort and heart. Kevin Garnett's ability to maintain his place as a legitimate force in this league even though he has almost no lift left in his legs is based solely on effort and heart.

To the extent the 2010 regular season was when fans lost their thrill in watching the team, I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of effort - it has to do with the beginning of the Celtics not getting results. The 08 Celtics were 66-16 and won the title. The 09 Celtics were 44-11 when Garnett got hurt. The 2010 Celtics started 23-5. That's a combined record of 133-32, just a ridiculous run. Nobody was talking about a lack of effort in December 2009.

But their age and lack of depth really started to catch up with them in the middle third of the 2010 season. They struggled to go on road trips and play back-to-backs. Garnett, who has always been the heart of this Celtics group and the key to their success, was playing on a surgically repaired knee and felt his mortality for the first time. The core of the team was old, which generally leads to more injuries.

They didn't stop trying, though it was easy to try to blame the struggles on that because Rasheed was here. The team just didn't have it in the tank anymore, and they weren't as comparatively great anymore. But the fact that they never lost their intense desire to compete is the reason they were able, despite being dead and buried by all national media accounts, to rally back and come within one quarter (and maybe an injury) of winning the 2010 Finals.  

(To a lesser extent, it happened last year too. Though everybody was ready for the changing of the guard and the death of the Celtics, they came out and busted ass to the tune of a 46-15 record to start the year. But again, their age and injuries took a toll, and they looked like what national prognosticators had pegged them to be - an old team that couldn't compete with the likes of Chicago and Miami. Still, they didn't quit when they went down 0-2 to Miami and instead came out and pushed the Heat around in Game 3, even after Wade dislocated Rondo's elbow. I'll stand by my opinion that that Celtics team beats the Heat if Rondo had two arms - his second arm is worth at least a point in Game 4, and we saw Miami turtle when they got tied up at 2 by Dallas and no longer felt invincible. Celtics were in Miami's head. All on heart and effort.)

I look at this group and one of the reasons I'm glad Ainge didn't sell off the old guys is that they DO still have that effort and that pride. Whoever thinks the Celtics were getting a first rounder for any of the Big 3 is dreaming. They're too old and expensive for any team that is not currently competitive. And pretty much all of the contending teams that might want them either didn't have first rounders (e.g., Clippers, Dallas), or couldn't match salaries and/or would require the Celtics to take on a bunch of extra future salary to make the swap (Chicago, Miami, San Antonio, Orlando). There's not that much of a market for old players with high salaries who might or might not have a little left in the tank (see Camby going to Houston for a mid-second round pick). First round picks were highly valued this year by everybody except New Jersey. (Cleveland took on $6 mil in salary and gave up a decent point guard for a late first rounder; Golden State took on $12 mil or so in extra salary for a late first rounder.)

I'd prefer to see these guys play in Celtics uniforms while the next championship team is built because I don't know how long it'll be before we see another group of guys who are proud to wear the jersey and who I'm proud to have as the cornerstones of the team I follow, whether they're top title contenders or not. But I will appreciate these guys as long as I can. Pierce, KG, and Ray are proud to be Celtics and show it every night, whether their game is on or not. So I'll feel a thrill at watching them be part of the Celtics legacy until they're gone.

And in my opinion, if you've lost all pleasure in watching the Celtics, it can only be because of results, not how the game is played. In which case, are you really following a team / the players or do you just want to follow a team when it wins?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 06:42:45 PM by paintitgreen »
Go Celtics.