Rondo is going to be an issue next year.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

lets not forget that Derrick Rose who is a player who some claim "goes hard every night" has finally had that catch up to him as he has missed a TON of games this year

Last I checked, guys like Jordan, Olajuwon, KG, CP3, Nash, Kobe go hard every night and on every posession.  The type of comments being made to "support" Rondo are really getting pathetic.  So it's okay to be lazy when you feel like it?  It hasn't kept Rondo in the lineup as he's been out with injuries over the past couple of years.

There's really no way to prevent injuries; some of them are just freak accidents.  You can play soft all game long, and it only take on play to have a season ending injury.  Players who truly want to complete and win give it their full effort all the time.

OH MY....You put Los Nash in that category?  Los Nash hasn't gone hard on defense on any possession since maybe high school.  He really hasn't gone on defense at all.  Wow.  He stays healthy and fresh because he only plays half of the game in the minutes he's in.


It's also a reach to put Paul in that category as he's almost as inconsistent as Rondo.

Exactly. It is like people don't even watch other teams and accept all the hype and build up the myths of these other players. Nash has been a one side of the court player his whole career. He has never played D. Chris Paul didn't give a hoot all of last year. Deron Williams has mailed in the majority of this season. But somehow on the one hand it is all out and on the other it is an issue. Harrumph.

[mgent]

Both of you are wrong.  Dino, you claim people don't watch and just build up the hype, and then you take a hyped up fact like Nash being a bad defender and advance the myth that he only tries on offense.  I'm curious how often you watch Nash because he actually gives his all and plays as hard as he can on D.  I'm not sure I've ever once seen him take a possession off.  He does whatever he can to keep his man in front of him, fact of the matter is every single night he is outmatched in strength and foot speed.  Huge difference between playing bad defense (Dirk, Nate, House) and the guys that are so worried about offense they don't play it (TMac, Melo, Harris)

I can't see any basis whatsoever for calling out Nash's defensive effort.  Could you explain your reasoning and how that outweighs his physical deficiencies?

[Eja117]

Rondo wasn't the only one with a lack of effort the last 2 years though. I would say everyone except KG is guilty to some extent of going into autopilot, especially at this point in the season. I really believe that this team preferes to play the heat or the bulls in the 1st round and are just waiting it out until then.

I agree, but it's most important for Rondo not to do it and he's youngest with the least excuse.

[2short]

ugh lots of things to think about on this one which i'm sure i'll miss
steve nash does try his hardest on every play, always has, buy is a fighter,he just isn't that good at defense. when he was "mvp" he should not have one it because he was only an offensive player, now that he is older his defense has gotten worse
BUT he does work as hard as he can at every play no doubt

gonna have to finish this later, timing

[mqtcelticsfan]

I don't think there's an issue in terms of effort with Rondo. It's hard for any player to play 36 minutes a night in a condensed season at the pace he plays at and not look sluggish at times.

[OmarSekou]

So the logic is, if you go hard every night you could get injured.. So pick your spots and dont go hard ALL the time to reduce the risk of injury?Anyone ever watch hockey?

How come they then are able to go balls to the walls every single shift? Theyre flying around with sharp objects attached to their feet and sticks in their hands. That fact in itself puts them at greater risk of injury. They rarely complain about their maladies and its few and far between that you can find any whos drive and motivation are questioned on a nightly basis.

Why shouldnt we expect the same grit and determination from Basketball players. Call me old school if you will but i want to watch guys who are going hard every single possesion. For that i will always root for them win or lose.

In hockey they have line shifts that help guys conserve stamina. The defense can rest some when the puck is with the offense and vice-versa. It's a completely different sport and hockey players are tougher than basketball players.

Basketball is about endurance. There aren't too many distance runners who sprint the whole race. Through the course of a game and the course of a season it's smart to pace yourself. That doesn't mean guys aren't trying. Rondo has made some amazing hustle plays and is always playing banged up. But playing hard every possession isn't smart for someone who puts in as many minutes as Rondo and has his build and style of play.

Guys like Bradley have to bring it because they play limited minutes and it's how they get on the court. Physically and mentally, KG is not normal. Even then he used to get criticized because he couldn't "raise his game when it mattered."

The last two games were a good barometer of Rondo. He didn't bring it when it would have gotten us a W and brought it in a game we lost. He gets stuck playing to the level of his competition too much. He has to set the pace more.

[OmarSekou]

lets not forget that Derrick Rose who is a player who some claim "goes hard every night" has finally had that catch up to him as he has missed a TON of games this year

So the logic is, if you go hard every night you could get injured.. So pick your spots and dont go hard ALL the time to reduce the risk of injury?Anyone ever watch hockey?

How come they then are able to go balls to the walls every single shift? Theyre flying around with sharp objects attached to their feet and sticks in their hands. That fact in itself puts them at greater risk of injury. They rarely complain about their maladies and its few and far between that you can find any whos drive and motivation are questioned on a nightly basis.

Why shouldnt we expect the same grit and determination from Basketball players. Call me old school if you will but i want to watch guys who are going hard every single possesion. For that i will always root for them win or lose.

How many zero-point, five assist games has Rose had playing significant minutes?

Guarantee all of you that Doc Rivers would be rolling his eyes at the Rondo Excuse Machine on this blog - and that he wants more consistent effort from Rondo every night.

  Doc Rivers would understand that Rose is always the number one shooting option on offense while Rondo's first responsibility is generally to get easy baskets for his teammates. He'd then get to the obvious conclusion that, good game or bad, Rose is much less likely to have a low scoring game than Rondo. We've seen Rondo dominate games where he only takes a few shots, if Rose or Westbrook or a host of others scored that little they'd be invisible on the court. The "Rondo Excuse Machine" is that point guards can do more to help a team win than score, shocking as that might sound to you.

Shocking as this might sound to you I thought an "elite point guard", was generally expected to be able to do both in an efficient manner, no? Maybe we have different definitions of elite point guards but Rondo has never shyed from putting himself at the top of the list. And i feel that if he's gonna be compared with the top tier in both his own eyes and many fans and posters here on CB he needs to be dependable on both sides of the ball on a consistent and nightly basis. Thats what the "elite" guys do in my opinion.

We have the same definition. One of the few times this is actually true but it's an issue of semantics. I believe efficient means getting high production without wasting effort and it seems your argument is efficient means going all out, all the time.

Rondo is as dependable as other elite PGs on a nightly basis as far as overall production. His career statistics support that. He's not as dependable at getting points and he gambles more on defense (overall he's among the best defensive PGs in the league).

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

Ok, well, that is a valid distinction, re. Nash. That said, and I agree entirely he never should have won multiple, let alone one, MVP, I've never felt he really goes his all every minute of every game (and, truly, no player does). Maybe then he just isn't the intelligent player every one makes him out to be, because form watching him play, yes, of course he is a bad defender physically, but given his attributes that make him a good offensive player is there now way he could not make himself into even a passable defender? He is an abysmal defender. No one of his supposed intelligence, ability or, the issue here, diligence should be as bad as he is. So, for all his perceived huffing and puffing, and I would argue he does slack on the defensive end, has his effort in the gym and video room there? For as good as he is offensively there is no doubt he should be better than he is defensively, and that is being charitable and hoping he could meet the weakened standard of passable.

[Celtics18]

Steve Nash once got a coach fired because he had the audacity to ask the Phoenix Suns to play defense. 

[BballTim]

lets not forget that Derrick Rose who is a player who some claim "goes hard every night" has finally had that catch up to him as he has missed a TON of games this year

So the logic is, if you go hard every night you could get injured.. So pick your spots and dont go hard ALL the time to reduce the risk of injury?Anyone ever watch hockey?

How come they then are able to go balls to the walls every single shift? Theyre flying around with sharp objects attached to their feet and sticks in their hands. That fact in itself puts them at greater risk of injury. They rarely complain about their maladies and its few and far between that you can find any whos drive and motivation are questioned on a nightly basis.

Why shouldnt we expect the same grit and determination from Basketball players. Call me old school if you will but i want to watch guys who are going hard every single possesion. For that i will always root for them win or lose.

How many zero-point, five assist games has Rose had playing significant minutes?

Guarantee all of you that Doc Rivers would be rolling his eyes at the Rondo Excuse Machine on this blog - and that he wants more consistent effort from Rondo every night.

  Doc Rivers would understand that Rose is always the number one shooting option on offense while Rondo's first responsibility is generally to get easy baskets for his teammates. He'd then get to the obvious conclusion that, good game or bad, Rose is much less likely to have a low scoring game than Rondo. We've seen Rondo dominate games where he only takes a few shots, if Rose or Westbrook or a host of others scored that little they'd be invisible on the court. The "Rondo Excuse Machine" is that point guards can do more to help a team win than score, shocking as that might sound to you.

Shocking as this might sound to you I thought an "elite point guard", was generally expected to be able to do both in an efficient manner, no? Maybe we have different definitions of elite point guards but Rondo has never shyed from putting himself at the top of the list. And i feel that if he's gonna be compared with the top tier in both his own eyes and many fans and posters here on CB he needs to be dependable on both sides of the ball on a consistent and nightly basis. Thats what the "elite" guys do in my opinion.

  I think, to a certain extent, you missed my point. When the Bulls are playing and Rose is in the lineup, who's the first option on offense? Who's expected to take the most shots? Simple question, simple answer.

  How about Rondo though? What's his scoring role in the offense? Do you think it's the same every game? The Celts are playing the Hawks tonight. Who do you expect to take more shots, Rondo or KG? Rondo or Ray? Rondo or Bass, or even Rondo or PP? Should Rondo take the most shots or the least? Should it be the same in all of our other games this week?

  Rose has two games all year where he's taken less than 10 shots, Rondo has 16. That's because Rondo's first job is to be a facilitator. But, regardless, if Rondo's scoring role varies from game to game and Rose is always the first option on offense, which would you expect to be a more consistent scorer?