Author Topic: Howard (player & GM)  (Read 7204 times)

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Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 12:49:24 PM »

Offline bostonpatriot

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 12:50:15 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 12:53:39 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

Was it directed at me? I thought it was directed at Ric Bucher for reporting it.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2012, 12:56:40 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

Was it directed at me? I thought it was directed at Ric Bucher for reporting it.
Who knows, bostonpatriot didn't include a subject to his statement. Thus he could be questioning the leaker, Bucher, or the OP its up to guesswork.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2012, 12:59:38 PM »

Offline bostonpatriot

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

I'm very confused. What CB posters? What opinions/agenda?

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2012, 01:08:26 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

I'm very confused. What CB posters? What opinions/agenda?

The point was that thinking Howard is acting improperly by looking after his own interests, and voicing that opinion, is not the same as having an agenda to hurt Howard's popularity or reputation.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2012, 01:09:41 PM »

Offline bostonpatriot

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

Was it directed at me? I thought it was directed at Ric Bucher for reporting it.

Of course it wasn't directed at you. How would a post here affect Howard in any way? Some people are seriously paranoid.

Leaking this makes Howard look bad - or prompts the terrain for that. There are guys supposed to take responsibility for these decisions (and are paid for it), even if in the end a player of Howard stature can force things one way or the other. It's just a very awkward and uncomfortable position for a player to be. With his coaches, teammates, fans. And prepares the terrain to say "we give it all to him, he still wanted to go". Or if he stays, to blame him for bad decisions.

For example, see this reaction:

Quote
The more stories I read about Dwight and the more quotes he gives make me want him less and less.


Perfectly natural.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2012, 01:10:42 PM »

Offline bostonpatriot

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

I'm very confused. What CB posters? What opinions/agenda?

The point was that thinking Howard is acting improperly by looking after his own interests, and voicing that opinion, is not the same as having an agenda to hurt Howard's popularity or reputation.

I don't think you understood my post.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2012, 01:11:10 PM »

Offline OnyxCashew

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didn't the cavs try to do basically the same thing?  worked great for them.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2012, 01:17:06 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

I'm very confused. What CB posters? What opinions/agenda?

The point was that thinking Howard is acting improperly by looking after his own interests, and voicing that opinion, is not the same as having an agenda to hurt Howard's popularity or reputation.

I don't think you understood my post.

Sounds great, I'll have two.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2012, 01:25:07 PM »

Offline BballTim

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The more stories I read about Dwight and the more quotes he gives make me want him less and less.  It's sad that the players have this much control nowadays.  He's backing Orlando into a corner much like Lebron did with Cleveland, so they are forced to make horrible trades in order to try and win it all to keep them happy.

If these guys would let the management slowly build the core of the team (like Durant in OKC), then they would have an exciting team for years to come.  Granted Smith is certainly no Presti and has often times looked more like Isaiah.
The thing is, Orlando and Cleveland both had plenty of time to build a legit team around their star.  In fact both teams made the NBA finals and then decided to tinker with the lineup they had rather than making smart long term basketball decisions.  Neither team made it back to the finals after the tinkering began and both blew lottery picks right the drafts after they landed their star.  Cleveland took Luke Jackson in 2004 and didn't have the lottery pick in 2005 from a 1997 trade.  Orlando took Fran Vasquez (who never played in the NBA) in 2005 and then did ok with JJ Redick in 2006.  Cleveland also had that debacle with Boozer after James' rookie year.  

If you were James and Howard and you witnessed terrible move after terrible move, what would you do?  How many years do you have to give a franchise before you realize they don't know what they are doing and look to move on to brighter pastures?  Now at least Orlando brought in a new basketball man before Howard's contract is up.  Perhaps this new guy will show Howard he knows what he is doing and convince him that things are different now, but he has a lot of work to do.

  You can't let James off the hook for what went on in Cleveland. He didn't want them to build a winner around him, he was always in "win now" mode and kept pressing for immediate help.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2012, 01:28:45 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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What's the purpose of this? To hurt Howard's popularity? His reputation?

This isn't a PR firm. Not everyone who has an opinion also has an agenda.

What? What isn't a PR firm?
His point is that CB posters have opinions, that's not the same thing as having an agenda.

Was it directed at me? I thought it was directed at Ric Bucher for reporting it.

Of course it wasn't directed at you. How would a post here affect Howard in any way? Some people are seriously paranoid.


Paranoid? I didn't think it was towards me, but you must admit you did leave it really open ended, which caused others to think it was regarding the opinions on the thread.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2012, 01:31:45 PM »

Offline 35Lewis

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Why shouldn't Dwight Howard be able to control where he wants to play? From the moment players are drafted, they're 'told' where they are going to play. So when Dwight gets a free-agency opportunity, why shouldn't he be entitled to work something out?

Billy Hunter is that you?  I'm not talking about whether he shouldn't be able to control his destiny.  I don't care if he wants to hit free agency and see what happens because that is his free right to do so.  I don't like when a player knows he is about to lose about $30 million over the life of a contract and tries to force a trade to a team of his choosing before his contract is up.  All evidence points to this as his agents have gotten permission to seek trades to specific teams.  And I'm not talking about the "sources close to Howard" because these are usually just leaks, but the permission to speak to teams has to come from the agent who is working for what Howard wants.



Quote
Dwight Howard has been in Orlando for 7 years. That's 7 years for Otis Smith to find him a second star who he could pair next to Howard.

The best he ever did was a motivated Turkoglu and a still-in his prime-Rashard Lewis.

Just because Otis Smith is 'trying' doesn't mean Howard owes him anything. I don't think there is anything wrong with how Howard is handling this, aside from him not demanding a trade to Boston for expiring contracts.

This is the problem with players.  I don't blame Dwight for the early misteps of Smith (i.e. Fran Vasquez), I'm talking about trades that are made because players demand something be done like Dwight is doing now.  

In this scenario Smith is trying to trade the crap on his roster for something valuable but it is near impossible because they're trading in a Hyundai for a Ferrari.  Suppose Smith pulls off a Monta Ellis heist by giving up a bunch of garbage.  He also takes back the bloated contract of Beidrins and then has to hope that Ellis can play Orlando's style. This could ultimately be a great trade or a very bad trade that makes Smith look even more imcompetent.

I'm not saying Smith is a great GM because I think he is terrible but it's a lot harder to make a three under pressure than it is when you're wide open at the top of the key, and the same goes for being a GM.  Let the man do his job.

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2012, 01:40:29 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Why shouldn't Dwight Howard be able to control where he wants to play? From the moment players are drafted, they're 'told' where they are going to play. So when Dwight gets a free-agency opportunity, why shouldn't he be entitled to work something out?

Billy Hunter is that you?  I'm not talking about whether he shouldn't be able to control his destiny.  I don't care if he wants to hit free agency and see what happens because that is his free right to do so.  I don't like when a player knows he is about to lose about $30 million over the life of a contract and tries to force a trade to a team of his choosing before his contract is up.  All evidence points to this as his agents have gotten permission to seek trades to specific teams.  And I'm not talking about the "sources close to Howard" because these are usually just leaks, but the permission to speak to teams has to come from the agent who is working for what Howard wants.

To me, its just players using the system to get an outcome they prefer. And, since GM's can basically do whatever they please with players once they're under contract, I guess I don't really care and see it as fair-play.

Course if NBA players think they have it bad, they ought to try the NFL.

Quote
Quote
Dwight Howard has been in Orlando for 7 years. That's 7 years for Otis Smith to find him a second star who he could pair next to Howard.

The best he ever did was a motivated Turkoglu and a still-in his prime-Rashard Lewis.

Just because Otis Smith is 'trying' doesn't mean Howard owes him anything. I don't think there is anything wrong with how Howard is handling this, aside from him not demanding a trade to Boston for expiring contracts.

This is the problem with players.  I don't blame Dwight for the early misteps of Smith (i.e. Fran Vasquez), I'm talking about trades that are made because players demand something be done like Dwight is doing now. 

In this scenario Smith is trying to trade the crap on his roster for something valuable but it is near impossible because they're trading in a Hyundai for a Ferrari.  Suppose Smith pulls off a Monta Ellis heist by giving up a bunch of garbage.  He also takes back the bloated contract of Beidrins and then has to hope that Ellis can play Orlando's style. This could ultimately be a great trade or a very bad trade that makes Smith look even more imcompetent.

I'm not saying Smith is a great GM because I think he is terrible but it's a lot harder to make a three under pressure than it is when you're wide open at the top of the key, and the same goes for being a GM.  Let the man do his job.

See, A) Who knows where these leaks of "Howard has demanded better talent", or "Matin/Smith promise Howard an impact player" are coming from. Could be anyone, and there is a very probable, even likely, chance that Dwight Howard has little and less to do with it, so its pretty likely he's not the one applying the outside pressure. B) If you accept A, than its possible the most pressure Dwight Howard is exerting is, 'I need better players around me to consider resigning here'. I don't see anything wrong with that.

And I'd also add that Otis Smith's early mistakes, followed by his middle mistakes, are what led to this situation. You think Dwight Howard demanded they trade for Turkoglu/RIchardson? Also, even if Dwight Howard demanded that Smith sign BBD, whose fault is it if that doesn't work out?

I think its less of a situation of Dwight Howard 'letting the man do his job' than it is a situation of 'the man is clearly incapable of doing his job'.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Howard (player & GM)
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The more stories I read about Dwight and the more quotes he gives make me want him less and less.  It's sad that the players have this much control nowadays.  He's backing Orlando into a corner much like Lebron did with Cleveland, so they are forced to make horrible trades in order to try and win it all to keep them happy.

If these guys would let the management slowly build the core of the team (like Durant in OKC), then they would have an exciting team for years to come.  Granted Smith is certainly no Presti and has often times looked more like Isaiah.
The thing is, Orlando and Cleveland both had plenty of time to build a legit team around their star.  In fact both teams made the NBA finals and then decided to tinker with the lineup they had rather than making smart long term basketball decisions.  Neither team made it back to the finals after the tinkering began and both blew lottery picks right the drafts after they landed their star.  Cleveland took Luke Jackson in 2004 and didn't have the lottery pick in 2005 from a 1997 trade.  Orlando took Fran Vasquez (who never played in the NBA) in 2005 and then did ok with JJ Redick in 2006.  Cleveland also had that debacle with Boozer after James' rookie year.  

If you were James and Howard and you witnessed terrible move after terrible move, what would you do?  How many years do you have to give a franchise before you realize they don't know what they are doing and look to move on to brighter pastures?  Now at least Orlando brought in a new basketball man before Howard's contract is up.  Perhaps this new guy will show Howard he knows what he is doing and convince him that things are different now, but he has a lot of work to do.

  You can't let James off the hook for what went on in Cleveland. He didn't want them to build a winner around him, he was always in "win now" mode and kept pressing for immediate help.

All great players want to win and win now, it isn't James' fault the Cavs totally blew it.  They made awful move after awful move.  Their drafts were terrible.  Free agent signings were even worse and the trades were terrible.  You can be in win now mode and not totally blow it.
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