2012 Celtics: Defeat Bad Teams, Lose to Good Ones

[chambers]

I find it funny that guys are more interested in going into another 20way year drought as opposed to playing in postseason play. Such spoiled fans.

I find it funny that people want to watch a perennial first or second round exit team for 5 years rather than use that 5 years to build a legitimate contender.
If you want a championship, you have to start building somewhere. The earlier you start, the better chance you have of reaching that goal earlier.

[Who]

I find it funny that guys are more interested in going into another 20way year drought as opposed to playing in postseason play. Such spoiled fans.

I think the rationale of those who want to blow it up is exactly to speed up the rebuilding process in order to make the team a contender again as soon as possible.

Personally, I think that Ainge needs to do something. Either strengthen this team this season or blow it up to position the franchise better for the rebuilding process.

Speed it up by 2 months? No thanks.

But seriously are there any other fans in the NBA that would actually root to not make the playoffs? It's pathetic losers mentality and has never really worked out for us except after a 20 year period

You'll find this type of thinking amongst every fan-base across the league that doesn't feel their team is currently in title contention and isn't moving in that direction. 

Ideas such as

(1) Taking a step back in order to take another step forward further down the line
(2) That a lottery pick is more valuable than making the playoffs only to lose in the first round
(3) That trading away veteran players for long term assets (like draft picks) is the best way to speed up the rebuilding process.
(4) That getting bad and collecting top five picks is the best way to rebuild
(5) And the superstar theory -- can't compete for a title until you find one

It's just a different way of thinking. Common across all fan-bases.

[bostonpatriot]

I find it funny that guys are more interested in going into another 20way year drought as opposed to playing in postseason play. Such spoiled fans.

I think the rationale of those who want to blow it up is exactly to speed up the rebuilding process in order to make the team a contender again as soon as possible.

Personally, I think that Ainge needs to do something. Either strengthen this team this season or blow it up to position the franchise better for the rebuilding process.

Speed it up by 2 months? No thanks.

But seriously are there any other fans in the NBA that would actually root to not make the playoffs? It's pathetic losers mentality and has never really worked out for us except after a 20 year period

The 2 months part is irrelevant. That's the time for the rest of the season, not how much you can speed up the rebuilding. It's the assets you can or cannot get that matter.

For example, put the merely theoretical hypothesis that the Wizards offer you 2 unprotected first rounds and salary filler for one of the big 3. Who would say no to this? Sure, it'd make the team even worse this season, but you can't pass on that opportunity to speed up the rebuilding - it wouldn't be speeding up for 2 months but at least 2 years.

Lots of people root for their teams to not make the playoffs. To get a better pick and/or change some management or coaching positions. Sometimes it makes sense. It really depends from case to case.

[CelticG1]

I find it funny that guys are more interested in going into another 20way year drought as opposed to playing in postseason play. Such spoiled fans.

I find it funny that people want to watch a perennial first or second round exit team for 5 years rather than use that 5 years to build a legitimate contender.
If you want a championship, you have to start building somewhere. The earlier you start, the better chance you have of reaching that goal earlier.

You must be God if you know we are going to lose in the 1st or second round

[CelticG1]

I'm pessimistic about this Blow it up thing because we've tried to use everyones formula that wants to blow it up and it took 20 years to finally get someone like KG and Ray here who both happened to be on their decline anyway.

People make it sound easy to rebuild when it's not. I'd rather go for one last run in the playoffs even if we lose early then completely throw the season away.

If you guys have a crystal ball though and know what's going to happen feel free to let me know.

[bostonpatriot]

I'm pessimistic about this Blow it up thing because we've tried to use everyones formula that wants to blow it up and it took 20 years to finally get someone like KG and Ray here who both happened to be on their decline anyway.

People make it sound easy to rebuild when it's not. I'd rather go for one last run in the playoffs even if we lose early then completely throw the season away.

If you guys have a crystal ball though and know what's going to happen feel free to let me know.

Ainge blew up Jim O'Brien's team to get to the point that he could get Garnett and Ray Allen.

It's all about probabilities. "You must be God if you know we are going to lose in the 1st or second round" = "You must be God if you know we aren't getting Anthony Davis in the draft and he wont' become a new Kevin Garnett".

Of course rebuilding is tough. That's why people want to make it as short as possible. You want to delay the entry; others want to minimize the length by entering sooner but finishing it more quickly.

I'd say this team as currently constructed has virtually no chance of making the Finals (extremely low probabilities). So I'd rather blow it up as Ainge did a few years back with the Obbie team. On the other hand, if Ainge improves this team and gives it better chances of making the Finals, I may prefer to delay the rebuilding process.
 

[LooseCannon]

Of course rebuilding is tough. That's why people want to make it as short as possible. You want to delay the entry; others want to minimize the length by entering sooner but finishing it more quickly. 

Some people want to make it last longer while thinking they are speeding it up by doing things like taking on Blatche's contract from Washington in order to get McGee.

[bostonpatriot]

Of course rebuilding is tough. That's why people want to make it as short as possible. You want to delay the entry; others want to minimize the length by entering sooner but finishing it more quickly. 

Some people want to make it last longer while thinking they are speeding it up by doing things like taking on Blatche's contract from Washington in order to get McGee.

I wouldn't do that trade - I suspect McGee's next contract is going to be too much of a risk -, but that's a matter of judgement, not of philosophy.

[Celtics18]

It's actually quite remarkable how consistent they are in this regard.

That fact should cast serious doubt on any hopes that they might turn it on in the post-season.

I wouldn't say that there's anything remarkable about the fact that they've beaten more bad teams than good teams. 

They are 6 and 12 against teams currently over .500 and 15 and 7 against teams below the .500 mark. 

Hopefully, they can pull off a few more wins against quality teams and continue to beat the teams at the bottom. 

[ManUp]

It's funny that fans are so reluctant to blow this team up in fear of returning to mediocrity when it's pretty clear we're already there. 40 games into the season and we're just two games over five hundred. If that's not mediocrity, I don't know what is.

[CelticG1]

It's funny that fans are so reluctant to blow this team up in fear of returning to mediocrity when it's pretty clear we're already there. 40 games into the season and we're just two games over five hundred. If that's not mediocrity, I don't know what is.

Can i hear your blow it up idea?

People say this all the time and obviously never have any reasoning and suggestions or pretty much know anything that they are talking about. Do you know what KG can fetch? Do you know what Ray or Rondo or Pierce can fetch. The answer is you have absolutely no idea. So unless you have the answers to what we can get with "blowing it up" than continuing to talk about it all the time is just a waste. People are talking about getting rid of Ray for a second round pick on this blog. I'm sorry thats just not a good enough asset for me. I'd rather give this team another shot than trading Ray for a 2nd round pick or for some crappy player (i guess some people think an asset) like eric bledsoe

[pearljammer10]

Seems to be a common theme. What also seems to be a common theme is just when we start a little run and get on somewhat of a role the injury bug takes out one to two of our rotation players. I mean seriously, If this team was healthy, would we be teetering on the .500 line??

Rondo/Dooling/Bradley
Allen/Pietrus
Pierce/Green
KG/Bass
JO/Wilcox

If we were healthy, our chemistry would be much better, and would lead to greater things on the court... Its amazing how unlucky we've been with injuries through the big 3 era.

[ManUp]

It's funny that fans are so reluctant to blow this team up in fear of returning to mediocrity when it's pretty clear we're already there. 40 games into the season and we're just two games over five hundred. If that's not mediocrity, I don't know what is.

Can i hear your blow it up idea?

People say this all the time and obviously never have any reasoning and suggestions or pretty much know anything that they are talking about. Do you know what KG can fetch? Do you know what Ray or Rondo or Pierce can fetch. The answer is you have absolutely no idea. So unless you have the answers to what we can get with "blowing it up" than continuing to talk about it all the time is just a waste. People are talking about getting rid of Ray for a second round pick on this blog. I'm sorry thats just not a good enough asset for me. I'd rather give this team another shot than trading Ray for a 2nd round pick or for some crappy player (i guess some people think an asset) like eric bledsoe

Why do i need a "blow it up" idea? I never suggested this team needs to make a trade. I'm just commenting on the fear of "returning to mediocrity" when it's pretty clear that we're already there. I'd rather stand pat then trade anyone for garbage, but I'd also rather stand pat then dump future assets to help this current team. The way I see it this teams a sinking ship that Danny shouldn't be wasting possible future assets(picks/cap) on.

[OmarSekou]

It's funny that fans are so reluctant to blow this team up in fear of returning to mediocrity when it's pretty clear we're already there. 40 games into the season and we're just two games over five hundred. If that's not mediocrity, I don't know what is.

Mediocrity for me is consistently missing the playoffs or getting sent out early. The Bucks have been mediocre. The Knicks have been mediocre. The Sixers have been mediocre.

Last season we lost in the Conference Semifinals (and lost to the team that went to the Finals_. The season before that we lost in the Finals. We dealt with injuries both seasons. We've won our division every season. That's not mediocrity.

This season we've been mediocre so far, but we've shown flashes of what we can be. We'll make the playoffs barring any major injuries and I bet we'll end up higher than the 7th seed. From there, the only team I see that's definitively better than us in our conference is The Heat. Nothing is going to change that.

So instead of playing GM, why not be a fan? We're lucky enough to watch some of the real legends of the sport battle every night. Maybe we won't win a title, but we've got a shot. We've done better than any other team in the Big 3 era other than the Lakers. What's the difference between riding it out and blowing it up? We become worse faster and have a chance at better draft picks sooner? We get some guys who aren't good enough to help us contend and cross our fingers they'll get better because they're younger? No thanks.

The best organization in my opinion this century has been the Spurs. The reason is because they're shrewd and they're patient. They have a culture of consistency and excellence. That's what we have right now. That's what we'd be blowing up.

It's crazy that you can have a thread saying that Lin is better than Melo (because he supposedly has more intangibles than a proven superior talent in the league) and everyone is eager to trade our best players (who have proven intangibles and talent) for question marks. That ain't Celtic pride.

[LooseCannon]

It's funny that fans are so reluctant to blow this team up in fear of returning to mediocrity when it's pretty clear we're already there. 40 games into the season and we're just two games over five hundred. If that's not mediocrity, I don't know what is.

Mediocrity for me is consistently missing the playoffs or getting sent out early. The Bucks have been mediocre. The Knicks have been mediocre. The Sixers have been mediocre.

Last season we lost in the Conference Semifinals (and lost to the team that went to the Finals_. The season before that we lost in the Finals. We dealt with injuries both seasons. We've won our division every season. That's not mediocrity.

This season we've been mediocre so far, but we've shown flashes of what we can be. We'll make the playoffs barring any major injuries and I bet we'll end up higher than the 7th seed. From there, the only team I see that's definitively better than us in our conference is The Heat. Nothing is going to change that.

What bugs me are the people who seem to think that a first round exit for the Celtics this season guarantees that the team will be firmly set on a path for five years of mediocrity.

I look and see a team that would be a legitimate contender, or a bench-strengthening trade away from being one, if Jeff Green had no heart problems and that supposed David West trade had happened.  I can actually see the right off-season moves and some luck in the draft making the Celtics a contender with KG back and no Dwight Howard signing.