Big Three Era a Failure?

[thebat]

Yes we won 2008 and we should be grateful and happy. We could have won 2010 as well. But let us not make excuses. We just cannot say that we got injured etc because The Lakers can also use the same excuse in that 2008 battle (injured and no Bynum).

This is the way I see it:

If we got KG and Ray Allen - two of the biggest stars in this era (or during 2008) and our goal was to get not one but multiple titles, and we got only 1 - then this big three era is a FAILURE!

[Roy H.]

This is the way I see it:

If we got KG and Ray Allen - two of the biggest stars in this era (or during 2008) and our goal was to get not one but multiple titles, and we got only 1 - then this big three era is a FAILURE!

Too bad we didn't stick with the Big Al / Gerald Green / Sebastian Telfair era, right?. 

I don't understand how the "big three" era is anything other than an unmitigated success.  That's like saying the Big Three era of the 80s was a failure, because they should have won more titles than they did.

[KGs Knee]

Failure?  The only failure was the article.

Sure, this "New Big 3" era could have been better, but a title is not a failure.  (Slaps forehead)

The last four years the C's have been consistently in the hunt for a title, and one of the most talked about teams.  After the previous 20 years of being a laughing stock, winning a title and getting back on the map can be considered nothing short of a success.

[LooseCannon]

Hopefully, the Miami Heat will remain Lebron's no-ring circus and we'll realize what it truly means to be a failure.

[greenlion]

failure?seriously? putting up the team posthaste and clinching the crown on its first year is far from being a failure..being a contender for every year they are together is hard not to notice, unless you are detached or have short term memory loss..

[LarBrd33]

Depends on how you look at it.

PRE-2007 lotto, the expectation was Greg Oden and a dynasty.  This is a massive disappointment when held to those expectations.

POST-2007 lotto, the expectation was Yi Jianlian with the #5 pick... just total and utter hopeless despair.  I almost quit being a basketball fan I was so completely depressed over it.  

POST-2007 draft, the belief was that our GM was out of his freakin mind.  Trading the #5 pick for Ray Allen in order to stay relevant for a couple years... a stop-the-bleeding trade to allow us to tread water and be a playoff also-ran.  I was disgusted.  Terrible, terrible, trade.  I was angry.

Then the other shoe dropped and KG came to town.  Expectation for many (including Bill Russell), was 2-3 championships.  I still felt winning 1 was unlikely.  Winning the 2008 title was so completely improbable and amazing to me that I don't even know how to put it into words.  I've lived most of my life away from Boston as a hardcore Celtic fan.  Being that I was born in 82, all I was use to was failure, failure and failure. Nobody in this state is a fan of the Celtics.  I felt like a leper for even liking them.  Winning the 2008 title was the greatest sports moment of my life.  Massive unexpected and unbelievable success that I'll always remember.

With that said... I'll repeat what I've said in a few threads already.  Revisionist history will see this Celtic team as a short-lived contender that only lasted for about 3.5 years (from the moment KG came to the moment Perk was traded), made 2 final appearances and won 1 title.  That puts this team below the 00's Pistons (who were relevant for 9 years, made the finals twice, won a title and participated in the ECF 6 times).  History will also mostly look at us as a footnote in the larger Kobe Bryant story.  We're the "hump" he had to get over on his own.  Winning 3 titles with Shaq, making the finals on his "own" (poor Pau), only to get stopped by the villainous Frankenstein Celtics in 08.  He comes back and wins a title in 09... and then in 2010 vanquishes the Celtics to win his 5th title and repeat as undisputed Champion.  Sad, but true.  We're a blip in the era dominated by Duncan/Shaq/Kobe... and right before the LeBron/Durant/etc era.  I can see how someone could consider THAT to be a failure.

It's all about context, I guess.

[GreenFaith1819]

Their legacy will be ONE HIT wonder.

I don't get it... are you trolling?

Well, I don't know if the post was meant to troll but, if so - I can do that a bit better, here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEo7-4bgPxs

DISCLAIMER: The vid shows the multi-talented Laker Big in some of his absolute BEST MOMENTS..including his improbable posterizing of young KG.

Just a warning.

But, IMO - the GREATEST part of the clip, if you can stomach the first 3:30 secs or so, is the ending.

"I'm on TOP O' THE WORLD"...lol

 

[Eja117]

When I accidentally walked into Ray Allen's wedding and saw an NBA championship trophy on the table it didn't seem like a failure. A year or so later when my sister bumped into him randomly trying to look unrecognizable he STILL posed for a cell photo with her. Didn't seem like a failure then either.
This team may be the junior varsity of Celts championship teams, but that's still really good. That's like being Robin at the Justice League. Robin can kick your wazoo. Careful what you say about Robin. The man raised himself in the circus. Batman doesn't just add anyone to the team.

[anthony83]

This is a stupid article, failure?
A title and have been in the top of the league 3/4 years, do not understand.
Please be more serious.
And we will see this year if no trade this team can still make war.

[GreenFaith1819]

With that said... I'll repeat what I've said in a few threads already.  Revisionist history will see this Celtic team as a short-lived contender that only lasted for about 3.5 years (from the moment KG came to the moment Perk was traded), made 2 final appearances and won 1 title.  That puts this team below the 00's Pistons (who were relevant for 9 years, made the finals twice, won a title and participated in the ECF 6 times).  History will also mostly look at us as a footnote in the larger Kobe Bryant story.  We're the "hump" he had to get over on his own.  Winning 3 titles with Shaq, making the finals on his "own" (poor Pau), only to get stopped by the villainous Frankenstein Celtics in 08.  He comes back and wins a title in 09... and then in 2010 vanquishes the Celtics to win his 5th title and repeat as undisputed Champion.  Sad, but true.  We're a blip in the era dominated by Duncan/Shaq/Kobe... and right before the LeBron/Durant/etc era.  I can see how someone could consider THAT to be a failure.

It's all about context, I guess.

LarBrd33 - I can see where you're getting at, but even with what you posted, I'm wondering how THESE guys would classify the KG-Ray Ray-Pierce era:

Karl Malone. John Stockton. Reggie Miller. Patrick Ewing. Charles Barkley. Chris Webber. Shawn Kemp.

A few others I may have missed, but all together - you could put together an All-Time Greats squad with that lineup. They were simply some of the greatest to ever play the game, right there.

The amazing thing with that list is that Michael and Scottie stopped most of them.

Things just weren't meant to be.

But I'm sure they'd look at our current Big Three and say:

"They did it."

They didn't announce their coming together on ESPN...with a "Decision"...parading around and saying "We'll win EIGHT rings", etc...lol...they didn't bail out on their prior teams...indeed they gave their BEST YEARS to SEA and Minny.

Then they came to BOS.

And along the way, they added to the Celtics' Lore. They may not have done it Larry/Chief/McHale style - but they still did it.

And the amazing thing is that perhaps we have one more run left.

[slamtheking]

I don't know if it's a failure but it's definitely a disappointment.

They should definitely have more than just 1 ring and a loss in the finals. This team was DOMINANT in 2007-08 and has drastically underperformed every season since then.

Don't get me wrong, they've given us great moments... but i expected more from this group.

This.

Failure is probably too strong a term but I think disappointment is a legitimate evaluation.  I had expectations of a couple of titles.  

I won't complain about KG's injury because that 09 team played to win every night and really brought it in the playoffs they were just too gassed without KG and Powe up front. If anything, I'd fault Danny for not getting another decent big man to take the load off Perk and BBD that year.

I will complain about the 10 team though.  no effort after Christmas.  Sheed was sleepwalking through the season.  I'll go along with Perk's missing game 7 as probably the biggest reason we don't win that year but I really feel if the played for home court advantage during the season, playing that last game at home would have made difference.  Also, the 2 games after each traveling day the C's mailed in those games (3 and 6).  No excuse, particularly game 6 when they had a chance to win the series and they played one of their worst games of the season.  They had a healthy Perk that game--should have played that one like it mattered and they could have won it then.

The 11 team, we were outclassed by Miami.  Complain about Rondo's injury if need be but Miami was beating us in the fourth quarters (because we know this team can't hold leads in the fourth quarter--> a very legitimate reason to consider them at least disappointing if not a failure) like many other teams.  Even if Rondo doesn't go down that game, we may have won that one if we were lucky but I don't see us winning another one that series.  I'd fault Danny for not keeping TA that year and/or finding a good swingman for the bench.

By the way, those posting we had 2 trips to the finals and 2 to the ECF are incorrect.  we have 2 trips to the finals and 2 trips to the second round (Orl beat us after the Bulls series in 09 and Miami beat us after the Knicks series)

[LarBrd33]

With that said... I'll repeat what I've said in a few threads already.  Revisionist history will see this Celtic team as a short-lived contender that only lasted for about 3.5 years (from the moment KG came to the moment Perk was traded), made 2 final appearances and won 1 title.  That puts this team below the 00's Pistons (who were relevant for 9 years, made the finals twice, won a title and participated in the ECF 6 times).  History will also mostly look at us as a footnote in the larger Kobe Bryant story.  We're the "hump" he had to get over on his own.  Winning 3 titles with Shaq, making the finals on his "own" (poor Pau), only to get stopped by the villainous Frankenstein Celtics in 08.  He comes back and wins a title in 09... and then in 2010 vanquishes the Celtics to win his 5th title and repeat as undisputed Champion.  Sad, but true.  We're a blip in the era dominated by Duncan/Shaq/Kobe... and right before the LeBron/Durant/etc era.  I can see how someone could consider THAT to be a failure.

It's all about context, I guess.

LarBrd33 - I can see where you're getting at, but even with what you posted, I'm wondering how THESE guys would classify the KG-Ray Ray-Pierce era:

Karl Malone. John Stockton. Reggie Miller. Patrick Ewing. Charles Barkley. Chris Webber. Shawn Kemp.

Hardcore BBall fans will appreciate their careers.  Still, they are all fodder in MJ documentaries.  Basketball retrospectives see them as stepping stones for the BUlls.  Nice little careers during Jordan's reign as king.  Even what the Rockets accomplished is largely overlooked as being a blip in the era of Jordan.

I think you see what I'm getting out.  Every time I make the statement, I get backlash from Celtic fans.  I love what we accomplished in 08.  I'm sure the Pistons love what they accomplished too.  Still, nobody will say the Pistons owned that era.  It was all Kobe and Shaq.

Kobe's got 5 titles and beat anyone that mattered.  This generation belongs to him. 

The next generation could be bron... could be durant... could be blake/cp3... who knows.  But the one we're transitioning from belonged to Bryant.  Anything else that happened in Kobe's world is overshadowed by it.  The further away we get from this generation, the more irrelevant our accomplishments in a microdynasty 3.5 year period become.  Nobody cares that the 76ers won a title in the Bird/Magic era.

[GreenFaith1819]

But LarBrd33 - I guessing that that one title in 83' means A LOT to Moses/Dr. J/Bobby Jones/Maurice Cheeks.

I am sure that true basketball historians, free from bias, wouldn't discredit ANY championships.

Windows to win these things are cherished, and often too small. They are dependent on perfect storms (Shaq leaving LA prematurely, and thus enabling Wade to win his only one so far).

The amazing thing with Shaq leaving LA when he did, was that it prevented Kobe from bragging about banner 17 for LA. I'm almost certain that if he would've stayed, they would've won another.

And DWade would STILL be without one.

Injuries play a role, too.

I think that only in extreme fanbase worship do followers of the game classify eras as belonging to a certain player. I mean, for all that - Kobe Bean Bryant should buy Pau Gasol and Metta World a BIG HOUSE, with the way they bailed him out in 2009-10 game 7.

Look at Tim Duncan...I recall that some questioned the Spurs' accomplishments. While he won four rings, they were not consecutive...some were attributed to David Robinson.

All I know is that I'm happy for what Danny was able to pull off in 07-08. What happened that season allows the banner count to be:

17 - Boston Celtics.

16 - Los Angeles Lakers.

And thanks to OKC, MEM, and perhaps DAL - it will remain that way.

[thebat]

It is a failure.
Before we got KG and Ray - our championships were 16. Lakers 14.
2012 and our banners are now 17. Lakers 16.

I am not blaming KG and Ray here. I guess more on Ainge. 2008 was our best team roster. It got us a championship. He should have had hold on to that solid roster or got us better and better, but the way things went, we got weaker and weaker together with the age of the veterans.

The Celtics, and the whole organization is failing and should open their eyes and act and do something quick. Because sooner or later, the Lakers will overtake us. And I would die to see that happen!

[Roy H.]

It is a failure.
Before we got KG and Ray - our championships were 16. Lakers 14.
2012 and our banners are now 17. Lakers 16.

I am not blaming KG and Ray here. I guess more on Ainge. 2008 was our best team roster. It got us a championship. He should have had hold on to that solid roster or got us better and better, but the way things went, we got weaker and weaker together with the age of the veterans.

The Celtics, and the whole organization is failing and should open their eyes and act and do something quick. Because sooner or later, the Lakers will overtake us. And I would die to see that happen!

Was the Bird-McHale-Parish era a failure?

Also, but for Ainge, the championship count would currently be 17 Lakers - 16 Celtics.