Heat

[djbilly33]

I know this has nothing to do with the Celtics,but I hate the Heat.  I still do not think it's fair that the talents of Bosh, and Lebron could be allowed to join forces with Wade.  And now there are talks of other good players jumping on their bandwagon for a ring.  You can say what you want about the Celtics, but Ray and KG were traded to the Celtics, they didnt choose to come here, ontop of them not being in their prime.  Heat will probably win the title for the next 5 years.  Thoughts?

[wdleehi]

I have no issue with guys following the rules of the system to go where they want to.  (I don't like tamper if it happened.  I don't like the hoopla around it that they decided to create)


I have bigger issues when players force teams hands to trade them to specific teams, thus lowering the return teams can get. 

[CelticG1]

Aren't wade and lebron not on max contracts? Obviously that's technically fine but a little bush league IMO. In an extreme case its like if Kevin Durant came from wealthy billion dollar background and played for the minimum for a team. His talent level is a max contract but he'd get paid like a bottom league player. It just kind of circumvents the system a little as far as acquiring talent on a team

[wdleehi]

Aren't wade and lebron not on max contracts? Obviously that's technically fine but a little bush league IMO. In an extreme case its like if Kevin Durant came from wealthy billion dollar background and played for the minimum for a team. His talent level is a max contract but he'd get paid like a bottom league player. It just kind of circumvents the system a little as far as acquiring talent on a team

Why?  We love when the players on out own team take "home town discounts"


If a player is willing to sacrifice a little money for a better chance of winning, I have no issue with them.

[Moranis]

Aren't wade and lebron not on max contracts? Obviously that's technically fine but a little bush league IMO. In an extreme case its like if Kevin Durant came from wealthy billion dollar background and played for the minimum for a team. His talent level is a max contract but he'd get paid like a bottom league player. It just kind of circumvents the system a little as far as acquiring talent on a team

Why?  We love when the players on out own team take "home town discounts"


If a player is willing to sacrifice a little money for a better chance of winning, I have no issue with them.

I actually have more respect for the three of them because they all took less money (a lot less money actually).  To me that shows it really was in a very large part about winning, which should actually be respected.  Sure they went it about it all wrong and made it a circus, but at the end of the day, all three decided that they wanted to play together and took a lot less money to do it so that the Heat could re-sign Haslem, bring in Miller, etc.

[RyNye]

I really don't understand all the hate for the Heat.

Yes, the Decision was really obnoxious and stupid. But they got their comeuppance for that with last year's humiliating Finals defeat, and this year they have all made comments to the press that they regret the way they went about doing it. That's the end of that story, there's no reason to continue haranguing them for something they've already paid and then apologized for.

Besides that, what's the problem with them? That they are good? So what? I personally LIKE how many dominant teams are in the NBA these days. It's a complete crapshoot who is going to win the title. It wasn't that long ago that the NBA was pretty weak in terms of talent ... there were maybe two real contenders, then a handful of good teams. These days, Thunder, Bulls, and Heat are all incredibly dominant, but all with some glaring weaknesses that prevent them from getting a real edge on the others, and then there's a large core of really good teams (Indiana, Philadelphia, Boston, New York, Denver, San Antonio, Dallas, Clippers, unfortunately the Lakers though I hate to admit it because I hate them).

Also, it's ridiculous to claim the Heat are going to win the next 5 titles. Honestly, it isn't even a lock that they will win this year. Sure, they are killing it in the regular season, but so are several other teams.

What's wrong with having a good but also in some ways flawed team around? I'd rather have a slugfest in the east than no competition whatsoever.

[CelticG1]

Aren't wade and lebron not on max contracts? Obviously that's technically fine but a little bush league IMO. In an extreme case its like if Kevin Durant came from wealthy billion dollar background and played for the minimum for a team. His talent level is a max contract but he'd get paid like a bottom league player. It just kind of circumvents the system a little as far as acquiring talent on a team

Why?  We love when the players on out own team take "home town discounts"


If a player is willing to sacrifice a little money for a better chance of winning, I have no issue with them.

I actually have more respect for the three of them because they all took less money (a lot less money actually).  To me that shows it really was in a very large part about winning, which should actually be respected.  Sure they went it about it all wrong and made it a circus, but at the end of the day, all three decided that they wanted to play together and took a lot less money to do it so that the Heat could re-sign Haslem, bring in Miller, etc.

What they did isn't that extreme. Im just saying that if Howard, chris Paul, kobe and Durant wanted to all play together for small salaries I would discount their success more. That's great that they took less money and wanted to win and they wouldn't be doing anything wrong but in my eyes it kind of circumvents the premise behind the salary cap and the idea of parity in the league.

If when KG came to the Celts and he took a vet min contract and we could sign a max guy on top of that of course id be pumped. But if I were the rest of the league id be thinking "they aren't good enough to play under the normal salary cap so they weaseled their way around it"


If lebron signed for the vet min and they could sign d howard you wouldn't think that is a little unfair or at least a little lame?  I guarantee the NBA would change something in the system soon after to not allow that to happen

[huzy]

I commend LBJ, Wade and Bosh for their decision to all sign with the Heat in the interest of winning. The great contradiction of the measure of NBA success is that we want our stars to win titles for validation, then we say that achievment is diminished if they don't do it alone.

The 1986 Celtics had 5 Hall of Famers. Are Bird, McHale, DJ, Walton or Parish's legacies tainted because that team was so talented?

The 1996 Bulls had three Hall of Famers in their prime.

The 2011-2012 Heat presumably have two Hall of Famers and maybe Bosh.

The Heat share the basketball and play a cohesive and fluid game. I prefer this much more to watching Kobe put up 30 shots in a game, while everyone says that he's "the man" in LA.

Players are told from grade school on to sacrifice their own personal interest for the success of the team. LBJ and Bosh decided that they would prefer to be contributing members of an extremely talented team rather than "the man" in Cleveland and Toronto.

Hate them because they made life more difficult for every other NBA franchise, not because they decided to play together.
 

[CelticG1]

Well those Celtics and bulls teams acquired there talent differently. And if pippin and jordan decided to take significantly less money and were able to sign Shaq to their team to I think it would have been a joke. I wouldn't be impressed by them sacrificing money. Id say they took a short cut.

Im just trying to make a point, that there is somewhat of an argument to be made there. LBJ and Wade didn't do this to the extreme, but I think with the amount of money these guys make outside of bball and with the future them making even more, I could see this potentially turning into a problem where the salary cap doesn't mean as much and possibly turning into baseball with no salary cap which I hate

[huzy]

I would much prefer to see a trend of star players sacrificing money as opposed to seeing salaries continuously raising to prohibitive levels.

Well those Celtics and bulls teams acquired there talent differently. And if pippin and jordan decided to take significantly less money and were able to sign Shaq to their team to I think it would have been a joke. I wouldn't be impressed by them sacrificing money. Id say they took a short cut.

Im just trying to make a point, that there is somewhat of an argument to be made there. LBJ and Wade didn't do this to the extreme, but I think with the amount of money these guys make outside of bball and with the future them making even more, I could see this potentially turning into a problem where the salary cap doesn't mean as much and possibly turning into baseball with no salary cap which I hate

To your point about Pippen, he actually did receive less money than three other players on that Bulls team:

Rk Player Salary
1 Michael Jordan $3,850,000
2 Toni Kukoc $3,560,000
3 Ron Harper $3,120,000
4 Scottie Pippen $2,925,000
5 Dennis Rodman $2,500,000
6 Luc Longley $2,300,000
7 Bill Wennington $1,000,000
8 Randy Brown $900,000
9 Dickey Simpkins $845,000
10 Steve Kerr $800,000
11 Jason Caffey $627,000
12 Jud Buechler $300,000
13 Jack Haley $225,000
14 James Edwards $225,000
Source: BasketballReference.com

Is it a joke that he made less than Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc? And are you not impressed by his contribution to that team because he made less?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I don't care that they all got together.

I thought the way LeBron handled leaving Cleveland was completely unacceptable and I also didn't like all the Hub Bub of a circus coming out party they did in Miami.

Of the three, I find Bosh the most likeable. I can't stand the Heat because of Wade and LeBron's on court personalities. I can't stand all the showboating / posturing when a dunk is done and the feigned indignance every time any foul is called on either of them.

I also don't think this heat team will ever reach the potential that everyone thinks it will.

I think there is going to be 1-2 better "teams" every year that will knock them off.

This year I think it will be OKC, Denver or Memphis once when Zach Randolph comes back.

I'm not sure anyone in the east, unfortunately, can knock them off this year. Maybe the Knicks if they get rolling. I'd like to think Chicago could, but I don't think the matchup are good against Miami.   

[CelticG1]

I would much prefer to see a trend of star players sacrificing money as opposed to seeing salaries continuously raising to prohibitive levels.

Well those Celtics and bulls teams acquired there talent differently. And if pippin and jordan decided to take significantly less money and were able to sign Shaq to their team to I think it would have been a joke. I wouldn't be impressed by them sacrificing money. Id say they took a short cut.

Im just trying to make a point, that there is somewhat of an argument to be made there. LBJ and Wade didn't do this to the extreme, but I think with the amount of money these guys make outside of bball and with the future them making even more, I could see this potentially turning into a problem where the salary cap doesn't mean as much and possibly turning into baseball with no salary cap which I hate

To your point about Pippen, he actually did receive less money than three other players on that Bulls team:

Rk Player Salary
1 Michael Jordan $3,850,000
2 Toni Kukoc $3,560,000
3 Ron Harper $3,120,000
4 Scottie Pippen $2,925,000
5 Dennis Rodman $2,500,000
6 Luc Longley $2,300,000
7 Bill Wennington $1,000,000
8 Randy Brown $900,000
9 Dickey Simpkins $845,000
10 Steve Kerr $800,000
11 Jason Caffey $627,000
12 Jud Buechler $300,000
13 Jack Haley $225,000
14 James Edwards $225,000
Source: BasketballReference.com

Is it a joke that he made less than Ron Harper and Toni Kukoc? And are you not impressed by his contribution to that team because he made less?

 

Was he a max contract guy? 1 year of the salary doesn't really show much. But doesn't diminish it.

Isn't what they are doing just another way of picking and choosing who they want to play with? It makes it less about building a team from the gm standpoint and more about the players controlling what happens. Isn't the salary caps idea to control parity in the league and isn't this just exploiting it for how it was originally meant for?

[slamtheking]

I think what bothers me about the Heat is
A) the circus of the 'decision' and how they annointed themselves immediate champions
B) the air of collusion in coming to together to form a super team.  Reminds me too much of grade school when a few really athletic kids would join up to play against the rest of the schoolyard.  It wasn't fair to the other kids that they stacked the deck with talent.  To me, what they did is very similar.

As for the other examples of teams that had lots of stars on the same team-->every one of them is completely different from the Heat.  Those teams were built by trades and drafts, not by all-stars deciding to play together to stack the deck in their favor.

It's no guarantee the Heat win a title while they're together although I'd be very surprised if they ended up with less than 3.  To me, they'd be lesser titles.