Celtics pursuing Josh Smith? (rumor)

[PosImpos]

PosImpos,

I was not saying that we should trade PP for Smith straight up.  I think Atl. is wanting Ray and maybe Bass.  I haven't heard anything about Pierce going to Atl.  Of course, I may have missed it.

I agree that Bosh probably didn't deserve it either, but I could make the argument for the approx. 7 others with higher ER's in the East the last two years.

Peace,

Smitty77

Allen and Bass is not going to net us Smith.  Pierce or KG would need to be going there.  Pierce makes the most sense.

We're not going to get an All-Star caliber big man who hasn't yet entered his prime for a couple of elite role players on expiring contracts.

  You could throw in a pick as well. If Smith's unhappy in Atl, how much are they going to get in return?

I think you try to sell them on a package of Allen, KG, and a 1st round pick.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6msmwkw

If that doesn't work, you offer Pierce, Allen, and Bass and you see if you can get them to throw in a pick.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7jyog5q


I view the Hawks' situation with Smith similarly to the Celtics' situation with Rondo.  They value him highly, but are willing to move him for a number of reasons.  They won't trade him, though, unless somebody offers them a high quality player that fits their objectives (winning now in the Hawks' case, rebuilding in the Celtics' case).

[cMac44111]

I try to avoid these trade idea posts but I like really like Smooth's skillset and I think he'd excel on the celtics.

Would you guys like a trade like this: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7ctax35

Bos Out: Ray, Bass, JO
In: Smith, TMac (or Stackhouse), Ridnour

Atl Out: Smith, McGrady/ Stackhouse, Pachulia
In: Bass, Beasley, JO

T-Wolves Out: Ridnour, Beasley
In: Pachulia, Allen, and most likely a pick, don't know which one

[pearljammer10]

hickson  >. josh smith...

really?
i don't see it

False by a mile.

[PosImpos]

hickson  >. josh smith...

really?
i don't see it

False by a mile.

Yeah, not even close.

[Moranis]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

so has Al Jefferson.  Andrew Bynum just made his first all star game this season (year 7).  Steve Nash didn't make an all star game until he was 27 in his 6th year (he won two MVP's after that).

Seems a bit strange to judge talent solely on all star appearances since it is by and large a popularity contest.  I mean Yao Ming was an all star in 2010-2011, a season he played in the whopping total of 5 games. 

According to Hollinger the Celtcis improve in the trade I proposed.

[BballTim]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

so has Al Jefferson.  Andrew Bynum just made his first all star game this season (year 7).  Steve Nash didn't make an all star game until he was 27 in his 6th year (he won two MVP's after that).

Seems a bit strange to judge talent solely on all star appearances since it is by and large a popularity contest.  I mean Yao Ming was an all star in 2010-2011, a season he played in the whopping total of 5 games. 

According to Hollinger the Celtcis improve in the trade I proposed.

  You're the one who called Smith an all-star talent, I don't know why you'd get upset when people comment on that. I agree that all-star games are popularity contests by and large, but people also need to keep their valuations in line. Smith's got age on his side but you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player.

[cman88]

Igoudala hasnt really been an allstar, and was just selected this year at age 28...sometimes it just takes time for these guys to be all-star calibar players

IMO J.smith shouldve been an allstar this year.

he is only 26years old and is exactly the type of player we need to put next to Rondo, and for this team's system.

he is a big who can finish in the paint, can run the floor and plays solid defense...I think he would really flourish here with Rondo feeding him the ball

[Smitty77]

BballTim,

I don't know if "you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player."

Facts defy that.  Josh's Efficiency Rating is over 1 point higher than our highest player, KG.  And Josh's team has a higher winning percentage as well.

Smitty77

[Evantime34]

BballTim,

I don't know if "you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player."

Facts defy that.  Josh's Efficiency Rating is over 1 point higher than our highest player, KG.  And Josh's team has a higher winning percentage as well.

Smitty77

With how he is playing now I'm not sure how we can get him

[Moranis]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

so has Al Jefferson.  Andrew Bynum just made his first all star game this season (year 7).  Steve Nash didn't make an all star game until he was 27 in his 6th year (he won two MVP's after that).

Seems a bit strange to judge talent solely on all star appearances since it is by and large a popularity contest.  I mean Yao Ming was an all star in 2010-2011, a season he played in the whopping total of 5 games. 

According to Hollinger the Celtcis improve in the trade I proposed.

  You're the one who called Smith an all-star talent, I don't know why you'd get upset when people comment on that. I agree that all-star games are popularity contests by and large, but people also need to keep their valuations in line. Smith's got age on his side but you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player.

He is an all star talent.

[BballTim]

BballTim,

I don't know if "you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player."

Facts defy that.  Josh's Efficiency Rating is over 1 point higher than our highest player, KG.  And Josh's team has a higher winning percentage as well.

Smitty77

  I'd probably start with the (shocking) claim that Efficiency Rating isn't the only way to judge which player is better. But if you're only method of comparing is numbers, he has the lowest WS/48 out of PP/RR/KG/Smith and he has the lowest production differential compared to his opponents from 82games. He has a lower PER than KG and very slightly higher than PP (who started the year playing poorly due to injury) and Rondo (who has that whole "makes those around him better" thing going that Smith doesn't). Smith has (by a fair amount) the lowest TS% and eFG% of the four as well.

[BballTim]

Boston - Wes Johnson, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams
Atlanta - Ray Allen, Michael Beasley, Darko Milicic
Minnesota - Paul Pierce


Minnesota gets that veteran playoff tested wing they need for a playoff run and gives up a guy that is probably gone (beasley), a young guy with some potential (johnson), and a poor contract they don't want anymore (darko). 

Atlanta adds a veteran shooter, depth at center, and a young scorer they can take a look at it.

Boston gets younger, more athletic, and more talented.

Minnesota get paul pierce for beasley and a pile of rubbish and we get josh smith and not much else for our two starting wings...how is this trade helping us at all?

We get younger, faster, more athletic, and more talented.  The Celtics aren't a contender, so they need to get younger and start over.  Wes Johnson is the starting SG in Minnesota and Marvin Williams is a more than capable 3/4 6th man type player (who is starting in ATL).  Plus you get Josh Smith a legit all star talent for two 35 year old wings, one of which isn't going to be around next year anyway (unless the Celtics totally fail in free agency).  The Celtics need to bring in as much young talent as they can, and this trade does that.  Smith is 26, Williams is 25, Johnson is 24 (and was a top five pick 2 years ago).

  The Celts get younger and more athletic, not more talented. I like Smith, but it's worth pointing out that he's been in the league for 8 years and never been an all-star.

so has Al Jefferson.  Andrew Bynum just made his first all star game this season (year 7).  Steve Nash didn't make an all star game until he was 27 in his 6th year (he won two MVP's after that).

Seems a bit strange to judge talent solely on all star appearances since it is by and large a popularity contest.  I mean Yao Ming was an all star in 2010-2011, a season he played in the whopping total of 5 games. 

According to Hollinger the Celtcis improve in the trade I proposed.

  You're the one who called Smith an all-star talent, I don't know why you'd get upset when people comment on that. I agree that all-star games are popularity contests by and large, but people also need to keep their valuations in line. Smith's got age on his side but you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player.

He is an all star talent.

  I'm not sure exactly what that means for someone that's halfway through their career and never been an all-star. Again, I like him and I'd like to see him on the Celts but he's probably somewhere around the 8th-12th best power forward in the game. Maybe a little higher, not a lot.

[Evantime34]

BballTim,

I don't know if "you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player."

Facts defy that.  Josh's Efficiency Rating is over 1 point higher than our highest player, KG.  And Josh's team has a higher winning percentage as well.

Smitty77

  I'd probably start with the (shocking) claim that Efficiency Rating isn't the only way to judge which player is better. But if you're only method of comparing is numbers, he has the lowest WS/48 out of PP/RR/KG/Smith and he has the lowest production differential compared to his opponents from 82games. He has a lower PER than KG and very slightly higher than PP (who started the year playing poorly due to injury) and Rondo (who has that whole "makes those around him better" thing going that Smith doesn't). Smith has (by a fair amount) the lowest TS% and eFG% of the four as well.

I think the important aspect of a trade for smith is this; Smith would be our second best player next year. I'd probably only do a deal involving either Pierce or Ray for him. If we send them Ray and take on a bad contract of theirs like Marvin, we'd still have to throw in a first or two

[Celtics4ever]

14.7  PPG 7.9 RPG  3 APG and 2.2 BPG on .46%FG we could do much worse.  Those are his career stats.

I always hate him when he plays against us because his activity level and play hurts us. 

[BballTim]

BballTim,

I don't know if "you could easily argue that if you put him on the Celts today he'd be their fourth best player."

Facts defy that.  Josh's Efficiency Rating is over 1 point higher than our highest player, KG.  And Josh's team has a higher winning percentage as well.

Smitty77

  I'd probably start with the (shocking) claim that Efficiency Rating isn't the only way to judge which player is better. But if you're only method of comparing is numbers, he has the lowest WS/48 out of PP/RR/KG/Smith and he has the lowest production differential compared to his opponents from 82games. He has a lower PER than KG and very slightly higher than PP (who started the year playing poorly due to injury) and Rondo (who has that whole "makes those around him better" thing going that Smith doesn't). Smith has (by a fair amount) the lowest TS% and eFG% of the four as well.

I think the important aspect of a trade for smith is this; Smith would be our second best player next year. I'd probably only do a deal involving either Pierce or Ray for him. If we send them Ray and take on a bad contract of theirs like Marvin, we'd still have to throw in a first or two

  It's also important that we don't act like we're trading for a perennial mvp candidate. He'd be great to have, but at a reasonable price.