Jazz Fan Here

[LarBrd33]

Couple questions for Hauntlers since he's the default Utah Jazz ambassador.  

I originally thought you guys were a potential playoff team and considered you a viable candidate to trade for Ray Allen.  You have a trade exception from trading Okur that would allow you to take on Ray's salary without giving us salary back... so then it just became about what kind of value we could get in return from you guys to make it worth our time.  One of your 1st rounders?  One of your young prospects like Hayward?  Kinda a moot point now, because you guys have currently fallen out of the playoff race.  So just to confirm... you guys would have no use for Ray Allen in a last-ditch playoff push, right?

Second question.  Since your team is falling out of the playoffs and clearly building around youth, doesn't that make both Al Jefferson AND Paul Millisap entirely expendable despite the fact they are both only 27 years old?  Clearly your future is undeniably big men Favors and Kanter.  Long-term, those guys are starting... not Al Jefferson and Millsap.  SO, wouldn't it benefit you guys to just start force-feeding minutes to them immediately and tank the season for another top pick to fit around them?  For that reason, I can see exactly why you'd jump at trading Al Jefferson for Rondo.  Jefferson is expendable.  Why even pay him 14 million this year and 15 million next year when you would rather just give those minutes to Kanter?  Why pay Millsap 8 mil this year and 8.6 million next year when you could just be giving those minutes to Favors?  The salary cap is roughly 58 million.  If you guys stand pat you have 53 million in committed salary next season... 5 mil in space.  Isn't there anyone in your fan base that would rather just get rid of Jefferson and Millsap immediately in salary dumps, head into next season with only 28.5 mil in committed salary (40 million in space to use as creatively as you choose).   You guys currently are looking at the 8th (Golden State) and 10th (your own) picks.  However, you are at risk of losing that Golden State pick if they fall any lower, because it's top 7 protected.  Meanwhile, if you guys MAKE the playoffs, you lose your draft pick to the Timberwolves... it's lotto protected this year and top-12 protected next year so currently you're projected to keep it.  Why risk falling out of the top 10 by having Jefferson and Millsap (who have no place in your future) help you win?  What purpose does winning even serve you right now?  Your "best case" scenario is making the playoffs with an 8th seed, losing your draft pick to the Timberwolves and getting destroyed in the first round.  Why do that?  Your time isn't 2012... it's years from now when your youth finally develops.  I say just tank it further... try to get into the top 5.  It's a deep draft.  Why not?  What I'm trying to say is... explain to me, as a Jazz fan, why you wouldn't trade Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson straight-up RIGHT NOW for Kevin Garnett's 21 million dollar expiring contract?  Let's assume he retires or you guys buy him out... it's purely a salary dump from your standpoint.  But why not?

What you described is what the fans want. For whatever reason, our coach isn't playing our young talent...not sure why. I don't really mind Jefferson or Millsap, both are good players in their own right, but our future isn't them so it just makes sense to trade them and get something out of them.  And no, we wouldn't be interested in Ray Allen as we're not going to make the playoffs. We suck.

So in case people skipped my post based on length... what we're saying here is that the Jazz would probably consider moving both Big Al and Paul Millsap for KG's expiring contract.  

I mean sure they first have to give these guys lots of minutes (they are paying them boatloads of cash) and try to sucker some team into giving up an allstar point guard (Rondo), but ultimately they'd be happy just getting rid of them both in a pure salary dump, force-feeding developmental playing time to Favors and Kanter, freeing up 40 mil in cap space and tanking for a top 5 pick in a loaded draft (crossing their fingers that the Golden State pick doesn't fall below pick eight) .

Thanks.

[indeedproceed]

Couple questions for Hauntlers since he's the default Utah Jazz ambassador. 

I originally thought you guys were a potential playoff team and considered you a viable candidate to trade for Ray Allen.  You have a trade exception from trading Okur that would allow you to take on Ray's salary without giving us salary back... so then it just became about what kind of value we could get in return from you guys to make it worth our time.  One of your 1st rounders?  One of your young prospects like Hayward?  Kinda a moot point now, because you guys have currently fallen out of the playoff race.  So just to confirm... you guys would have no use for Ray Allen in a last-ditch playoff push, right?

Second question.  Since your team is falling out of the playoffs and clearly building around youth, doesn't that make both Al Jefferson AND Paul Millisap entirely expendable despite the fact they are both only 27 years old?  Clearly your future is undeniably big men Favors and Kanter.  Long-term, those guys are starting... not Al Jefferson and Millsap.  SO, wouldn't it benefit you guys to just start force-feeding minutes to them immediately and tank the season for another top pick to fit around them?  For that reason, I can see exactly why you'd jump at trading Al Jefferson for Rondo.  Jefferson is expendable.  Why even pay him 14 million this year and 15 million next year when you would rather just give those minutes to Kanter?  Why pay Millsap 8 mil this year and 8.6 million next year when you could just be giving those minutes to Favors?  The salary cap is roughly 58 million.  If you guys stand pat you have 53 million in committed salary next season... 5 mil in space.  Isn't there anyone in your fan base that would rather just get rid of Jefferson and Millsap immediately in salary dumps, head into next season with only 28.5 mil in committed salary (40 million in space to use as creatively as you choose).   You guys currently are looking at the 8th (Golden State) and 10th (your own) picks.  However, you are at risk of losing that Golden State pick if they fall any lower, because it's top 7 protected.  Meanwhile, if you guys MAKE the playoffs, you lose your draft pick to the Timberwolves... it's lotto protected this year and top-12 protected next year so currently you're projected to keep it.  Why risk falling out of the top 10 by having Jefferson and Millsap (who have no place in your future) help you win?  What purpose does winning even serve you right now?  Your "best case" scenario is making the playoffs with an 8th seed, losing your draft pick to the Timberwolves and getting destroyed in the first round.  Why do that?  Your time isn't 2012... it's years from now when your youth finally develops.  I say just tank it further... try to get into the top 5.  It's a deep draft.  Why not?  What I'm trying to say is... explain to me, as a Jazz fan, why you wouldn't trade Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson straight-up RIGHT NOW for Kevin Garnett's 21 million dollar expiring contract?  Let's assume he retires or you guys buy him out... it's purely a salary dump from your standpoint.  But why not?

What you described is what the fans want. For whatever reason, our coach isn't playing our young talent...not sure why. I don't really mind Jefferson or Millsap, both are good players in their own right, but our future isn't them so it just makes sense to trade them and get something out of them.  And no, we wouldn't be interested in Ray Allen as we're not going to make the playoffs. We suck.

So in case people skipped my post based on length... what we're saying here is that the Jazz would probably consider moving both Big Al and Paul Millsap for KG's expiring contract. 

I mean sure they first have to give these guys lots of minutes (they are paying them boatloads of cash) and try to sucker some team into giving up an allstar point guard (Rondo), but ultimately they'd be happy just getting rid of them both in a pure salary dump.

Thanks.

One guy from the Jazz fanbase would do this deal, and says other fans would do it as well. You're not talking Gospel here.

[LarBrd33]

Couple questions for Hauntlers since he's the default Utah Jazz ambassador. 

I originally thought you guys were a potential playoff team and considered you a viable candidate to trade for Ray Allen.  You have a trade exception from trading Okur that would allow you to take on Ray's salary without giving us salary back... so then it just became about what kind of value we could get in return from you guys to make it worth our time.  One of your 1st rounders?  One of your young prospects like Hayward?  Kinda a moot point now, because you guys have currently fallen out of the playoff race.  So just to confirm... you guys would have no use for Ray Allen in a last-ditch playoff push, right?

Second question.  Since your team is falling out of the playoffs and clearly building around youth, doesn't that make both Al Jefferson AND Paul Millisap entirely expendable despite the fact they are both only 27 years old?  Clearly your future is undeniably big men Favors and Kanter.  Long-term, those guys are starting... not Al Jefferson and Millsap.  SO, wouldn't it benefit you guys to just start force-feeding minutes to them immediately and tank the season for another top pick to fit around them?  For that reason, I can see exactly why you'd jump at trading Al Jefferson for Rondo.  Jefferson is expendable.  Why even pay him 14 million this year and 15 million next year when you would rather just give those minutes to Kanter?  Why pay Millsap 8 mil this year and 8.6 million next year when you could just be giving those minutes to Favors?  The salary cap is roughly 58 million.  If you guys stand pat you have 53 million in committed salary next season... 5 mil in space.  Isn't there anyone in your fan base that would rather just get rid of Jefferson and Millsap immediately in salary dumps, head into next season with only 28.5 mil in committed salary (40 million in space to use as creatively as you choose).   You guys currently are looking at the 8th (Golden State) and 10th (your own) picks.  However, you are at risk of losing that Golden State pick if they fall any lower, because it's top 7 protected.  Meanwhile, if you guys MAKE the playoffs, you lose your draft pick to the Timberwolves... it's lotto protected this year and top-12 protected next year so currently you're projected to keep it.  Why risk falling out of the top 10 by having Jefferson and Millsap (who have no place in your future) help you win?  What purpose does winning even serve you right now?  Your "best case" scenario is making the playoffs with an 8th seed, losing your draft pick to the Timberwolves and getting destroyed in the first round.  Why do that?  Your time isn't 2012... it's years from now when your youth finally develops.  I say just tank it further... try to get into the top 5.  It's a deep draft.  Why not?  What I'm trying to say is... explain to me, as a Jazz fan, why you wouldn't trade Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson straight-up RIGHT NOW for Kevin Garnett's 21 million dollar expiring contract?  Let's assume he retires or you guys buy him out... it's purely a salary dump from your standpoint.  But why not?

What you described is what the fans want. For whatever reason, our coach isn't playing our young talent...not sure why. I don't really mind Jefferson or Millsap, both are good players in their own right, but our future isn't them so it just makes sense to trade them and get something out of them.  And no, we wouldn't be interested in Ray Allen as we're not going to make the playoffs. We suck.

So in case people skipped my post based on length... what we're saying here is that the Jazz would probably consider moving both Big Al and Paul Millsap for KG's expiring contract. 

I mean sure they first have to give these guys lots of minutes (they are paying them boatloads of cash) and try to sucker some team into giving up an allstar point guard (Rondo), but ultimately they'd be happy just getting rid of them both in a pure salary dump.

Thanks.

One guy from the Jazz fanbase would do this deal, and says other fans would do it as well. You're not talking Gospel here.

My point is we might need to rethink Big Al and Millsap's value.  I'm not saying the Jazz would do it... just that it's reasonable and makes some logical sense that they'd just dump both of those guys for nothing.  No need to offer them Rondo... if you want them you could likely give up nothing more than expiring contracts. 

That's not limited to the Celtics, of course.  Any team with big expirings can step in and grab those guys.  I mean Dallas could offer Jason Terry and Lamar Odom (purely expiring)... Portland could offer Camby and Felton... etc.  That's where the price would be driven up by the picks included...

A Rondo for Al/Millsap trade makes no sense.   A Big Al + Millsap for expiring contracts and draft picks (for sweetener) makes more sense from Utah's perspective.  I mean, if you're Indiana you could just consume Big Al's salary with your cap space... they toss them a future draft pick and it's probably a done deal.

[indeedproceed]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

[LarBrd33]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

It's kinda like when Memphis dumped Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothin.  They decided they were losing anyways so why bother paying Gasol.  The Jazz have incentive to get rid of Al and Millsap, because their future stars are stuck on their bench right now behind these guys.  Theres no way they could just start Favors and Kanter right now, because it would mean benching two guys who make a combined 23 million dollars. 

I'm just sayin that if they could get rid of these guys right now as salary dumps it would benefit them.  They probably hang on to see if they can first get some major value out of them, but ultimately I think expirings and a sprinkling of draft picks gets it done.

[snively]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

Young quality for young quantity doesn't strike me as a great move at the moment, when we're so short on the former and we look to be pretty well-stocked on the latter (Bradley, JJ, 2 first rounders). 

You trade for likes of Millsap to pair with Rondo, not to replace him.

[indeedproceed]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

Young quality for young quantity doesn't strike me as a great move at the moment, when we're so short on the former and we look to be pretty well-stocked on the latter (Bradley, JJ, 2 first rounders). 

You trade for likes of Millsap to pair with Rondo, not to replace him.

The whole idea is that Millsap doesn't replace Rondo. Millsap shaves 2 million off Rondo's salary, and fills a need we're gonna have next season (PF) on a very affordable contract, and can be a second starter next to just about anyone in the league (and a very complementary starter next to Dwight Howard). Hayward again, fills a need we're going to have (swingman), and will be able to fill that need for a very long time.

The whole idea is ship out Rondo, walk into next summer with the cash, 3 1sts, and 2 starting-caliber young pieces. 

[indeedproceed]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

It's kinda like when Memphis dumped Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothin.  They decided they were losing anyways so why bother paying Gasol. 

Its still literally so screwed up that if it didn't already happen, I'd argue with it.

[Q_FBE]

I had worked out this deal previously that was verified as possible by the ESPN Trade Checker. It was a three way deal between OKC/BOS/Utah but between Big Men.

KG Bos ------> Utah
Nazr Mohommed OKC -------> Utah
Millsap Utah -------> OKC
JO Bos ---------> OKC
Perkins OKC --------> Bos
Jefferson Utah ------> Bos

Of course we could get Willy Nilly and throw in ancillary pieces like Rondo for Devon Harris......

I like hearing from fans on other boards and it would not surprise me if there was deal discussion going on between our two teams.

[jyyzzoel]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Still, I'd be pretty happy with a Millsap/Hayward/1st package for Rondo, and just standing pat the rest of the season. I think we wouldn't get all that much worse, we'd bolster depth at 2 positions, and we'd put ourselves in fantastic position for next season.

It's kinda like when Memphis dumped Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothin.  They decided they were losing anyways so why bother paying Gasol. 

Its still literally so screwed up that if it didn't already happen, I'd argue with it.

LOL

[Chris]

I had worked out this deal previously that was verified as possible by the ESPN Trade Checker. It was a three way deal between OKC/BOS/Utah but between Big Men.

KG Bos ------> Utah
Nazr Mohommed OKC -------> Utah
Millsap Utah -------> OKC
JO Bos ---------> OKC
Perkins OKC --------> Bos
Jefferson Utah ------> Bos

Of course we could get Willy Nilly and throw in ancillary pieces like Rondo for Devon Harris......

I like hearing from fans on other boards and it would not surprise me if there was deal discussion going on between our two teams.

Am I missing something major here?  So you are saying Utah would trade Jefferson and Millsap for KG and Mohammed?  Why would they do that?

[Who]

I just can't shake the notion that if you could get one of Millsap (who's been awesome this year), or Jefferson (who's been pretty good as well) for expiring contracts only, someone would have.

Teams can't get Millsap for expiring contracts. They'll have to give up talent to get him.

Al Jefferson, on the other hand, will be available for a similar package as the one Utah nabbed him on. Cap flexibility and a pair of draft picks.

It's just a matter of time until that happens ... and it'll happen when they feel comfortable handing over more minutes to Favors and Kanter. Which clearly they are not ready to do otherwise they'd have moved Big Al already.

My guess is that the summertime is now the earliest possible time for Utah to move Big Al for such a weak trade package.

[Q_FBE]

I had worked out this deal previously that was verified as possible by the ESPN Trade Checker. It was a three way deal between OKC/BOS/Utah but between Big Men.

KG Bos ------> Utah
Nazr Mohommed OKC -------> Utah
Millsap Utah -------> OKC
JO Bos ---------> OKC
Perkins OKC --------> Bos
Jefferson Utah ------> Bos

Of course we could get Willy Nilly and throw in ancillary pieces like Rondo for Devon Harris......

I like hearing from fans on other boards and it would not surprise me if there was deal discussion going on between our two teams.

Am I missing something major here?  So you are saying Utah would trade Jefferson and Millsap for KG and Mohammed?  Why would they do that?

This is a financial decision for Utah and they can promote Favors and that other kid they like that starts with the letter K. Oklahoma becomes even more dominant with Millsap. Boston gets a younger frontline that has played together in the past and they get along with Rondo (not at all a trivial item). 

[Chris]

I had worked out this deal previously that was verified as possible by the ESPN Trade Checker. It was a three way deal between OKC/BOS/Utah but between Big Men.

KG Bos ------> Utah
Nazr Mohommed OKC -------> Utah
Millsap Utah -------> OKC
JO Bos ---------> OKC
Perkins OKC --------> Bos
Jefferson Utah ------> Bos

Of course we could get Willy Nilly and throw in ancillary pieces like Rondo for Devon Harris......

I like hearing from fans on other boards and it would not surprise me if there was deal discussion going on between our two teams.

Am I missing something major here?  So you are saying Utah would trade Jefferson and Millsap for KG and Mohammed?  Why would they do that?

This is a financial decision for Utah and they can promote Favors and that other kid they like that starts with the letter K. Oklahoma becomes even more dominant with Millsap. Boston gets a younger frontline that has played together in the past and they get along with Rondo (not at all a trivial item). 

I understand it for Jefferson, but Millsap is one of the better big men in the league, and has a ton of value.  If they wanted to shed the money, they would get much more value back in return.

[LooseCannon]

It's kinda like when Memphis dumped Pau Gasol to the Lakers for nothin.  They decided they were losing anyways so why bother paying Gasol.  The Jazz have incentive to get rid of Al and Millsap, because their future stars are stuck on their bench right now behind these guys.  Theres no way they could just start Favors and Kanter right now, because it would mean benching two guys who make a combined 23 million dollars. 

I'm just sayin that if they could get rid of these guys right now as salary dumps it would benefit them.  They probably hang on to see if they can first get some major value out of them, but ultimately I think expirings and a sprinkling of draft picks gets it done.

I don't see any reason there for why Utah needs to do a deal now if they think they can get more in return by waiting until the off-season.