Jazz Fan Here

[Inside-Out]

Ha no way we give up JJ.

Like I said, I don't know much about Boston's roster and who they like...that's why I'm asking you what kind of trades would look good to you.

Hi, welcome to the blog, and thanks for joining in!

Rondo...he's probably available, but the price would be pretty high.  It would take an allstar talent to pry him loose.  His contract is pretty reasonable and he's locked in for several more years, and just entering his prime to boot.

Al Jefferson is generally liked, but is considered overpaid and a p--- poor defender.  So it would take a sweetener to avoid choking on that contract.  The GS 1st rounder might be the spoonful of sugar, but don't expect a pick back.

As far as what we'd have to offer to match salaries, don't expect much other than expirings.  Wilcox is starting to get some appreciation around here, and for some reason folks are extremely high on Brandon Bass, who has been playing very well for us.

So I think something along the lines of Rondo plus filler (Dooling?) for Jefferson and a 1st rounder would at least get listened to, but don't count on it.

[bfrombleacher]

I'd do Rondo straight up for Kanter or Favors for sure. Might even throw in the Clippers first (the Jazz might need to give up a lesser asset, like a wing or a lower pick). Fillers for salaries to work.

Al Jeff is good but we need more.

The guy above is right, the first will definitely do it for sure. Not sure the front office of the Jazz would do it though.





 

But if you swap Al Jeff for Rondo and Milsap for Bass...maybe? Upgrading Bass (who's leaving at the end of this season) in my opinion would be worth the difference in value perception between Rondo and Al Jeff. We need a future PF and the Jazz are trying to make Kanter and Favors their main guys anyway.

I imagine you might need to give up a fringe starting point as well for a filler for the Milsap swap. I only know Devin Harris who's way too good to be filler. Is there anybody else?






That's based on my loitering on the forums here. I think I value Big Al more than most people here do. But I still think Rondo's worth more.

(I think Rondo's undervalued right now based on his performance so far this season but don't tell anyone here I said that )

[pearljammer10]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7xevg7n

I like this better with the Jazz sending back Clippers or there best first rounder this year!

Wow I wouldnt give rondo for that...Add ray too? Yikes.

[Smokeeye123]

What about this...Simpler, less players involved, more pick oriented.

Warriors get: Rajon Rondo, Clippers 2012 pick
Celtics get: Devin Harris, Both Jazz 1st rounders.

Maybe this, but more realistically, any trade centered around Rondo will have to return Harris and Jefferson (or Millsap).

Ray Allen, Wilcox, Rondo Clippers 2012 1st rounder for Harris, Jefferson and both jazz first rounders. Ray Allen loses value without rondo feeding him. Pretty sure salaries match up, but I'm posting from my kindle so I cant check...I feel like this makes both teams better

[Hantlers]

What about this one, rather than Utah trading both of their 1st round picks which I'm really not too keen on.


Jazz get: Rondo, Brandon Bass, Celtics 2nd round pick

Celtics get: Harris, Paul Millsap, Warriors 1st round pick.


Millsap is a better version of Bass, I think this is pretty even.

[LooseCannon]

Jefferson makes more sense for just this season because he can play more credibly as a center, but Millsap is a better player, so that is who I would prefer in any deal.

But I wouldn't trade Rondo to Utah.  I'd be willing to talk about it with the starting point being Rondo for Millsap, the Warriors 1st round pick, and a future Utah 1st round pick.  If the Jazz seriously want Rondo, they'll come up with a counter-offer for less.  If not, move on.

[chambers]

Millsap and a pick. Not picking up the phone for Jefferson and the pick. Pick likely never ends up being half the player rondo is. Jefferson is good, but not good enough to plug our holes.

[LarBrd33]

this is a funny thread, because it's like a bunch of celtic fans pitching ideas to a Jazz fan and negotiating specifics of a hypothetical trade that both real GM's would probably laugh at.  

But I like it.  I'd like representatives from other teams' fan bases to chime in on more hypothetical trade ideas... There are a few level-headed fans who play devil's advocate ("No way would ___ do that... they'd hang up the phone immediately")... but often time they exaggerate in an attempt belittle their own players... stemming from bitterness at the current outlook of their team.  I'm guilty of it often, I'm sure.  

I've been surprised twice today. Once, by seeing Golden State fans actually supporting a Rondo for Steph Curry trade on their own forum... and now seeing a Utah fan having a high opinion of Rondo's value.  Interesting stuff.  

[LarBrd33]

Couple questions for Hauntlers since he's the default Utah Jazz ambassador.  

I originally thought you guys were a potential playoff team and considered you a viable candidate to trade for Ray Allen.  You have a trade exception from trading Okur that would allow you to take on Ray's salary without giving us salary back... so then it just became about what kind of value we could get in return from you guys to make it worth our time.  One of your 1st rounders?  One of your young prospects like Hayward?  Kinda a moot point now, because you guys have currently fallen out of the playoff race.  So just to confirm... you guys would have no use for Ray Allen in a last-ditch playoff push, right?

Second question.  Since your team is falling out of the playoffs and clearly building around youth, doesn't that make both Al Jefferson AND Paul Millisap entirely expendable despite the fact they are both only 27 years old?  Clearly your future is undeniably big men Favors and Kanter.  Long-term, those guys are starting... not Al Jefferson and Millsap.  SO, wouldn't it benefit you guys to just start force-feeding minutes to them immediately and tank the season for another top pick to fit around them?  For that reason, I can see exactly why you'd jump at trading Al Jefferson for Rondo.  Jefferson is expendable.  Why even pay him 14 million this year and 15 million next year when you would rather just give those minutes to Kanter?  Why pay Millsap 8 mil this year and 8.6 million next year when you could just be giving those minutes to Favors?  The salary cap is roughly 58 million.  If you guys stand pat you have 53 million in committed salary next season... 5 mil in space.  Isn't there anyone in your fan base that would rather just get rid of Jefferson and Millsap immediately in salary dumps, head into next season with only 28.5 mil in committed salary (40 million in space to use as creatively as you choose).   You guys currently are looking at the 8th (Golden State) and 10th (your own) picks.  However, you are at risk of losing that Golden State pick if they fall any lower, because it's top 7 protected.  Meanwhile, if you guys MAKE the playoffs, you lose your draft pick to the Timberwolves... it's lotto protected this year and top-12 protected next year so currently you're projected to keep it.  Why risk falling out of the top 10 by having Jefferson and Millsap (who have no place in your future) help you win?  What purpose does winning even serve you right now?  Your "best case" scenario is making the playoffs with an 8th seed, losing your draft pick to the Timberwolves and getting destroyed in the first round.  Why do that?  Your time isn't 2012... it's years from now when your youth finally develops.  I say just tank it further... try to get into the top 5.  It's a deep draft.  Why not?  What I'm trying to say is... explain to me, as a Jazz fan, why you wouldn't trade Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson straight-up RIGHT NOW for Kevin Garnett's 21 million dollar expiring contract?  Let's assume he retires or you guys buy him out... it's purely a salary dump from your standpoint.  But why not?

[ACF]

Welcome to CelticsBlog.

[bfrombleacher]

this is a funny thread, because it's like a bunch of celtic fans pitching ideas to a Jazz fan and negotiating specifics of a hypothetical trade that both real GM's would probably laugh at.  

But I like it.  I'd like representatives from other teams' fan bases to chime in on more hypothetical trade ideas... There are a few level-headed fans who play devil's advocate ("No way would ___ do that... they'd hang up the phone immediately")... but often time they exaggerate in an attempt belittle their own players... stemming from bitterness at the current outlook of their team.  I'm guilty of it often, I'm sure.  

I've been surprised twice today. Once, by seeing Golden State fans actually supporting a Rondo for Steph Curry trade on their own forum... and now seeing a Utah fan having a high opinion of Rondo's value.  Interesting stuff.  

The only ones that don't respect what Rondo does for this team are Celtics fans

[steve]

Ha no way we give up JJ.

JJ would be thrown into a trade if need be.  He's a good prospect but he's not untouchable by any means.  His value is a mid first round pick right now. 

[Hantlers]

Couple questions for Hauntlers since he's the default Utah Jazz ambassador.  

I originally thought you guys were a potential playoff team and considered you a viable candidate to trade for Ray Allen.  You have a trade exception from trading Okur that would allow you to take on Ray's salary without giving us salary back... so then it just became about what kind of value we could get in return from you guys to make it worth our time.  One of your 1st rounders?  One of your young prospects like Hayward?  Kinda a moot point now, because you guys have currently fallen out of the playoff race.  So just to confirm... you guys would have no use for Ray Allen in a last-ditch playoff push, right?

Second question.  Since your team is falling out of the playoffs and clearly building around youth, doesn't that make both Al Jefferson AND Paul Millisap entirely expendable despite the fact they are both only 27 years old?  Clearly your future is undeniably big men Favors and Kanter.  Long-term, those guys are starting... not Al Jefferson and Millsap.  SO, wouldn't it benefit you guys to just start force-feeding minutes to them immediately and tank the season for another top pick to fit around them?  For that reason, I can see exactly why you'd jump at trading Al Jefferson for Rondo.  Jefferson is expendable.  Why even pay him 14 million this year and 15 million next year when you would rather just give those minutes to Kanter?  Why pay Millsap 8 mil this year and 8.6 million next year when you could just be giving those minutes to Favors?  The salary cap is roughly 58 million.  If you guys stand pat you have 53 million in committed salary next season... 5 mil in space.  Isn't there anyone in your fan base that would rather just get rid of Jefferson and Millsap immediately in salary dumps, head into next season with only 28.5 mil in committed salary (40 million in space to use as creatively as you choose).   You guys currently are looking at the 8th (Golden State) and 10th (your own) picks.  However, you are at risk of losing that Golden State pick if they fall any lower, because it's top 7 protected.  Meanwhile, if you guys MAKE the playoffs, you lose your draft pick to the Timberwolves... it's lotto protected this year and top-12 protected next year so currently you're projected to keep it.  Why risk falling out of the top 10 by having Jefferson and Millsap (who have no place in your future) help you win?  What purpose does winning even serve you right now?  Your "best case" scenario is making the playoffs with an 8th seed, losing your draft pick to the Timberwolves and getting destroyed in the first round.  Why do that?  Your time isn't 2012... it's years from now when your youth finally develops.  I say just tank it further... try to get into the top 5.  It's a deep draft.  Why not?  What I'm trying to say is... explain to me, as a Jazz fan, why you wouldn't trade Paul Millsap and Al Jefferson straight-up RIGHT NOW for Kevin Garnett's 21 million dollar expiring contract?  Let's assume he retires or you guys buy him out... it's purely a salary dump from your standpoint.  But why not?

What you described is what the fans want. For whatever reason, our coach isn't playing our young talent...not sure why. I don't really mind Jefferson or Millsap, both are good players in their own right, but our future isn't them so it just makes sense to trade them and get something out of them.  And no, we wouldn't be interested in Ray Allen as we're not going to make the playoffs. We suck.

[indeedproceed]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7vtvrkh

I'd accept that return for Rondo, along with the worst of utah's 1sts.

Move Pierce (or don't) and pursue deron Williams/ Dwight hardcore this summer. Then, you can populate your team with your 3 1sts and role players.

Dw
Hayward
?
Millsap
Howard

[snively]

I don't think Rondo's available for a lesser player and a pick.  I think it would be Rondo and a pick for a better player if Rondo were to be moved.

Bird in the hand and all.

That said, I'd give Utah anything else for Millsap.  You want a PG? How about Bradley?  You want a replacement PF? How about Bass or JJ?  You want yet another pick?  We have two.  You want a scoring wing? Ray and Pierce are pretty good.