Author Topic: A Most Discouraging Win  (Read 8072 times)

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A Most Discouraging Win
« on: February 28, 2012, 10:40:17 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Jeff's headline on the game story is accurate yet alarming. Yes, KG played well, as did Bass in his return to action, and Allen and Wilcox had very good games, and that's all well and good as far as it goes. And I guess I should just be happy that they got the W and leave it at that.

I won't, though. Because this was Cleveland. Minus its second-best player. And Boston won by a measly 3 points despite holding the Cavs to 39.7% shooting. Also, Boston committed 17 turnovers against one of the league's worst defenses. Pierce continued to shoot awful, and Rondo got owned. After storming out of the gates with 28 first-quarter points, Boston reverted to its usual anemic offense: 15 second-quarter points. Woeful. And the third and fourth quarters weren't much better. Boston was even trailing at the end of the third.

This is supposed to inspire fan confidence? Boston's getting owned by the good teams, and is barely managing wins against teams they should be beating by 20 points. The right attitude just isn't there with these guys. Lack of rest hurts them, but abundance of rest doesn't help them. Injuries hurt them, but being healthy doesn't help them. A commenter on Jeff's game story said the Celtics looked focused and energized tonight; focus and energy are things these guys have for maybe 25% of any given game.

Listen, I love this team and its potential, and I'm happy they got the win tonight, but this is the best they've got after a 5-day layoff?
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Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 10:41:40 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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i will take any win we can get

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I think we just need to learn to accept that this is the team we have now -- we should be happy with any victory, regardless of how it's earned.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

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Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 10:47:32 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I never have seen a team in my life (celtics ) so lost without a center.

Our team isn't the trail blazers or hawks we gotta have a "REAL"  big , active , young intense center ....not a 6 10 make shift center.

We are missing THE CORE piece , to even this team being really good.  Besides KG there is no interior rebounding or defense.

Rondo played miserable , he tossed the ball away like it was high school BB, he passed off WIDE open looks at the basket.

I wonder if he is ADS .... scatter brain plays and ball control.

Or is PP and Rondo playing themselves off the team?


« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 10:59:21 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2012, 10:53:09 PM »

Offline Tai

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We only allowed 83 points. You already mentioned we limited the Cavs to under 40% shooting.

Maybe that "center" we need is Gasol.

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 10:57:58 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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We only allowed 83 points. You already mentioned we limited the Cavs to under 40% shooting.

Maybe that "center" we need is Gasol.

I 'm warming up to that idea more everyday

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 11:03:48 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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We have three problems: rebounding, turnovers, and creating shots. Tonight our problem was turnovers. I agree we need a center but that wasn't the problem tonight.

I like the gasol deal but it makes me nervous that the deal has been rumored for a while but hasn't happened. That leads me to believe that they want Bass instead of Jo. I'm not sure I'd do that deal.
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Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 11:15:35 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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We have three problems: rebounding, turnovers, and creating shots. Tonight our problem was turnovers. I agree we need a center but that wasn't the problem tonight.

I like the gasol deal but it makes me nervous that the deal has been rumored for a while but hasn't happened. That leads me to believe that they want Bass instead of Jo. I'm not sure I'd do that deal.

yeah , adding Bass/Wilcox is out of the question with me , maybe Pietrus and Dooling thrown in. It really is pathetic to watch. If Varejau had been there they would have stomped us like rats.

I just have to think , given we once had the biggest line up of centers in the NBA , our team was designed to operate ( given the big threes ages ) around a Big man like Shaq , Perk, or JO .





 

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 11:51:42 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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I just dont understand why we are giving dooling more minutes, i want Bradley to average 20-25 minutes, I love watching this kid play,  hes playing good lockdown defense and is showing more confidence in his offense

and yes we also need a real center

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 01:22:03 AM »

Offline get_banners

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maybe dooling is getting more minutes to help shop him. i see no reason to keep him at all at this point - bradley and moore have both shown enough to warrant being the 2nd and 3rd PGs.

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 01:50:27 AM »

Offline Q_FBE

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How can a win be discouraging? Every team has a chance to win in the NBA, even Charlotte and Washington (OK I am reaching a bit but I think you understand what I am saying). If you are discouraged by this win, then your expectations must be lowered or you need to move on to baseball, hockey, or soccer.
The beatings will continue until morale improves

a Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 02:12:26 AM »

Offline greenlion

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it was U G L Y..but i'll take it..
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Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2012, 02:16:30 AM »

Offline edwardjkasche

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I'm with the initial poster.

Win or no win, fans want to see their team playing efficiently and building toward something [if a better team beats you, so be it].  This begins by playing solid basketball, including doing the things teams need to do to win - hustle, box out, rebound, play defense, score efficiently (or grab offensive boards), score in transition, etc.

The C's may have hustled tonight (and played adequate defense), but they have suffered all season long from an inability to box out/rebound and score in an efficient fashion.  They also turn the ball over too much.  It's becoming embarrassing to watch this team play, even more embarrassing because there are THREE Hall of Famers on the team and FOUR All Stars (in the past two years).  Think about that - FOUR of the starters are All Stars - and they cannot play consistent basketball.  And, this is NOT on the bench.  Four All Stars should be able to build a solid lead before handing off to the bench, and the Celtics actually have a solid bench this season.  Bass, Wilcox, Pietrus, Bradley... they're playing well on both sides of the ball and in every facet in which Doc uses them.  Yes, the team yearns for an influx of size, but simply adding a 7-footer will not solve the C's' problems.  This Celtics team suffers from not playing good, solid basketball.  

This is a CLEAR SIGN that Ainge needs to act now (but not in the way you may think)!!!

If your team cannot rebound or score efficiently, then your team is not good.  And, if your team struggles to contain a young team playing without its second-best player, then your team is not good.  The Celtics are not a good team right now.

This is the third time this season the Celtics have played the Cavs.  They've lost by one once and won by three twice.  Against the young and inexperienced Cavs (this last time without Varejao on the court)!!!  Let's not even talk about the Celtics' inability since December to defeat the lowly Pistons.  It seems like forever since the team knocked off the Magic and the Pacers.

The Celtics may be able to get themselves up once or twice to beat a contender like the Bulls or...(actually the Bulls are the only true contender they've defeated all season - without Rose!), but they cannot defeat the teams they should defeat and they cannot compete with the contenders on a daily basis, which means a first-round exit is likely.

Due to this poor play in the basics of the game, Ainge needs to consider a trade in lieu of focusing entirely on free agency.  

Let me first explain why waiting out the season and working through free agency may not be the best idea: Ainge knows that the key free agents (Howard, Deron) are a hard-sell to come to Boston, and most other talented ('special') free agents have already been locked up.  There are good (R or UR) free agents: BATUM, Asik, Eric Gordon, Hibbert, McGee, Mayo, Ryan Anderson... though most are Restricted, and NONE are true game-changers.  So, most of the available talent in the off-season is 'complimentary'.  Ainge knows, and has said repeatedly, that championship teams are built on 'special', game-changing players.  He cannot, and I think won't, wait for free agency.

The Celtics have game-changing talents (four Hall of Famers) that aren't playing up to their talent level.  With this talent, the team should be a championship contender, but instead it's a middling non-contender.  The team needs to be shaken up, if not for this season, then next.  Trade game-changing talent for game-changing talent.  Mix it up.  Get a new core in there now and give them the rest of this season as an elongated pre-season, with a shot at a playoff run.  Aim for next season, where, if handled correctly, the Big-3 (4? 5?) could mount another championship run with a few new pieces.

Being honest, there are ONLY four players on the team worthy of being considered 'solo' trade material: Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG.  Everyone else is a 'throw-in'.

Personally, here are my feelings on trading the current roster:

Rondo - He's the team's big trade chip - a 26-year-old All Star PG who often acts petulant and stand-offish and whose game doesn't match his teammates' game.  Don't misunderstand me, Rondo is a talent, an All Star, and a 'sometimes' game-changer, but I do not believe he's the answer at PG for this current Celtics team, nor do I believe he's worth building around in the next Celtics era.  Therefore, he's tradeable.  Since he's young and talented, he should bring back a plus-talent.  If I were Ainge every trade would be considered, but I'd only trade him if it were for an equal or better talent.

Allen - You only trade Allen if you bring back younger plus-talent.  Allen is too useful to any playoff team, incl. the Celtics, to trade for a measly draft pick or marginal young talent.  Therefore, I wouldn't trade Allen and I would push to re-sign him in the off-season.  It would take an absolute steal in order for me to consider trading Ray.

Pierce - Pierce would need to reap a haul in a trade to make it worth it.  He's the Captain of the team.  How often are Captains traded?  Unless a trade brings back a young multi-All Star talent then it's a bad trade.  Pierce is still the only player on the Celts who can create his own offense, and, don't be fooled, his shot will fall regularly soon enough.  Also, and you can consider me soft, but Pierce deserves to retire a Celtic.  It will be shameful if he doesn't.

KG - In my opinion, he is THE untradeable asset on the team IF the team is hoping to stay relevant in the next few seasons.  First off, I believe he will re-sign with the team this off-season because he hopes to retire a Celtic.  He has his ring.  Believing that, trading KG will shatter the team defensively, leaving them with an inefficient offense and a below-average defense.  He's also the leader of this team, notwithstanding the Captaincy of Pierce.  KG is the vet elder who yearns to bring his best game every night.  You cannot trade him for anything worth value, not even a $20 million trade exception.

O'Neal - Of course I'm open to trading him, but what's he gonna bring back?  His salary is of use in a trade, at least.  Because of that I'd include him in any trade...if another team will have him.

Bass - Personally, I wouldn't include Bass in a trade, as I consider him a plus contributor to the next few seasons.  I'd push for Bass to pick up his player option after the season, and hope to re-sign him long-term.  He is a good contributing player.

Bradley - He is certainly progressing this season, but there is no reason to believe that he'll eventually become a consistent contributing player, so I'd be open to trading him, but only if the talent matched up.  If he brought back a 7-footer or a more-advanced guard, then I'd throw him in on a deal.  Otherwise, I'd keep him and continue to develop him.  If Rondo is traded, it's best to keep him as a backup for continuity's sake.

Wilcox - If the team made a push this season, then Wilcox could prove himself to be a big contributing factor.  However, the team may not make that push, so I'm open to trading Wilcox.  

Pietrus - If the team made a push this season, then Pietrus could prove himself to be a big contributing factor.  However, the team may not make that push, so I'm open to trading Pietrus.  

Dooling - If any team would take him, considering he's oft-injured and not-too-talented of late, then I would throw him in.

Stiemsma - No team would take him in a trade, as his salary and overall talent level are too low.

Johnson - I like his talent and would try to keep him.  But, if another team wants him as a throw-in and the talent we're bringing back is plus, then I would trade him.

Moore - I like his talent and would try to keep him.  But, if another team wants him as a throw-in and the talent we're bringing back is plus, then I would trade him.

Pavlovic - If any team would take him, considering he's not-too-talented of late, then I would throw him in.

Daniels If any team would take him, considering he's not-too-talented of late, then I would throw him in.

Something needs to be done.  That is evident.  This team, as constructed, is NOT a contender.  Not this season.  Not next.  

Since Rondo is my main trade bait, you're probably wondering who I'd consider trading him for.  Well, that will have to come in a day or two because I need to research and I'm tired of writing.

Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 02:16:39 AM »

Offline Bahku

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A win is a win, and that's what this game is about. This has been the most consistently injured team this year - bar none - to this point ... please stop expecting miracles, and be thankful for the improvements that we had tonight, and there were more than a couple.
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Re: A Most Discouraging Win
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 03:27:54 AM »

Offline jdz101

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I too was pretty underwhelmed.

Although there were some positives and the team performed well under pressure at the end for the most part, there were some inexcusable things that happened during the game.

Namely the play with 3 minutes left where jamison missed a three and bass and garnett failed to box out a rookie point guard from getting a putback. Plays like that in such a close game make my blood boil as a fan.

I cant see for the life of me see why Keyon Dooling is still getting Moore and Bradley's minutes. He is definitely not a significant upgrade over either of those two guys and there is so much more to gain from playing the kids and giving them as much experience and confidence as possible, even if they do make mistakes.


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