Author Topic: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up  (Read 5077 times)

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This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« on: February 24, 2012, 01:28:57 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I know tons of the posters here are in a rush to send every player on this team out of town now so that we can get into the top end of the lottery and have about a less than 1% chance of getting a top 3 pick but not me. I say ride it out and get the cap space.

Now I have also seen that people say what good is the cap space going to do since know one wants to come here anyway. So let's assume we play out the season, denounce all our free agents and get this $25 million or so in cap space. So we won't get Dwight Howard. But where does Howard want to go?

LA, Dallas and NJ.

Well if he wants to go to LA so bad let's let him. All the Lakers do is they have Fisher retire and buy out Walton which could conceivably open enough cap space to sign Howard if they trade Bynum to a team for a trade exception. Trade him to the Celtics for a trade exception and a future conditional first rounder.

Suddenly the Celtics have

Rondo
Bradley
Pierce
Johnson
Bynum

Moore
1st rounder
1st rounder
2nd rounder
Enoungh cap space to sign either Bass or Green
Ray Allen - signed for the $2.5 million exception
4 vet minimum contracts undrafted rookies

Will this team be good. Probably not. Which is fine Let them stink for a year or so.

But then resign Bynum, amnesty Pierce and let him retire on someone else's time and the year after the Celtics now have:

Moore, Bradley, Johnson, 2 2nd year 1st round draft picks, a 1st round draft pick, a 2nd year 2nd round draft pick, a 2nd rounder

Rondo
Green or Bass
Ray
Bynum

And enough cap space to sign a large salary free agent(Millsap, Ibaka, Harden) or trade for another star someone doesn't want.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 01:56:42 PM by nickagneta »

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 01:39:54 PM »

Offline lightspeed5

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bynum is worthless because SF is more important than center. the point is you use money to be faster. We're trying to beat the heat, we need to stack up on quickness, not centers/bigs

id rather have great guards and forwards instead of a great center (unless its d12)

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 01:53:05 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
bynum is worthless because SF is more important than center. the point is you use money to be faster. We're trying to beat the heat, we need to stack up on quickness, not centers/bigs

I disagree.

I think this is not a bad plan.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 01:56:03 PM »

Offline Eja117

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 01:56:21 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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interesting way to get Bynum.  not a bad idea. 

PP will never be amnested by Boston.  No way Wyc would let Danny do that.  Besides, at that point PP has just one year left on the deal. 

Based on the line-up you've projected, I see Green as the more important keeper over Bass. 

Also, I may be wrong on this one but I think the C's have 2 2nd rounders in the 2013 draft.  I think they have Cleveland's pick.  it probably won't be as close to the beginning of the round as initially anticipated but Danny does well in the second round.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 02:05:36 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.
if the trading deadline passes and Danny makes no major moves, I'm expecting a real youth movement next year.  rondo, Bradley, JJJ, Moore, Green (or Bass or both), 2 1st rounders and 1 2nd rounder makes for a very young team.  I'm not sure Steimer returns but we'll need bigs so he very well may be back.

Add in PP and Bynum (if Nick's trade happens), there's not many vets for Doc.  Obviously, Danny will have to sign some placeholders to get through the year but if he's smart, he puts them on 1-year deals to keep cap space for the following year. 

KG and Ray walking after this year is not an issue in my book.  ideally Danny lands some talent or picks for them this year but I don't think other teams will give us much for a 2 month rental.  Worst case is we have cap room to use during the offseason.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 02:07:33 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Better than a lot of the stuff I've read on here.

I still have qualms about Bynum's durability in the long run, though.  Not sure if the C's would ever amnesty Pierce, either.


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Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 02:09:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.
I think Doc not playing young players has proven to be false so many times on this blog, that to even respond to it is just a complete and utter waste of time, but here goes.

Give Doc these players and he will grow them....IF THEY HAVE TALENT.

Proof:

List all the players that Doc got as young players that are striving elsewhere.

Hint:

Don't choose Bill Walker as he is only still in the NBA because NY gutted that team of talent except for their top three stars and Landry Fields and now Jeremy Lin.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 02:13:33 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Regarding the amnesty of Pierce, if the C's and Pierce discuss that after next year he is deciding to retire, they could conceivably amnesty him and Pierce could let it be known he's retiring. So, his salary comes off the books without any buyout or anything and Pierce retires a Celtic for life.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 02:24:11 PM »

Offline Eja117

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.
I think Doc not playing young players has proven to be false so many times on this blog, that to even respond to it is just a complete and utter waste of time, but here goes.

Give Doc these players and he will grow them....IF THEY HAVE TALENT.

Proof:

List all the players that Doc got as young players that are striving elsewhere.

Hint:

Don't choose Bill Walker as he is only still in the NBA because NY gutted that team of talent except for their top three stars and Landry Fields and now Jeremy Lin.
Oh it's been proven false repeatedly here on this blog, but in real life in the NBA it is being proven right now.

Are you saying JJJ, Bradley, and Moore don't have talent? And that they won't do well elsewhere.

I think maybe you mean young players that Doc didn't play that are doing well elsewhere. Because obviously there are young players that went elsewhere and did fine.

I'd point to Tony Allen as someone who was here even with the Big 3 and we miss him pretty bad.

Also I don't think there was much need for young players once the Big 3 was here. Plus we started picking pretty low in the draft.  There is no comparison between JR Giddens and JJJ, but there is some valid comparison to JJJ and Al Jefferson. There is no comparison between Etwaun Moore and Orien Green, but there is some valid comparison between him and Delonte.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2012, 02:29:00 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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If Howard wants to go to LA so bad I think he would just be traded in a S+T for Bynum. No reason for the Lakers to help out their greatest rival and there is no reason Orlando should get nothing for Howard. Bynum is basically the second best Center in the NBA right now. Can't see why Orlando wouldn't take him if their alternative is letting Howard walk.


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Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2012, 02:30:59 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.
I think Doc not playing young players has proven to be false so many times on this blog, that to even respond to it is just a complete and utter waste of time, but here goes.

Give Doc these players and he will grow them....IF THEY HAVE TALENT.

Proof:

List all the players that Doc got as young players that are striving elsewhere.

Hint:

Don't choose Bill Walker as he is only still in the NBA because NY gutted that team of talent except for their top three stars and Landry Fields and now Jeremy Lin.
Oh it's been proven false repeatedly here on this blog, but in real life in the NBA it is being proven right now.

Are you saying JJJ, Bradley, and Moore don't have talent? And that they won't do well elsewhere.

I think maybe you mean young players that Doc didn't play that are doing well elsewhere. Because obviously there are young players that went elsewhere and did fine.

I'd point to Tony Allen as someone who was here even with the Big 3 and we miss him pretty bad.

Also I don't think there was much need for young players once the Big 3 was here. Plus we started picking pretty low in the draft.  There is no comparison between JR Giddens and JJJ, but there is some valid comparison to JJJ and Al Jefferson. There is no comparison between Etwaun Moore and Orien Green, but there is some valid comparison between him and Delonte.

Big baby and Leon Powe got tons of playing time especially in their second years.


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Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2012, 02:31:10 PM »

Offline CelticsFanNC

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  I am absolutely someone who thinks Danny Ainge should be putting all of his energy into the future and forget about contending this season.  This team is done as contender until we add some new core pieces.  I also though am not necessarily a proponent of blowing it up.  If someone wants Paul Pierce or anyone else bad enough to offer Ainge a deal he cannot refuse then you pounce on it but otherwise just ride it out.  There is no rush to dump anyone just for the sake of shaking things up.

  This plan is a pretty good one.  I'm not a huge Bynum fan but it's not because of his game but because he cannot stay healthy.  Our track record on bringing in injury prone players hasn't been so hot lately but he is a younger guy who might figure out a way to stay healthy or just might be over due for some good luck on the injury front.

  Some here just want to trade anyone for anything we can get in return.  Other wants to deal Rondo for 50 cents on the dollar.  Still others was to tank for a chance to get lucky in the lottery.  I am none of the above but I do believe our core with the exception of Rondo is too old to legitimately contend for anything this season.

Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2012, 02:34:28 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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A team of Rondo, Bynum, Green, and free agent / trade target to be named later sounds like perpetual second round fodder to me.


Also, why wouldnt Orlando sign and trade Howard for Bynum?  I dont really understand your reasoning for why LA would just give Bynum away.
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Re: This is how you rebuild...from a guy that says not to blow it up
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2012, 02:40:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If I understand this correctly the plan is to let KG walk for nothing, try to get Bynum for nothing, hold on to Ray for two more years after this one.  THEN try to sign a free agent, not this summer, but next summer when we let PP walk for nothing.

For me personally the attraction to blowing it up is giving Doc no choice but to play young guys. If Ray is still around Bradley won't get pt (unless Rondo is gone and only if we don't get a vet pg in return....we get Jordan Farmar and Bradley goes back on the milk carton). If Bass or KG or Green is around we're gonna need an Amber Alert to find JJJ at the end of the bench.
I think Doc not playing young players has proven to be false so many times on this blog, that to even respond to it is just a complete and utter waste of time, but here goes.

Give Doc these players and he will grow them....IF THEY HAVE TALENT.

Proof:

List all the players that Doc got as young players that are striving elsewhere.

Hint:

Don't choose Bill Walker as he is only still in the NBA because NY gutted that team of talent except for their top three stars and Landry Fields and now Jeremy Lin.
Oh it's been proven false repeatedly here on this blog, but in real life in the NBA it is being proven right now.

Are you saying JJJ, Bradley, and Moore don't have talent? And that they won't do well elsewhere.

I think maybe you mean young players that Doc didn't play that are doing well elsewhere. Because obviously there are young players that went elsewhere and did fine.

I'd point to Tony Allen as someone who was here even with the Big 3 and we miss him pretty bad.

Also I don't think there was much need for young players once the Big 3 was here. Plus we started picking pretty low in the draft.  There is no comparison between JR Giddens and JJJ, but there is some valid comparison to JJJ and Al Jefferson. There is no comparison between Etwaun Moore and Orien Green, but there is some valid comparison between him and Delonte.
Allen played here 6 years he was 27 when he left on his own accord and he got plenty of playing time here. He averaged 18-19 MPG here. He only averaged 20 MPG last year in Memphis. His stats haven't really changed. He just didn't want to be here.

Jefferson was traded for another asset. What he is doing elsewhere he did here in his last year.

Doc developed both these players and played them. Your examples make zero sense.

Doc develops players at a pace that is proven to be best for them. If they develop quickly they get playing time(see Mike Miller, Glen Davis, Rajon Rondo, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Delonte West) and vets are discarded. If they develop slowly they get spoon fed minutes until they are ready(see Perkins, Bradley, Moore, Johnson, Powe, Allan).If they suck, they almost never see the floor and then are discarded and never are heard from again(see Oriene Greene, JR Giddens, Lester Hudson, Luke Haragody, Semih Erden, Allan Ray, Brandon Hunter, Kedrick Brown, Joesph Forte)