Author Topic: Jordan/Giddens  (Read 8889 times)

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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2012, 10:36:54 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I looked it up.  According to his agent, the guy we made a promise to was George Hill.

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Possibly the biggest surprise of the first round of the recent NBA draft was IUPUI guard George Hill being selected by the Spurs with the 26th pick. But if that didn't happen, could Hill have ended up a Celtic? Hill was projected by many as a second-round pick and wasn't even listed among the 123 prospects in the NBA's predraft media guide. But after Hill's introductory news conference in San Antonio, his agent, Michael Whitaker, said the Celtics had promised to select Hill with the 30th pick if he was available. With Hill off the board, Boston selected New Mexico guard J.R. Giddens with its first-round pick.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/13/not_one_to_simmer/?page=full

Who knows what the truth is, but Hill would have been a heck of a lot better than Giddens.


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 10:40:10 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I looked it up.  According to his agent, the guy we made a promise to was George Hill.

Quote
Possibly the biggest surprise of the first round of the recent NBA draft was IUPUI guard George Hill being selected by the Spurs with the 26th pick. But if that didn't happen, could Hill have ended up a Celtic? Hill was projected by many as a second-round pick and wasn't even listed among the 123 prospects in the NBA's predraft media guide. But after Hill's introductory news conference in San Antonio, his agent, Michael Whitaker, said the Celtics had promised to select Hill with the 30th pick if he was available. With Hill off the board, Boston selected New Mexico guard J.R. Giddens with its first-round pick.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/13/not_one_to_simmer/?page=full

Who knows what the truth is, but Hill would have been a heck of a lot better than Giddens.
So Danny could have picked Jordan.  Great

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 10:49:54 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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I looked it up.  According to his agent, the guy we made a promise to was George Hill.

Quote
Possibly the biggest surprise of the first round of the recent NBA draft was IUPUI guard George Hill being selected by the Spurs with the 26th pick. But if that didn't happen, could Hill have ended up a Celtic? Hill was projected by many as a second-round pick and wasn't even listed among the 123 prospects in the NBA's predraft media guide. But after Hill's introductory news conference in San Antonio, his agent, Michael Whitaker, said the Celtics had promised to select Hill with the 30th pick if he was available. With Hill off the board, Boston selected New Mexico guard J.R. Giddens with its first-round pick.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/13/not_one_to_simmer/?page=full

Who knows what the truth is, but Hill would have been a heck of a lot better than Giddens.
So Danny could have picked Jordan.  Great

Did you think Danny messed up big at that point in time? Or did you have no clue about either of those guys?

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 10:54:59 AM »

Offline CelticG1

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I can understand if we picked our top 10 pick and picked Yi, Green, or that dude from FL(drawing blank). But how can you blame a guy on the 30th pick?

I mean if people are missing bad on top 10 picks you can't blame a guy drafting in the 30's where most of the time no one great is being drafted anyway

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 11:00:49 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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It's easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback when hindsight's 20/20.

Sure, in retrospect, drafting Jordan was the right move.  Easy to say now.  Not so easy to say back then.   The guy ended up being the #35 pick in the draft so a lot of teams whiffed on him.  It happens.  Glance at any draft and its easy to ask what the heck some GM was thinking at the time. 

Personally, I think a lot of what comes out of the late 1st round and 2nd round is an absolute crapshoot, especially with the US college guys.  You never know.


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 11:08:07 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I looked it up.  According to his agent, the guy we made a promise to was George Hill.

Quote
Possibly the biggest surprise of the first round of the recent NBA draft was IUPUI guard George Hill being selected by the Spurs with the 26th pick. But if that didn't happen, could Hill have ended up a Celtic? Hill was projected by many as a second-round pick and wasn't even listed among the 123 prospects in the NBA's predraft media guide. But after Hill's introductory news conference in San Antonio, his agent, Michael Whitaker, said the Celtics had promised to select Hill with the 30th pick if he was available. With Hill off the board, Boston selected New Mexico guard J.R. Giddens with its first-round pick.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/07/13/not_one_to_simmer/?page=full

Who knows what the truth is, but Hill would have been a heck of a lot better than Giddens.
So Danny could have picked Jordan.  Great

Did you think Danny messed up big at that point in time? Or did you have no clue about either of those guys?
I'm not paid what Danny is to have no clue. Seriously I can pick bad players for a fraction of what he does.

At the time I had no clue about JR Giddens, which is why I suspected he messed up on that one

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 11:14:37 AM »

Offline Eja117

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It's easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback when hindsight's 20/20.

Sure, in retrospect, drafting Jordan was the right move.  Easy to say now.  Not so easy to say back then.   The guy ended up being the #35 pick in the draft so a lot of teams whiffed on him.  It happens.  Glance at any draft and its easy to ask what the heck some GM was thinking at the time. 

Personally, I think a lot of what comes out of the late 1st round and 2nd round is an absolute crapshoot, especially with the US college guys.  You never know.
But if you're going to just throw darts at a board, couldn't the board have tall kids on it? I give credit to Golden State for Jeremy Tyler rather than Travis Leslie. Granted they all missed on Isiah Thomas, but that's not my point. Golden State needed bigs anyway

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 11:15:22 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Whiffing on the #30 pick on the NBA Draft isn't something that gets me worked up. 

If you swing & miss on a lottery pick, I have a much bigger issue. 

Missing on a late 1st rounder or any 2nd rounder happens all the time.

I think some people want to see these GMs bat 1.000 in the draft.   It just doesn't happen. 


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2012, 11:19:18 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Whiffing on the #30 pick on the NBA Draft isn't something that gets me worked up. 

If you swing & miss on a lottery pick, I have a much bigger issue. 

Missing on a late 1st rounder or any 2nd rounder happens all the time.

I think some people want to see these GMs bat 1.000 in the draft.   It just doesn't happen. 

While I generally agree -- no GM can be held to a standard of perfection -- I do think that that 2008 was a surprisingly bad one for Danny.  At the time, there were three guys fans were clamoring for:  Chalmers, CDR, and Jordan.  All seemed like steals, and I was very surprised to see Danny pass on them.

Stuff like that happens for whatever reason, and I don't understand it.  It was crazy seeing team after team pass on Ryan Gomes in 2005, and amazing to see so many teams pass over Chase Budinger and DeJuan Blair in 2009.  These guys just all seemed like very obvious picks that few teams seemed all that interested in.


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 11:31:41 AM »

Offline feckless

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Isn't the Giddens year the same year we drafted Bill Walker--makes Danny's passing on Jordan even more of a mistake.  Drafting two shooting guards with similar skill sets over a big who pans out --Danny deserves some grief for that one.
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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 11:33:14 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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It's real easy to criticize draft picks, but at the time it seemed like the better fit would have been Jordan or Chalmers, since the Cs were taking guys out of the retirement home for backups at their positions.

I like athletic seven footers who can run the floor like a deer and have standing reaches that allow them to put up a basketball net without a step stool. Jordan would have been a wiser reach at 30 than a dime a dozen swingman who spent a half decade in college.  

The point of Simmon's column was that Ainge has made bad move after bad move since the title year, and if he managed to squeeze in one or two good ones, the KG era would probably have at least one other title and a better ending.  That seems irrefutable to me, although that type of hindsight column by definition is like fishing in a barrel.  


  

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 11:35:22 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Whiffing on the #30 pick on the NBA Draft isn't something that gets me worked up. 

If you swing & miss on a lottery pick, I have a much bigger issue. 

Missing on a late 1st rounder or any 2nd rounder happens all the time.

I think some people want to see these GMs bat 1.000 in the draft.   It just doesn't happen. 

While I generally agree -- no GM can be held to a standard of perfection -- I do think that that 2008 was a surprisingly bad one for Danny.  At the time, there were three guys fans were clamoring for:  Chalmers, CDR, and Jordan.  All seemed like steals, and I was very surprised to see Danny pass on them.

Stuff like that happens for whatever reason, and I don't understand it.  It was crazy seeing team after team pass on Ryan Gomes in 2005, and amazing to see so many teams pass over Chase Budinger and DeJuan Blair in 2009.  These guys just all seemed like very obvious picks that few teams seemed all that interested in.

No clue.  I think you'd have to be in the draft war-rooms of these teams to really know what's going on.   I'm sure these things are discussed.  We just don't get to see/hear it for the most part. 


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 11:42:48 AM »

Online Roy H.

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The point of Simmon's column was that Ainge has made bad move after bad move since the title year, and if he managed to squeeze in one or two good ones, the KG era would probably have at least one other title and a better ending.  That seems irrefutable to me, although that type of hindsight column by definition is like fishing in a barrel.  

Yeah, I don't like the hindsight aspect.

Sure, Rasheed Wallace and Marquis Daniels didn't work out.  Who was saying they were bad signings at the time, though?  Adding Shaq, JO, Delonte, and Wafer in the same off-season seemed pretty solid, too.  Most fans were ready to run Tony out of town at the time. 

The only time I can remember Danny getting criticized at the time of his decision was the 2008 off-season.  People like the Bill Walker pick, but otherwise, each of Danny's moves was pretty roundly criticized.  Picking POB over Chris Andersen?  Bad.  Dragging his feet on the Posey situation and not finding an adequate replacement?  Bad.  Heck, if we want to include the franchise as a whole, rather than just Danny, then we can add "not addressing KG's bone spurs and having him play through pain".  Terrible.

After the brilliance of 2007, 2008 was just horrible.  Outside of that, though, I think the only other black mark on Danny's record has been the Perk trade, which, if nothing else, was timed horribly. 


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Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 11:49:50 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Whiffing on the #30 pick on the NBA Draft isn't something that gets me worked up. 

If you swing & miss on a lottery pick, I have a much bigger issue. 

Missing on a late 1st rounder or any 2nd rounder happens all the time.

I think some people want to see these GMs bat 1.000 in the draft.   It just doesn't happen. 

While I generally agree -- no GM can be held to a standard of perfection -- I do think that that 2008 was a surprisingly bad one for Danny.  At the time, there were three guys fans were clamoring for:  Chalmers, CDR, and Jordan.  All seemed like steals, and I was very surprised to see Danny pass on them.

Stuff like that happens for whatever reason, and I don't understand it.  It was crazy seeing team after team pass on Ryan Gomes in 2005, and amazing to see so many teams pass over Chase Budinger and DeJuan Blair in 2009.  These guys just all seemed like very obvious picks that few teams seemed all that interested in.
Agreed with you and Dons here.

Re: Jordan/Giddens
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 11:57:40 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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It was crazy seeing team after team pass on Ryan Gomes in 2005, and amazing to see so many teams pass over Chase Budinger and DeJuan Blair in 2009.  These guys just all seemed like very obvious picks that few teams seemed all that interested in.


DeJuan Blair really made no sense to me.  I know teams were put off by his lack of size and the questionable state of his knees, but he hasn't had any health issues yet, and clearly he's quite a player.  

Surely the Spurs weren't the only ones who could see that -- DeJuan was the best player for a very good, very high profile college team at Pitt.  

That sort of mistake sticks out to me a lot more than missing on project bigs like Deandre.  For every Deandre Jordan there are ten to twenty Ryan Hollins', Hilton Armstrongs, Hassan Whitesides, and Byron Mullins'.  

Seems that relatively often, however, teams get burned by the DeJuan Blairs and Carlos Boozers (and Glen Davis's) -- guys who put up good numbers in good programs in college but for whatever reasons were considered injury risks or who supposedly weren't going to fit in the NBA.

I wonder the same thing about guys like Nikola Pekovic and Tiago Splitter (more recently Mirotic and Motiejunas).  From what I've read, both were very good in international professional leagues and had reputations as very good players.  Why do such players fall to the end of the first round?  Is it just their age and questions about whether they'll come over?  

Getting a proven player for 5-6 years ought to be better than getting a very young but totally unproven guy who might fall out of the league in a year, and you have to think these guys would commit to come over for good money if they were drafted higher.  If you're a lottery team in the midst of rebuilding anyway, is it such a big deal if you have to wait a season or two before you get them? 

I suppose maybe it's because a lot of GMs for bad teams are desperate to make moves that will improve the team right away, for the sake of keeping their job.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 12:04:35 PM by PosImpos »
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