Latest Simmon's Article on Celts

[PosImpos]

one thing about simmons he does have sources, maybe his has caught whiff a possible blow it up trade by danny involving paul? and he wants to pressure ainge into making one last run instead.

Neh, Simmons just like playing with the trade machine. 

for the most part, though, Simmons has a pretty good handle on how NBA players ought to be valued in trades -- he had a great article last season breaking down most of the players in the league in terms of their "coin" value (penny, nickel, dime, quarter, etc).

[Celtics4ever]

There is a reason Simmons is a sports writer and not a GM.  No one would want him as a GM perhaps?  Hindsight is 20/20 folks.   It is easy to rip Ainge now but he did get us a title in 08.

[dlpin]

evidence number 1000 in the case of "why I am glad Ainge is the GM and not some of the so called experts."

Ainge won a title and got to another finals without ever having a top draft pick or cap space (best pick was the Jeff Green number 5 in a very thin draft class). And now he is in position to make a run at two of the best free agents of all time, and if all else fails turn that cap money into draft picks like Presti did.

And as for the whole Presti sucking up in this article:
it took 3 terrible years and three top 4 picks in incredibly loaded drafts to get him where he is AND quite a bit of luck. How good would he be considered if Portland had picked Durant and he ended up picking Oden?

[Master Po]

Danny's 5 year plan from 2003-2008 was nothing more than a moth flittering around a bright light until his old friend McHale got desperate and helped DA out with KG ...of course he was a worse GM than Danny so there yo go.

Danny's one big move, which in fact brought Banner 17 for which I am grateful, wasn't really a 5 year master "plan" that was somehow well thought out and well executed (THINK Raef LeFrenchy and those knees and those millions for example) but rather a hail Mary pass caught by Kevin McHale.

Yeah yeah yeah ...he got Ray Allen and for once Danny actually juggled two balls at once....but Danny hasn't juggled much else in 8 years but a bunch of players who should never been picked up in the first place while the Big Three slowly aged and he did nothing to make a smooth transition for this team except into BLOWING IT UP because he painted himself into a corner.

My two cents

[Eddie20]

He contradicts himself in this poorly written article:

"Or, you could have waited and held your free-agent exceptions for a chance at Kenyon Martin, J.R. Smith or maybe even Aaron Brooks."

"Yeah, because free agents looooooooooooooooove signing with Boston. The last marquee free agent the Celtics signed was Dominique Wilkins in 1994 — "

 "The best free agents don't want any part of Boston, Danny. They want to play in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Texas, Florida, Arizona or California."

So which one is it?

[birdbrady]

So, Simmons has been diddling with Presti, and how he 'owned' Ainge by 'stealing' Perk from him.  Yes, the Perk trade hurt US because it killed our chemistry last year.  But Presti didn't get the better end of the deal either.  It was a lose-lose for both teams.  Presti is stuck with Perk making 8-9M for the next few years while he still hasn't paid Ibaka and Harden yet.  And they are a small market so they have some decisions to make.

Anyways, Simmons' in that hit-piece was just saying that Ainge made "two good moves in 8 years" and they were both from McHale.  Well....what about when...Ainge...heisted another Hall of Famer...from.....SAM PRESTI!!!  What about that Bill?  Here's what YOU said about the Ray trade back in 2007

4:30 p.m. (PT): Thanks to rumors that the Celtics might trade the No. 5 pick, Wally Szczerbiak and Delonte West for a soon-to-be 32-year-old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgeries (Ray Allen), I just spent the last 20 minutes on basketball-reference.com trying to find one great shooting guard who didn't decline significantly in Years 12 through 14 of his NBA career. Here's the list: Reggie Miller. That's it. Also, I just threw up in my mouth and some of it went up the back of my nose.

4:41: Andy Katz reports that Boston agreed to deal the No. 5 pick, Szczerbiak and West for Allen. Not even 10 seconds later, the Sonics take Kevin Durant … the guy I'd been rooting for the Celtics to get since December.

(Hold on, I'm picking my jaw off the ground.)

Unless there's another major move coming -- and Lord, let's hope so -- are we really contending for the title in 2008 or 2009 with Pierce, Jefferson, Allen, Doc Rivers and nine unproven young guys? Are we even winning 47 games? Three seasons from now, if you're watching Doc and Danny Ainge announcing the same TNT game, then you flick channels and see a broken-down Ray Allen jogging around a half-empty TD Banknorth Center at age 34, you'll think of me. I promise you.

And here's the gem right here:

Here's the problem: Allen's draft class was the year before I wrote my first draft diary. His movie ("He Got Game") came out nearly a decade ago. He played at UConn with Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall and Doron Sheffer. This guy is not a spring chicken -- just look at his hairline, for cripes' sake. This feels like Mitch Richmond going to the Bullets for C-Webb all over again. I'm somewhere between "quitting coffee and trying to make it through Day 3" rattled and "waiting for the results of an HIV test" rattled. And you know who's going to suffer? You, the home reader. That's who.

So, for the record...Simmons said Ray Allen = Mitch Richmond, and Jeff Green = CWebb (yes, that very same Jeff Green that he killed Ainge for trading Perkins for)

But, wait! There's more!!!

4:47: Marc Stein sends me an e-mail about the Allen trade that ends, "It could have turned out worse." Great. That's just the celebratory e-mail I was hoping for on draft night: "It could have turned out worse."

...

4:56: Dad calls again: "And by the way, I liked Delonte West. Put that in, too. Terrible. This is just terrible."

4:58: Boston picks Jeff Green for Seattle at No. 5, but Green has to go through the charade of wearing a Celtics hat for the next few minutes because the trade hasn't been officially announced yet. Topps needs to release a special series: "Trading cards of NBA draft picks who had to wear the wrong caps for 15 minutes."

...

6:53: Looks like Boston acquired the 35th pick in the Ray Allen trade, as well. Hmmmmm. I'm feeling a little better about things. I was a 2 out of 10 two hours ago … now I'm a 3 out of 10, and I'll be a 5 out of 10 if they take Big Baby with one of their second-rounders. As for my Dad? Let's call him.

6:53: "I'm still a 0 out of 10," he says.

Well, then.

Let's skip through the rest of the first round: Wilson Chandler to the Knicks (shockingly, Stephen A. loved the pick); Rudy Fernandez to the Blazers (purchased from the Suns, who continue to p--- on their fans by dumping crucial first-rounders for money reasons); Morris Almond to the Jazz (much-needed shooting); Brooks to the Rockets (sleeper No. 2 in the books); Arron Afflalo to Detroit (typically savvy Dumars pick); Tiago Splitter to San Antonio (typically savvy Spurs stash-away pick); Alando Tucker to the Suns (scoring off the bench!); and Petteri Koponen to the Sixers (seriously, can you imagine anyone with that name actually becoming an NBA star?). Also, G-State dealt Jason Richardson to Charlotte for the rights to Brandan Wright, one of those moves that has "the first step in another trade in which G-State gets Yi" written all over it.

One more thing: With the second-rounder obtained from Seattle, my dad and I were on the phone rooting for Big Baby … and when it happened, we both cheered and did the whole "I can't believe we got him at 35!" routine. Sure, it was a minor victory, but when you're a Celtics fan these days, you take what you can get.

So the night we got a Hall of Famer in his prime for a not-so-great lottery pick in a weak draft ALL WHILE trading Wally who was making NEAR MAX MONEY FOR THE NEXT TWO SEASON, drafting Big Baby was a 'minor victory.'

Here's the story: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070629

And btw, for those who want to say that Presi was 'dumping payroll.'  Well, yes.  Sorta.  But Presti was never a fan of Ray, and he wanted to move on without him.  Here's what their sources leaked to Andy Katz the night the trade was made here:

But for all his talent scoring the ball, Allen was a defensive liability. Since his arrival on June 7 as the youngest GM in the NBA, Presti has constantly reiterated his desire to build a foundation based on defense.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2920183

Was it a horrible idea for OKC to get rid of Ray? No.  But what they got for a HOFr in his prime?? Jeff Green, and not even immediate cap relief? Ouch.  Presti got owned by Ainge and no one talks about that.

And the scoreboard still reads Ainge 1 Presti 0.  And Ainge did it without a ping pong ball bouncing his way either.

[minijericho29]

Simmons is one of the biggest clowns on the planet.  He hasn't been funny or interesting since 2003. 

He blames Ainge for passing on DeAndre Jordan? Jordan went 35th!!  That means that EVERY team passed on him and a handful even passed on him twice.  Simmons needs to relax and stop being such a bum-jockey.

[birdbrady]

Danny's 5 year plan from 2003-2008 was nothing more than a moth flittering around a bright light until his old friend McHale got desperate and helped DA out with KG ...of course he was a worse GM than Danny so there yo go.

Danny's one big move, which in fact brought Banner 17 for which I am grateful, wasn't really a 5 year master "plan" that was somehow well thought out and well executed (THINK Raef LeFrenchy and those knees and those millions for example) but rather a hail Mary pass caught by Kevin McHale.

Yeah yeah yeah ...he got Ray Allen and for once Danny actually juggled two balls at once....but Danny hasn't juggled much else in 8 years but a bunch of players who should never been picked up in the first place while the Big Three slowly aged and he did nothing to make a smooth transition for this team except into BLOWING IT UP because he painted himself into a corner.

My two cents

This is ridiculous.

Even Simmons' admitted in his hit piece that if the Celtics didn't get Kevin Garnett, they probably just go out and get Pau Gasol.  By then the Celtics had all the assets.  Did we get fortunate that it was KG? Yea, that won us the title.

But when Ainge took over in 2003, he said 5 years.  And in 5 years the team was a contender, whether it was acquiring KG or Pau.

He didn't fluke into anything.  He never had a ping pong ball bounce his way.  He kept building and building.  And during this, the Celtics only bottomed out one year.  Ainge has been here since 03, and we've missed the playoffs a grand total of two times.

Was LaFrentz bad? Yea, whatever.  You can go down any GMs bad moves.  I made a post earlier, you should read it.  Mitch Kupchak is a top 5 GM in the league and has a laundry list of bad moves, and first round washouts.  Even RC Buford (the best GM in the league) let Hedo Turkoglu get away for absolutely nothing.  That's not how you evaluate GMs.  Just digging up a few bad moves to prove your point.

Ainge got off on the wrong foot with fans and the media because he traded everyone's favorite binky Antoine Walker, and that was just a no-no to 80% of Celtics fans at the time.  He also never traded Paul Pierce despite scores of fans who wanted him traded for Corey Maggette and Stromile Swift 5 times over.

He said he'd have a contender here in 5 years.  He never said championship.  He didn't go Joe Namath and guarantee titles, but he said after five years we'd be a contending team.  We got Garnett and won it all.  But like I said, and even Simmons' said this too in his hit piece -- if they missed out on KG, he'd probably get Gasol because he did a good job building up the assets.  He delivered on his promise, and he never had any real breaks go his way.  Never had a ping pong ball bounce his way.  Kept improving the value of the roster year by year and PRESTO - he had the contending team Celtics fans starved for for years.

[Master Po]

I guess "ridiculous" is anyone who doesn't see it your way....that's a great characteristic to have.

[Evantime34]

My problem with the article is the timing. He is taking stock of how Ainge has done overall during a time when the team is at it's worst. If Ainge does nothing at the deadline then this article would have made more sense. I agree that the plan to store cap space and hope for Deron and Dwight is not the greatest one, but Ainge still has time before the deadline to make some moves that will improve the future.

The fact of the matter is, Simmons has never liked Doc or Danny and enjoys crushing either at any opportunity.

[kgiessler]

Simmons is at the point where the only attention he gets is shock at the ridiculous things he says.  He is the Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian of sports journalism.

Seriously, ignore this clown.  All he does is write for shock value.

[Chris]

one thing about simmons he does have sources, maybe his has caught whiff a possible blow it up trade by danny involving paul? and he wants to pressure ainge into making one last run instead.

Neh, Simmons just like playing with the trade machine. 

for the most part, though, Simmons has a pretty good handle on how NBA players ought to be valued in trades -- he had a great article last season breaking down most of the players in the league in terms of their "coin" value (penny, nickel, dime, quarter, etc).

That's fair.  It doesn't mean his ideas are any better than any member of this site or any other forum though.

He is not working from inside knowledge here (if he were, he would shout it to the heavens), he is just a big NBA fan with a strong opinion, just like all of us are.  It just so happens he is a heck of a writer, which has given him a bit more of a voice.

[dlpin]

Danny's 5 year plan from 2003-2008 was nothing more than a moth flittering around a bright light until his old friend McHale got desperate and helped DA out with KG ...of course he was a worse GM than Danny so there yo go.

Danny's one big move, which in fact brought Banner 17 for which I am grateful, wasn't really a 5 year master "plan" that was somehow well thought out and well executed (THINK Raef LeFrenchy and those knees and those millions for example) but rather a hail Mary pass caught by Kevin McHale.

Yeah yeah yeah ...he got Ray Allen and for once Danny actually juggled two balls at once....but Danny hasn't juggled much else in 8 years but a bunch of players who should never been picked up in the first place while the Big Three slowly aged and he did nothing to make a smooth transition for this team except into BLOWING IT UP because he painted himself into a corner.

My two cents

This whole "Ainge was gifted KG by his friend" is just nonsense by people who didn't like the celtics.

1- The celtics were never the frontrunner for KG. LA was ahead at one point, but they wanted to dump Odom's contract in the process and the wolves wanted both cap relief and young prospects. Chicago was ahead at one point too, but there were questions if they would have enough left over to resign KG if they dealt their young assets. So it wasn't like there was no competition for KG. And unlike what Simmons said, boston's package was clearly better.

2- The celtics only landed KG because they had enough assets to do so. Al Jefferson with the 15th pick was a great catch and the merit is all Ainge's. And when KG said he wouldn't sign with boston because the team wasn't good enough, he went out and got Allen.


Those things are not accidents. The celtics had accumulated enough young prospects and cap relief to land a superstar, and it wasn't just luck that McHale was a former celtic.

If Ainge does the same job going forward of accumulating draft picks, young prospects and cap relief, he will be able to land an all star even if he misses on howard or williams.

[Kuberski1]

Poor article.  Simmons just doesn't have that much time to really think through some of his articles these days, yet his pessimism re the Cs is as deep as ever.  Ainge is without a doubt a better than average GM, and some would say top-tier.  Plus, the McHale references were ridiculous.....

[Master Po]

Tired of you smartalics using the word ridiculous in a demeaning manner. I didn't call you out or call you something. Poor behavior...I hope Forum Mods call you out on it

This whole "Ainge was gifted KG by his friend" is just nonsense by people who didn't like the celtics.

I have been watching and the Celtics before you ever born and maybe your daddy depending on your age...so blow it out your nose with that demeaning talk to me about who likes the celtics...and calling someone's opinion ridiculous.