IP Ranks The Pick-Two Teams By Divison (All Divisions Are Up)

[Redz]

Good lord IP...a monumental effort by you

Happy with the pistons report.  They are indeed a work in progress, but a solid improvement over the current team.

[KCattheStripe]

SOUTHEAST

Miami Heat

PG - Steve Nash, Shaun Livingston
SG - Dwyane Wade, Dahntay Jones
SF - Danny Granger, James Jones
PF - Derrick Favors, Udonis Haslem, Anthony Tolliver, Ben Wallace
C  - Marcin Gortat, Timofey Mozgov, Kevin Seraphin

Positive Thoughts: Steve Nash cried his Canadian tears the day K-Cat traded LeBron to Phoenix. I shed a hockey stick or two myself, it’s a fitting way for Nash and his Skelator face and weird, bird-like eyes and foppish haircut to finish out his career. The talent 1-5 is the best in the league, and the bench is populated by effective, proven players. The pieces seem to fit well, and complement each other on the whole as well. Good passing from Nash, Wade. Scoring from Nash, Wade, Granger, and defense from...well…defense. The bench has defense. The 1-2 punch of Gortat/Mozgov at the 5 should be pretty much everything anyone could want out of a center rotation.

Negative Thoughts: Elite defense ain’t happenin, an injury to Nash (he’s old, but apparently made of rubber), or Wade (he’s not made of rubber) submarines this team into mediocrity. Not lottery, but like..fringe playoff.  Not a ton of defense in the starting lineup.

Immediate Success: Title contender this season. Possible favorites.

Long-Term Success: Not as good as you may think. Key players (Nash, Haslem, Livingston are all candidates to be out of the league in a year or two) are going to fall off or leave in the next 2-3 years. Favors and Mozgov are the players most likely to make big steps forward, but none of it will likely compensate for the loss of Nash.

Pick-Two Success: They started out as title favorites with three all-nba caliber players, and ended up as title contenders, with 2 all-nba caliber players. Plus, they traded LeBron so its okay to like Dwyane Wade again.

Defense? What's that?

[indeedproceed]

Will do two more tomorrow, maybe. I encourage everyone to do their own rankings w/explanations. Its fun, and good epilogue for the draft.

Also remember, if the Narwhals aren't first, you're banned.

And that's a promise.

[Edgar]

[Rondo2287]

Will do two more tomorrow, maybe. I encourage everyone to do their own rankings w/explanations. Its fun, and good epilogue for the draft.

Also remember, if the Narwhals aren't first, you're banned.

And that's a promise.

haha oh edgar, this made me laugh

[slamtheking]

CENTRAL DIVISION

Cleveland Cavaliers

PG - Kyrie Irving, Chauncey Billups, Earl Watson
SG - Landry Fields, George Hill, Sam Young
SF - Luol Deng, Jeff Green
PF - Kris Humphries, Brandon Bass, Matt Bonner
C  - Andrew Bynum, Nenad Krstic

Positive Thoughts: Irving, Deng, and Bynum all seem to be long-term cornerstones with potential for any one of (or even scarier) or all three of them to continue to improve into a legitimate squad of superstars. The depth provided by Hill, Young, Green, and Bass long-term has the makings of one of if not the best future second units going forward. There is a good symmetry here (which, if you happen to read all of these is like…a super-serious thing for me) with the potential for deadly scoring (Irving, Deng, Bynum are all potentially 20 ppg scorers), efficient ball-movement (Irving, Fields, Deng are all proficient (Irving) to elite (Fields, Deng) passers for their respective positions), rebounding (Bynum, Humphries, Deng, Fields are all among the best statistically at their positions for acquiring boards), and depth.

Negative Thoughts: Fields and Humphries are both below-average starters for their positions. And, to build further upon that, I worry that Fields is more of a system player (in the Knicks offense he’s asked to little and less aside from moving the ball on the Amar’e or Anthony, and in the defense he gets lauded as one of the few effective guys for the Knicks, but they’re the D’Antoni Knicks. Nobody plays good defense aside from Tyson Chandler, as we found out when Fields tried to guard Ray Allen last spring). While Hill, Young, Bass, Bonner, and Krstic are all important pieces going forward, there is no guarantee that Billups will be back next season, or that he will be anywhere near as effective as he was last year or the year before. He was playing well this past season, but age takes its toll, and he didn’t seem encouraged to be playing for the Clippers prior to them acquiring Chris Paul, which leads me to believe that he’s not going to be encouraged to be playing for the Cavaliers, especially in a reserve situation. Krstic may want to come back, but who knows if he will, and I’ll believe that Jeff Green will be okay once he actually plays some basketball. On top of that two starters (Deng, Bynum) have both missed significant time in the last few years, with Bynum being a legitimate candidate for ‘most likely to get hurt right when you need him most’, right next to Andrew Bogut and Dwyane Wade. On paper the team looks elite, but there are a lot of things that need to go right for them that could easily go very wrong.

Immediate success: Take the division, 3-4 seed, dependant on regular season record. Likely 1st or second round exit.

Long-term success: Possible contender as soon as next season, lock-contender within 3 yrs. Bynum biggest question mark.

Pick-2 Success: I have a hard time imagining how they could’ve done better with the Cavs. They started out without a superstar, and not only assembled a quality young team around quality young talent, they managed to assemble a quality team period, and as close to a surefire future contender as you can get when you’re relying on Andrew Bynum as a future cornerstone.

Chicago Bulls

PG - Derek Rose, Jimmer Fredette, Eric Maynor
SG - Evan Turner, E'twaun Moore
SF - Omri Casspi, Al-Farouq Aminu
PF - Lamar Odom, JJ Hickson, Jon Leuer
C  - JaVale McGee, Jason Thompson, Aaron Gray

Positive Thoughts: I love the guard rotation of Rose/Turner/Fredette/Maynor. Good talent now, good talent going forward. If JaVale McGee can manage to stop being such a punk, the Noah/McGee trade might look pretty good in hindsight. Lots of athleticism off the bench and size. Derrick Rose is awesome.

Negative Thoughts: 2 of the 5 starters (Casspi, Odom) have no right being starters in 2012. Both are playing like hot garbage. Too many headcases for Derrick Rose’s liking I bet too (McGee, Odom, Hickson). Even IF everything goes right, and IF McGee, Turner, and Aminu all become what people hope they will, you’re still out a true second scorer next to Rose. And, as Boozer/Deng have proven, he kinda needs that.

Immediate Success: I have a really hard time thinking that Derrick Rose misses the playoffs because aside from Kobe, and Durant, he might be the guy whose drive and passion I admire most in the non-Garnett league. I like to think they’d find a way, but I would not be surprised if they did not, esp with the talent re-distribution and ensuing parity.

Long-Term Success: If Aminu, Turner, and McGee all turn into what people think they might, and Casspi gets to mid-2000’s Nocioni levels, this is a contender.

Pick-Two Success: Took a contender and took them out of contention, but the real Bulls have 4 legitimate All-Star caliber players. Replicating them would’ve been impossible.

Detroit Pistons

PG - Brandon Knight, Jarrett Jack
SG - Gerald Henderson, Gary Neal
SF - Grant Hill, Fransisco Garcia, Martell Webster, Jan Vesely
PF - Greg Monroe, Channing Frye, DJ White
C  - DeMarcus Cousins, Larry Sanders

Positive Thoughts: Lots of talent in the starting 5. Henderson, Monroe, Cousins all look like they might be All-stars in a year or three, with Knight showing signs of being special. There are a total of 7 top-10 picks in the 12-man rotation. That’s a lot of talent there.

Negative Thoughts: Everyone in the starting 5 is a productive and justifiable NBA starter. Nobody in the starting 5 plays for a playoff team, or has, excepting Grant Hill. The bench isn’t exactly littered with winners either. I know its counter-intuitive to think of that as a strike against, but I’m writing this, so BACK OFF! I love Greg Monroe, hate DeMarcus Cousins, and together I think you’re realizing the potential of neither. I worry about the pecking order, and the consequences of not having an established scoring priorities list.

Immediate Success: Henderson and Monroe both look to be turning the corner into stardom. Cousins is a head-case, and Knight isn’t a true PG. All this equals a roller-coaster right that ends just outside the playoffs.

Long-term Success: Five scariest words for a basketball fan: “It all relies on Cousins.” IF a solid pecking order can be established and Monroe/Cousins learn to coexist, IF Knight becomes a true PG, IF this year isn’t an aberration, and IF they can replace Hill with one of Vesely or Webster, this team will rival any other team in the East. Any team, from the Heat to the Cavs to the Knicks. Lots of Ifs.

Pick-Two Success: Detroit right now is a team full of misfit toys and malcontents. This Detroit team is a huge talent upgrade, and a fit upgrade too, despite the Cousins/Monroe dilemma.  

Indiana Pacers

PG - Brandon Jennings, JJ Barea, Gilbert Arenas
SG - Paul George, Daequan Cook
SF - Wilson Chandler, Mickael Pietrus
PF - Derrick Williams, Charlie Villanueva, Jason Maxiell
C  - Tyson Chandler, Bismack Biyombo, Kwame Brown

Positive Thoughts: I think that a team centered around Jennings/Paul George/Wilson Chandler/Derrick Williams/Tyson Chandler is a team that should be going places, dependent on Paul George’s advancement. Barea, Pietrus, Cook, Maxiell, and Brown are all quality proven depth. Biyombo could be the game-changer here, becoming either a legit 5 or a legit 4, or both. If Derrick Williams. High-level defenders at 1,2,3, and 5, with Biyombo’s development being the only thing stopping them from being the #1 defensive team in the league.

Negative Thoughts: Arenas is cooked, Jennings is not a consistent distributor, and Charlie Villanueva has the (misspelled) word ‘Villan’ in his last name, and Derrick Williams is still figuring it out. On top of that, Biyombo is so raw the FDA is advising to wait 2-3 years before serving him to the public. There is not one elite passer on this entire team.

Immediate Success: I have no idea. I think I underrate Brandon Jennings and Wilson Chandler, but I think also that this team is going to have a terribly hard time scoring because of atrocious ball-movement. Despite all the hype, I still have no idea what Paul George is other than ‘good’ and ‘kinda hits shots, sometimes’. I bet he doesn’t know either. They’re right there with Chicago battling for the 8th seed.

Long-term Success: See ‘immediate success’. For real long-term success, 3 guys need to reach their alleged ceilings, or close to it: Paul George needs to become an every-night lockdown defender who can create his own shot once and a while. Think Tay Prince, 2004. Derrick Williams needs to be able to create his own shot at will, as a kind of Melo/Millsap hybrid on offense,  and Biyombo needs to develop into a viable defensive force at least as good as Birdman in his prime every night. If all those things happen, this team looks like it’ll be a 3-4 seed for a long time, but those things are more unlikely to happen than they are likely.

Pick-Two Success: This is what happens when you take a team you like, and take a binky to build around. SO decided that he wanted the Pacers, and he wanted Paul George. The problem with the Pacers is that they don’t rely on one guy to carry the burden every night, with a huge dropoff in talent after that. They rely on 5 ‘pretty good’ guys (Hibbert, West, Granger, George, Collison) to bring it everynight, with a slight dropoff in talent to 2 more rotation guys (Hill, Hansbrough). Its really freakin hard to replicate that in this format. The current Pacers are a half-game out of third place in the East, so I’m going to say the Pick-Two Pacers got worse, with the addition that StartOrien picked one of the hardest (if not THE hardest) teams to improve, and he should never have paid someone to take Jeremy Lin off his hands.

Central Division, This Year:
Cavs
Bulls
Pacers
Pistons

Central Division, Going Forward:
Cavs
Pistons
Pacers
Bulls

Pick-Two Success:
Cavs (took the easy route)
Pistons
Pacers
Bulls

I can understand the Cleveland love -- good team now and with room to grow.  have to disagree with the Bulls going forward though.  they have as much reason to improve as Cleveland if not more. 

[indeedproceed]

I can understand the Cleveland love -- good team now and with room to grow.  have to disagree with the Bulls going forward though.  they have as much reason to improve as Cleveland if not more.

Than I have to ask, who do you think are your top-tier prospects, and how high do you think they can go in the next 2-3 years? 4-7 years?

[slamtheking]

I can understand the Cleveland love -- good team now and with room to grow.  have to disagree with the Bulls going forward though.  they have as much reason to improve as Cleveland if not more.

Than I have to ask, who do you think are your top-tier prospects, and how high do you think they can go in the next 2-3 years? 4-7 years?

I think Turner and Mcgee are obviously my top 2 prospects.  I think Mcgee, with the right guidance/motivation, could put up 18/10 regularly, maybe more.  Turner, if he continues his current improvement, could be good for 18-20 points a night himself.  That's a pretty decent and young trio including Rose. 

Include Jimmer and Maynor as solid young backcourt prospects that figure to at least become good rotation players.  Even E'twaun has shown signs of being decent 4th guard off the bench. 

The frontcourt has Thompson and Hickson as good young bench players.  Hickson may not have much improvement left but I think Thompson does.  Leuer could still turn out to be a pretty decent 4th/5th big off the bench.

Although Casspi and Odom haven't had good years this year, neither is playing with Rose.  I think playing alongside Rose who commands so much attention from Defenses would help both their games.

If, as you've mentioned, this isn't a playoff team, I'm looking at a lottery pick in a loaded draft.  I'll have no problem picking up a starting-quality SF or SG at that point.  Put Beal or Rivers in as SG and move Turner to SF if I need to.  that line-up will go far in both the 2-3 year window and the 4-7 year window.

that's how I see it anyway.

[indeedproceed]

I can understand the Cleveland love -- good team now and with room to grow.  have to disagree with the Bulls going forward though.  they have as much reason to improve as Cleveland if not more.

Than I have to ask, who do you think are your top-tier prospects, and how high do you think they can go in the next 2-3 years? 4-7 years?

I think Turner and Mcgee are obviously my top 2 prospects.  I think Mcgee, with the right guidance/motivation, could put up 18/10 regularly, maybe more.  Turner, if he continues his current improvement, could be good for 18-20 points a night himself.  That's a pretty decent and young trio including Rose. 

Include Jimmer and Maynor as solid young backcourt prospects that figure to at least become good rotation players.  Even E'twaun has shown signs of being decent 4th guard off the bench. 

The frontcourt has Thompson and Hickson as good young bench players.  Hickson may not have much improvement left but I think Thompson does.  Leuer could still turn out to be a pretty decent 4th/5th big off the bench.

Although Casspi and Odom haven't had good years this year, neither is playing with Rose.  I think playing alongside Rose who commands so much attention from Defenses would help both their games.

If, as you've mentioned, this isn't a playoff team, I'm looking at a lottery pick in a loaded draft.  I'll have no problem picking up a starting-quality SF or SG at that point.  Put Beal or Rivers in as SG and move Turner to SF if I need to.  that line-up will go far in both the 2-3 year window and the 4-7 year window.

that's how I see it anyway.

Ah, well in that case, take another gander at the write-up, I think we agree on a lot more than you might believe.

Chicago Bulls

PG - Derek Rose, Jimmer Fredette, Eric Maynor
SG - Evan Turner, E'twaun Moore
SF - Omri Casspi, Al-Farouq Aminu
PF - Lamar Odom, JJ Hickson, Jon Leuer
C  - JaVale McGee, Jason Thompson, Aaron Gray

Positive Thoughts: I love the guard rotation of Rose/Turner/Fredette/Maynor. Good talent now, good talent going forward. If JaVale McGee can manage to stop being such a punk, the Noah/McGee trade might look pretty good in hindsight. Lots of athleticism off the bench and size. Derrick Rose is awesome.

Negative Thoughts: 2 of the 5 starters (Casspi, Odom) have no right being starters in 2012. Both are playing like hot garbage. Too many headcases for Derrick Rose’s liking I bet too (McGee, Odom, Hickson). Even IF everything goes right, and IF McGee, Turner, and Aminu all become what people hope they will, you’re still out a true second scorer next to Rose. And, as Boozer/Deng have proven, he kinda needs that.

Immediate Success: I have a really hard time thinking that Derrick Rose misses the playoffs because aside from Kobe, and Durant, he might be the guy whose drive and passion I admire most in the non-Garnett league. I like to think they’d find a way, but I would not be surprised if they did not, esp with the talent re-distribution and ensuing parity.

Long-Term Success: If Aminu, Turner, and McGee all turn into what people think they might, and Casspi gets to mid-2000’s Nocioni levels, this is a contender.

Pick-Two Success: Took a contender and took them out of contention, but the real Bulls have 4 legitimate All-Star caliber players. Replicating them would’ve been impossible.

The only places I think we really disagree are that Casspi and Odom might be viable players this year, or that Hickson has any real value as a rotation player.

[indeedproceed]

Northwest Conference is up.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53770.msg1152214#msg1152214

[ChampKind]

WAC

Denver Nuggets

PG - Ty Lawson, Devin Harris, Eric Bledsoe
SG - Arron Afflalo, Ben Gordon, CJ Miles
SF - Jason Richardson, John Salmons
PF - Al Horford, Josh McRoberts
C  - Nene, Nikola Pekovic, Greg Oden

Positive Thoughts: Hey, it’s a Champkind team; its got Al Horford, Ty Lawson (did you patent Ty Lawson?), and a solid supporting cast. There are no stars on this team but at the same time, there aren’t really any weak-spots, other than the ones created by injuries this season. Healthy, probably the best bigs rotation in terms of depth and consistency in the league. Lots of defense. Lots of Steve Nash’s wife stealing. Lots of naked pictures leaked on twitter. Lots of argyle sweatervests with white t-shirts underneath it, and I’m imagining, the pre-requisite collection of ‘Boy Meets World’ season DVD sets to go with them. I like it.

Negative Thoughts: Steve Nash did NOTHING to you, Jason Richardson. He passed you the ball. So sue him, he wanted to get you some buckets. Jeez.

Also, this is a team starting Josh McRoberts, playing Jason Richardson out of position, and with absolutely no depth at the 4 unless Pekovic plays out of position. On top of that, with Oden out the team is only going to suit up 3 frontcourt players. Plus, Nene is having a down year, one hopes its not a prophetic one.

Immediate Success: Not a whole lot. For this team to go anywhere, they need to be unrelenting in their top to bottom ‘just above average’ consistency at every position. They have above average starters, above average backups (when measured against backups). With Horford out, Salmons having a really bad year (building upon another bad year last year), and Oden out for the duration, they’re going to run the legitimate risk of running Nene and pekovic into the ground.

Long-Term Success: When this team gets healthy, they’re going to be very dangerous. Most of the core is still young (Lawson, Afflalo, Bledsoe, Horford, Pekovic, SWEATERVEST, etc…), and I’m not even counting Oden. Could be a 2nd tier contender in as little as a year. Doesn’t have the star-power to be a favorite.

Pick-Two Success: Basically Champ took the opportunity to take a step back this year in order to take a huge step forward next year. Would he have been better off taking the best healthy player in the 1st (would have been one of Harden/Ibaka/Deng)? I really don’t know. I think he could’ve matched the Nuggets current roster with such a pick, but I also think that going forward he made the right choice to make the team better faster.

Awesome, as usual, IP. I guess I probably should have put together an actual starting lineup at some point:

PG: Lawson/Harris/Bledsoe
SG: Afflalo/Gordon/Salmons
SF: Miles/Richardson/Salmons
PF: Horford/McRoberts
C: Nene/Pekovic/Oden

Yeah, depth at the 4 with Horford out is an...issue. I don't think there's anyway to slide Pekovic alongside Nene, but it would be pretty outstanding to see him Serbian cross-check Chris Bosh four rows deep into the baseline stands.

The goal was to flip J-Rich/Gordon at some point, and I could have brought in Beasley to take over at the 3 via trade, but I am a lazy, lazy man. Most importantly, I got the guys I love (Lawson, Pekovic, McBob), some guys I like (Afflalo, Horford, Nene), and one guy I hate for reasons I can't really explain (Salmons).

Also important? I improved on last year's abortion of a Pick 2 team. But, to be fair, I don't think I could have done worse than my 5 PG lineup that year.

[slamtheking]

I can understand the Cleveland love -- good team now and with room to grow.  have to disagree with the Bulls going forward though.  they have as much reason to improve as Cleveland if not more.

Than I have to ask, who do you think are your top-tier prospects, and how high do you think they can go in the next 2-3 years? 4-7 years?

I think Turner and Mcgee are obviously my top 2 prospects.  I think Mcgee, with the right guidance/motivation, could put up 18/10 regularly, maybe more.  Turner, if he continues his current improvement, could be good for 18-20 points a night himself.  That's a pretty decent and young trio including Rose. 

Include Jimmer and Maynor as solid young backcourt prospects that figure to at least become good rotation players.  Even E'twaun has shown signs of being decent 4th guard off the bench. 

The frontcourt has Thompson and Hickson as good young bench players.  Hickson may not have much improvement left but I think Thompson does.  Leuer could still turn out to be a pretty decent 4th/5th big off the bench.

Although Casspi and Odom haven't had good years this year, neither is playing with Rose.  I think playing alongside Rose who commands so much attention from Defenses would help both their games.

If, as you've mentioned, this isn't a playoff team, I'm looking at a lottery pick in a loaded draft.  I'll have no problem picking up a starting-quality SF or SG at that point.  Put Beal or Rivers in as SG and move Turner to SF if I need to.  that line-up will go far in both the 2-3 year window and the 4-7 year window.

that's how I see it anyway.

Ah, well in that case, take another gander at the write-up, I think we agree on a lot more than you might believe.

Chicago Bulls

PG - Derek Rose, Jimmer Fredette, Eric Maynor
SG - Evan Turner, E'twaun Moore
SF - Omri Casspi, Al-Farouq Aminu
PF - Lamar Odom, JJ Hickson, Jon Leuer
C  - JaVale McGee, Jason Thompson, Aaron Gray

Positive Thoughts: I love the guard rotation of Rose/Turner/Fredette/Maynor. Good talent now, good talent going forward. If JaVale McGee can manage to stop being such a punk, the Noah/McGee trade might look pretty good in hindsight. Lots of athleticism off the bench and size. Derrick Rose is awesome.

Negative Thoughts: 2 of the 5 starters (Casspi, Odom) have no right being starters in 2012. Both are playing like hot garbage. Too many headcases for Derrick Rose’s liking I bet too (McGee, Odom, Hickson). Even IF everything goes right, and IF McGee, Turner, and Aminu all become what people hope they will, you’re still out a true second scorer next to Rose. And, as Boozer/Deng have proven, he kinda needs that.

Immediate Success: I have a really hard time thinking that Derrick Rose misses the playoffs because aside from Kobe, and Durant, he might be the guy whose drive and passion I admire most in the non-Garnett league. I like to think they’d find a way, but I would not be surprised if they did not, esp with the talent re-distribution and ensuing parity.

Long-Term Success: If Aminu, Turner, and McGee all turn into what people think they might, and Casspi gets to mid-2000’s Nocioni levels, this is a contender.

Pick-Two Success: Took a contender and took them out of contention, but the real Bulls have 4 legitimate All-Star caliber players. Replicating them would’ve been impossible.

The only places I think we really disagree are that Casspi and Odom might be viable players this year, or that Hickson has any real value as a rotation player.

Your write-up was fine.  no real argument there.  it was the future assessment where I thought you deviated from your comments and rated the team too low.  of the 4 teams in the division, I only see Cleveland as competition in the future. 

[justin_bobo]

Just a random idea, you guys ever consider doing a mock draft after the season to add on to the pick 2 teams? Someone could do the lottery, then draft the same way we've been drafting. Could fill major holes in some up and coming teams.

(Yes I'm proposing this because I have a lottery team haha)

[indeedproceed]

Pacific Division is up.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=53770.msg1152215#msg1152215

[Merovech]

First, I'd like to mention how these write-ups are not only informative, but also hilarious!  Great work.

Long-Term Success:  Perrenial playoff team, maybe a fringe contender, maybe not. Depends who plays the 2, and if one of Buddinger, Patterson, or Splitter really makes a leap forward, instead of a small step.

I'm pretty hopeful that I can get a few good/great players out of Splitter, Patterson, Buddinger, and Wright to complement Westbrook and Anderson, and if so, watch out 2014!  Also, I'm signing Rasheed Wallace (he didn't get picked, right?) to a one-year max contract to make sure I don't accidently kill Splitter.  In all seriousness though, with the exception of our disagreement about Carter being a solid player, which doesn't matter because he's barely going to be around in two years, and almost certainy not in three, I totally agree with you.