why does avery bradley suck so much?

[Roy H.]

In terms of points allowed per possession, Bradley ranks 20th in the entire NBA (at any position).  He is #3 in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession in isolation situations.  Overall, opponents have shot 30.2% against him, and 1 in 10 opponents' possessions against Bradley results in a turnover.

He's elite.

No he is not and that is blatant homer talk remiscent of Tommy H.

While I will concede that 48 stats are hoky. Westbrook did not shoot 30% last night.  Did he?  Neither did Irving?   He is elite as long as he is not playing the elite!

We don't hear rumors about other teams begging for Bradley do we?   That ought to speak volumes to folks.

This is the first time I've heard Synergy Sports -- i.e., the best scouting software in the world, employed by numerous NBA franchises, and universally respected for their meticulous methodology -- as the equivalent of Tommy Heinsohn.  

[kozlodoev]

In terms of points allowed per possession, Bradley ranks 20th in the entire NBA (at any position).  He is #3 in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession in isolation situations.  Overall, opponents have shot 30.2% against him, and 1 in 10 opponents' possessions against Bradley results in a turnover.

He's elite.

No he is not and that is blatant homer talk remiscent of Tommy H.

While I will concede that 48 stats are hoky. Westbrook did not shoot 30% last night.  Did he?  Neither did Irving?   He is elite as long as he is not playing the elite!

We don't hear rumors about other teams begging for Bradley do we?   That ought to speak volumes to folks.

This is the first time I've heard Synergy Sports -- i.e., the best scouting software in the world, employed by numerous NBA franchises, and universally respected for their meticulous methodology -- as the equivalent of Tommy Heinsohn.  

Hey, Tommy is universally respected for his meticulous homerism

[kgiessler]

I am a big detractor and even I think he had a decent offensive game last night.

He did not stop Derrick Rose.   Rose had 25 points that game.  He didn't play in the others.  Rondo also played that game.  A few stops does not mean he contained him.   Derrick Rose is an elite PG.

For the record opponents  per 48 against Bradley are averaging 13.1 PER, 17.7 points and 7.5 APG  with 4.2 TO's.   He is simply not as lockdown as some think he is folks.   He is a good defender but above average guards have torched him.  He does better defending SG's.  Please refer to this page for reference.


http://www.82games.com/1112/11BOS2.HTM

In terms of points allowed per possession, Bradley ranks 20th in the entire NBA (at any position).  He is #3 in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession in isolation situations.  Overall, opponents have shot 30.2% against him, and 1 in 10 opponents' possessions against Bradley results in a turnover.

He's elite. 

Nice find.

[mmmmm]

n terms of points allowed per possession, Bradley ranks 20th in the entire NBA (at any position).  He is #3 in the entire NBA in points allowed per possession in isolation situations.  Overall, opponents have shot 30.2% against him, and 1 in 10 opponents' possessions against Bradley results in a turnover.

He's elite.

No he is not and that is blatant homer talk remiscent of Tommy H.

While I will concede that 48 stats are hoky. Westbrook did not shoot 30% last night.  Did he?  Neither did Irving?   He is elite as long as he is not playing the elite!

We don't hear rumors about other teams begging for Bradley do we?   That ought to speak volumes to folks.

Well, as nickagneta pointed out, Westbrook shot 35%.

More important than 'shutting down his man' is the overall effect that Bradley has on an offense.  The press coverage chews up a lot of shot clock.  This shortens the time the other team has to execute plays.  When you have a height-challenged defense like we fielded, that's important because it shortens the time the offense has to execute switches to setup a mismatch.

The starting unit we used (Bradley, Ray, Pietrus, Pierce & KG) was on the floor last night for 20.47 minutes.  (Westbrook was on the floor for 19 of those minutes) Their efficiency numbers were:

Points for: 47
Possessions for: 44
Offensive Rating: 106.8
Points against: 40
Possessions against: 45
Defensive Rating: 88.9  <---  !

Not too shabby.

Sadly, our bench got taken to the woodshed.

[Celtics4ever]

11 for 24 is not 35% folks.  It is more like 46%.  How the heck do you get 35% can I get one of those calculators?

http://boston.stats.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2012022225&home=25&vis=2&final=true

Please check the facts.  1 for 2 from 3P land is 50% too.  I suppose some here will say that is 35%.

[Roy H.]

11 for 24 is not 35% folks.  It is more like 46%.  How the heck do you get 35% can I get one of those calculators?

http://boston.stats.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2012022225&home=25&vis=2&final=true

Please check the facts.  1 for 2 from 3P land is 50% too.  I suppose some here will say that is 35%.

Bradley didn't cover Westbrook every minute he was in the game, though.

According to Fafnir (who presumably looked at the game log), Westbrook shot 6-for-17 when Bradley was checked into the game.  That's 35.3%.  Even that's not necessarily an adequate way to look at it, though, because not every basket that Westbrook scores is the fault of Bradley.

I appreciate that you don't like Bradley, man, but there's no reason for the sarcasm or the insulting of others' intelligence, especially when you're the one who is overlooking something that is pretty obvious.  Don't be blinded by your dislike.

[mmmmm]

11 for 24 is not 35% folks.  It is more like 46%.  How the heck do you get 35% can I get one of those calculators?

http://boston.stats.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2012022225&home=25&vis=2&final=true

Please check the facts.  1 for 2 from 3P land is 50% too.  I suppose some here will say that is 35%.

The 35% comes from what Westbrook shot while Avery was on the floor (6 of 17, according to Fafnir's breakdown).

[mmmmm]

Even that's not necessarily an adequate way to look at it, though, because not every basket that Westbrook scores is the fault of Bradley.

This^ is an important point about all players when trying to assess defense. 

That's why I prefer to look at the +/- numbers and in particular how the whole 5-man units are performing.  After all, who individually scores or doesn't score is less important than whether the _team_ scores or doesn't score.

[Roy H.]

Even that's not necessarily an adequate way to look at it, though, because not every basket that Westbrook scores is the fault of Bradley.

This^ is an important point about all players when trying to assess defense. 

That's why I prefer to look at the +/- numbers and in particular how the whole 5-man units are performing.  After all, who individually scores or doesn't score is less important than whether the _team_ scores or doesn't score.

It's one of the reasons I like Synergy.  Here's their methodology:

How we select the player - Synergy tracks the initial on ball defender for many playtypes. For example, an offensive player is in Isolation and blows by his defender (player A) and gets to the rim. A help defender (player B) rotates over to try and contest the shot. We attribute the defensive play to Player A, as he was the person was initially beaten on the play.

What happened to the other play types? - We do not attach an individual defender on offensive rebounds, cuts or transition plays as these are team defense concepts and fault/credit usually cannot be attributed to one person.

They really do try to look at plays on an individualized basis and assign blame where it's due.

[Celtics4ever]

No I would agree with that.  Bradley is not responsible for all his buckets.   But surely you have to admit there were times when Bradley got beat off the dribble just as he did vs. Irving.

Cook had 17 even if Bradley was covering him at times and he did and Westbrook had 31.  We got ate up in the backcourt.  Avery was +3  Westbrook was +11.

One good on the ball defender does not win games.   They shot 47% as a team.  They scored over 100 points.   That one good ball defender didn't help us win at all.  Go ahead and think it does but most of the Hall of Famers were offensive guys.   I think elite defensive players are rarely truly thought of the elite.   I think of Bill Russell and Jordan.  Bradley isn't in this class.  He is more of the Bobby Jones type.  A good defender that can score some points but not a star.

People thought Bobby Jones was a great defender but really he did not win many titles or even come close to stopping the C's big men.  The same will be true of Bradley.  Defensive wins is the old saying but a good offensive player will usually toast a good defensive player.

To call him elite is so funny I almost fell out of my chair laughing.  I am diehard C fan not a troll.  I watched the game with a friend of mine who is not and he thought the five assists to 3 turnovers was a joke from a PG.  I concur that Avery is a too small of SG who doesn't have a great shot but he did shoot better last night but a lot of his buckets were dunks.  

But his passing is not even remotely indicative of a good PG.

It's one of the reasons I like Synergy.

It is still software.  We have seen many computer selected 1 and 2 teams and the computers do not always get it right and one side is blown out.   Software is limited by it's programming.

We got blown out early in that game.   That one good on the ball defender did make much of a difference....

[Carhole]

But surely you have to admit there were times when Bradley got beat off the dribble just as he did vs. Irving.

I have seen multiple people mention him getting beat, all I can say is that it is impossible to play up and into nba level point guards and not get beat on occasion. That is why no one else does it. Defensively Bradley is putting himself in crazy difficult situations playing that way but he is also helping the rest of the defense by stifling the initiating of the offense.

Avery is a nice young talent. Never will be a pg. But he seems to have worked/gotten more comfortable with his J over the last two games and he plays hard. He is definitely still learning the game and I think it is also obvious he does not have the bball iq to be a star/great.

But what is wrong with him turning into a tony allen type of player?

If you really can't appreciate the type of defense bradley played on westbrook last night you possess a huge bias and will never accept anything about his game.

He was ultra-aggressive with potentially the best pg athlete in the entire NBA and more then held his own. Got beat a couple times for hoops but also got beat regained position and blocked two of westbrooks drives (pinning him once and swatting the other out of bounds)

What do people want from the kid?

[LooseCannon]

What do people want from the kid?

I'm guessing they want the black Jeremy Lin.

[pearljammer10]

the world may never know.

[bostonpatriot]

Avery is a nice young talent. Never will be a pg.

Yeps. He needs to defend PGs but he's a SG - a mediocre one - offensively.

It's one of the reasons I like Synergy.

It is still software.  We have seen many computer selected 1 and 2 teams and the computers do not always get it right and one side is blown out.   Software is limited by it's programming.

We got blown out early in that game.   That one good on the ball defender did make much of a difference....

It's not a computer. It's people watching film and charting the plays.

[Kuberski1]

Watched the replay last night.  Clearly AB's defense of Westbrook was very good - the numbers cited above bear this out.  His offense is now passable, as his jumper has come around, and he is a bit more in the flow of the offense.  He should be considered a solid player in a rotation.