Afraid to blame the Coach..?

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Doc should bring Ray Allen and Jermaine Oneal off the bench

I agree, Ray is now a specialist...and often a defensive liability..JO can play strong..but not for long.....and not on both ends..! More combos with Steamer, JJJ, wilcox till we see who compliments who best..! Steamer needs to play with rondo, and doc needs to tell them the age old.."Reward the big man" steamer has shown good decision making, passing, setting picks, rolling, but NOT getting the roll pass....as most of , as players..you KNOW how that feels after a while.....you pass to your team on the floor, if you don't, you kill your own team, playing with only 3-4 on O is just dumb...and easier to defend..!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I think wilcox with bass, and steam with jjj.....a match of speed and D...steamer has great hands and reflexes...he needs to be brought into the system more until we see his limits..! Ho rolled and dunked last night..i know he got his shot block too...but who hasn't once in a while....as a player..I would go right back to him to fix that asap.....! Jordon never won anything until he brought the whole team with him.....even HE had to learn that..!

[Celts Fan 92]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

maybe if Wilcox was better on defense nd Pietrus did more then chuck up 3's

[the TRUTH]

I haven't posted this yet this season, mainly because I didn't want anyone to accuse me of overreacting to losses.

I said the same thing last year, though, and Doc really does need to shoulder a lot more blame here. He did win a title in '08, but our roster was completely stacked, and we still barely beat the Cavs, and Atlanta took us to 7.

It seems to be generally accepted that Doc is an elite coach, and I don't think that's even close to true. I'm not at all saying that Doc is a bad coach, but it does baffle me that no one ever calls him out. Some fans do, but the media never does. Is that because he treats them so much better than most coaches do?

This is a bit of an oversimplification, but Danny's job is to give Doc the talent, and Doc's job is to make the best use of that talent. Danny has made several mistakes in the draft in the past few years, but that's for another thread. But IMO, there is still enough talent on this roster to win. But for whatever reason, we constantly go through 3-5 minute stretches where we can't get a single good shot. The same exact thing happened last year, and to me, that's all coaching. If we're getting good shots and missing them, then that's on Danny. But if we can't even get a good shot, that's on Doc. It's unbelievable how bad our offense is.

[Inside-Out]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

maybe if Wilcox was better on defense nd Pietrus did more then chuck up 3's

Pietrus is our best wing defender, has hustle, and shoots reasonably well.  That makes him a better option than Ray with the starters at this point.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I haven't posted this yet this season, mainly because I didn't want anyone to accuse me of overreacting to losses.

I said the same thing last year, though, and Doc really does need to shoulder a lot more blame here. He did win a title in '08, but our roster was completely stacked, and we still barely beat the Cavs, and Atlanta took us to 7.

It seems to be generally accepted that Doc is an elite coach, and I don't think that's even close to true. I'm not at all saying that Doc is a bad coach, but it does baffle me that no one ever calls him out. Some fans do, but the media never does. Is that because he treats them so much better than most coaches do?

This is a bit of an oversimplification, but Danny's job is to give Doc the talent, and Doc's job is to make the best use of that talent. Danny has made several mistakes in the draft in the past few years, but that's for another thread. But IMO, there is still enough talent on this roster to win. But for whatever reason, we constantly go through 3-5 minute stretches where we can't get a single good shot. The same exact thing happened last year, and to me, that's all coaching. If we're getting good shots and missing them, then that's on Danny. But if we can't even get a good shot, that's on Doc. It's unbelievable how bad our offense is.

Well, TP for that....I know i get a lot of heat for this too...but as you said....is it not so..? So many are dumbfounded with the things he does nightly...even Tommy gulps at docs things....and tommy knows hoops better than most, he played and coached..and has been in it for many years....but he has no politics.....better to like him for.! Pietrus needs to play more..but play as more than a three...he has to show he can fake the three and use the open lane from it...or drive and dish as we hope someone will roll with him.....that is some things i would do....

[Celts Fan 92]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

maybe if Wilcox was better on defense nd Pietrus did more then chuck up 3's

Pietrus is our best wing defender, has hustle, and shoots reasonably well.  That makes him a better option than Ray with the starters at this point.

ehh idk cuz I can see Ray trynna be a playmaker wit the 2nd unit nd his ball handling is poor

[guava_wrench]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

Why would we start Pierce and Pietrus together when Pietrus is our best option for backup SF due to size/weight? Also, if legs and tempo are a problem, does he have better legs than Ray and what tempo does he really bring? Pietrus is no game-changer.

Wilcox may have earned an expanded role, but it would be nice to have more team success with him starting. It is a bit of a Catch-22 though since he only starts when we are shorthanded.

Fans can always blame coaches. Nets' fans can always say 'change rotations' and reality can't be run twice to test outcomes so they can always say there was some other combination that would have won.

[Inside-Out]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

Why would we start Pierce and Pietrus together when Pietrus is our best option for backup SF due to size/weight? Also, if legs and tempo are a problem, does he have better legs than Ray and what tempo does he really bring? Pietrus is no game-changer.

Wilcox may have earned an expanded role, but it would be nice to have more team success with him starting. It is a bit of a Catch-22 though since he only starts when we are shorthanded.

Fans can always blame coaches. Nets' fans can always say 'change rotations' and reality can't be run twice to test outcomes so they can always say there was some other combination that would have won.

I was thinking that Ray, Pierce, and Pietrus would still be the 3-man wing rotation, just changing the pecking order to reflect the current ability of the players.  Pie would still back up Pierce as SF when Ray comes in.

He brings more defensive intensity and aggressiveness at both ends, with some consistency, which is quite precisely what we need.  From ANYONE.

I'd try to keep a younger, more energetic player on the court next to either Ray or Paul to keep up the intensity and take the defensive load.  Pietrus is the guy we have for that.

It just seems so obvious...

[guava_wrench]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

Why would we start Pierce and Pietrus together when Pietrus is our best option for backup SF due to size/weight? Also, if legs and tempo are a problem, does he have better legs than Ray and what tempo does he really bring? Pietrus is no game-changer.

Wilcox may have earned an expanded role, but it would be nice to have more team success with him starting. It is a bit of a Catch-22 though since he only starts when we are shorthanded.

Fans can always blame coaches. Nets' fans can always say 'change rotations' and reality can't be run twice to test outcomes so they can always say there was some other combination that would have won.

I was thinking that Ray, Pierce, and Pietrus would still be the 3-man wing rotation, just changing the pecking order to reflect the current ability of the players.  Pie would still back up Pierce as SF when Ray comes in.

He brings more defensive intensity and aggressiveness at both ends, with some consistency, which is quite precisely what we need.  From ANYONE.

How is Pietrus consistent? Look at his games logs. His offense does not show consistency. Perhaps averaging 21 MPG makes it more likely for his stats to look more erratic, but Pietrus on offense is essentially just Eddie House except with a lower 3p%.

I really like having Pietrus on the team, but he is quite limited. And if Ray is our best conditioned player, there isn't much of a need to save his legs (apart from the need to save everyone's legs as our easy early schedule gets tougher with less days off and more road games).

[Inside-Out]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

Why would we start Pierce and Pietrus together when Pietrus is our best option for backup SF due to size/weight? Also, if legs and tempo are a problem, does he have better legs than Ray and what tempo does he really bring? Pietrus is no game-changer.

Wilcox may have earned an expanded role, but it would be nice to have more team success with him starting. It is a bit of a Catch-22 though since he only starts when we are shorthanded.

Fans can always blame coaches. Nets' fans can always say 'change rotations' and reality can't be run twice to test outcomes so they can always say there was some other combination that would have won.

I was thinking that Ray, Pierce, and Pietrus would still be the 3-man wing rotation, just changing the pecking order to reflect the current ability of the players.  Pie would still back up Pierce as SF when Ray comes in.

He brings more defensive intensity and aggressiveness at both ends, with some consistency, which is quite precisely what we need.  From ANYONE.

How is Pietrus consistent? Look at his games logs. His offense does not show consistency. Perhaps averaging 21 MPG makes it more likely for his stats to look more erratic, but Pietrus on offense is essentially just Eddie House except with a lower 3p%.

I really like having Pietrus on the team, but he is quite limited. And if Ray is our best conditioned player, there isn't much of a need to save his legs (apart from the need to save everyone's legs as our easy early schedule gets tougher with less days off and more road games).

And Ray Allen is now an Eddie House with a higher 3PT% and marginally better defense, but making over four times the money a one-trick pony role playing wing should make, and with a starting role he no longer deserves.

Wow.  I guess I have some strong feelings about Ray Allen and his $10,000,000 salary (plus lux tax).

[Chief]

Meadowlark, you stirring up trouble? I love it!!! Doc is to blame. You can not put JJJ, Steamer, Pietrus, Bradley, and Dooling out on the floor together. It won't work. You got to mix up vets and youth.

I'd also like to blame Danny for 1 thing. Backup pg. We never seem to have one. And we don't need a great one. Just one that can set up the offense for a few minutes a game. I'd take Tinsley, Watson, or Rafer Alston.

[Neurotic Guy]

Of course Doc is not above receiving criticism, but we all know that he isn't a miracle worker.  When we are terrible next year we'll see plenty of 'Doc Sucks' threads and 'Get Doc out of here' threads just like in the days pre-KG/RA.  I do think he's been a good coach for this team and he is a good recruiter and a guy players want to play for.  He isn't perfect and he's always received criticism (or at least questioning) for his rotations and his lack of use of some young players (though I don't agree with the latter criticism).  But overall he'll be a good coach when we suck just as he's been a good coach while we've been good.   But like all coaches with imperfect teams, he's going to have some struggles.

[2short]

Oddly enough I posted something this morning in a different thread, not so much blaming doc but saying he needs to get more aggressive with the team.  The lack of effort is not acceptable.  He needs to call out the vets basically, JJJ makes a mistake point it out and get back to it.  PP is turning the ball over too much, yell at him.  Ray isn't hustling on defense, same.  All the bigs aren't boxing out call them out.  Rondo isn't fighting through picks, let him know it. 
I loved it when doc when bonkers on wilcox/jjj for not knowing a play.  Side note it was nice to see rondo who was dribbling and am sure not happy NOT do it.  Doc ran right out and the court and I could read his lips!  I think Doc the vets coach, who's been great for this team needs, dare I say? a little bill fitch in him.  There is NO reason paul and ray aren't filling the lanes on the fast break. 
Celtics, play hard, raise your hand when you need to come out, you'll get a sub.  We need to be using our bench, starters need to work harder or they shouldn't be starters

[guava_wrench]

for not starting Pietrus and Wilcox and bringing Ray and JO off the bench to improve tempo and keep younger legs out there?

Why would we start Pierce and Pietrus together when Pietrus is our best option for backup SF due to size/weight? Also, if legs and tempo are a problem, does he have better legs than Ray and what tempo does he really bring? Pietrus is no game-changer.

Wilcox may have earned an expanded role, but it would be nice to have more team success with him starting. It is a bit of a Catch-22 though since he only starts when we are shorthanded.

Fans can always blame coaches. Nets' fans can always say 'change rotations' and reality can't be run twice to test outcomes so they can always say there was some other combination that would have won.

I was thinking that Ray, Pierce, and Pietrus would still be the 3-man wing rotation, just changing the pecking order to reflect the current ability of the players.  Pie would still back up Pierce as SF when Ray comes in.

He brings more defensive intensity and aggressiveness at both ends, with some consistency, which is quite precisely what we need.  From ANYONE.

How is Pietrus consistent? Look at his games logs. His offense does not show consistency. Perhaps averaging 21 MPG makes it more likely for his stats to look more erratic, but Pietrus on offense is essentially just Eddie House except with a lower 3p%.

I really like having Pietrus on the team, but he is quite limited. And if Ray is our best conditioned player, there isn't much of a need to save his legs (apart from the need to save everyone's legs as our easy early schedule gets tougher with less days off and more road games).

And Ray Allen is now an Eddie House with a higher 3PT% and marginally better defense, but making over four times the money a one-trick pony role playing wing should make, and with a starting role he no longer deserves.

Wow.  I guess I have some strong feelings about Ray Allen and his $10,000,000 salary (plus lux tax).

Look at Pietrus' stats. 99 of 128 shots are 3pt shots. Only 122 of Ray's 274 shots are 3's. Never mind the fact that Ray is shooting 30 points better from 3 and 80 point higher overall from the field. Assist rates don't even compare, though Ray's TO rates are slightly higher.

Ray's salary has no bearing on whether Pietrus is a better starter. People should not confuse being a good bench player with being a decent starter.