Pierce is a real problem with the team.

[goz421]

I say this in a way that would inspire respect, and in a way not often enough discussed. Peirce is a champion and has been a great Celtic, but he does no longer fits with a team which needs him to fill a certain role. 

Great teams are constructed a certain way.  They all have players who can get to the foul line when the game is in need.  Peirce used to be that player, but father time has caught up.  I have watched a slow decline in his willingness an ability to take it the hole since Amare knocked his tooth out.  He now often takes poor jump shots and makes turnovers when it counts.  This is why he is no longer the commodity we need.

The rest of the C's fill a role.  Garnett plays defense, gives limited offense from spot up shots, and brings intensity.  Allen hits the three's to swing momentum when needed.  The bench is solid.  Unfortunately Rondo can not fill that role either because he can't shoot free throws.

So we have no solid options in close games, and we never win the foul game.

The hard part for Danny is players like Pierce used to be don't come along often.

So will watch an early exit playoff team who will blow it up next year.

It's like watching history repeat.

At least that one year made it worth all those long ones of pain.

Break it up and find a new go to guy.

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree with some of what you've said, that Pierce is getting older, etc. He probably cannot bring it every night like he used to.

However, he looked phenomenal in Rondo's absence and we only played our best ball this season when he started clicking.

I agree, you "could" trade Pierce and get another young piece to go along with Rondo and the other young guys.

Or, because Pierce and Rondo are the two guys we have who can create for others - like Pierce did beautifully in Rondo's absence...the two of these head strong guys need to grow up and figure out how to compliment each other within a new paradigm or a rising Rondo and slightly descending Pierce.

For example, when Rondo is running, Pierce needs get his ass in gear and fill the lane. And he needs to be actively moving and getting position in the half court sets. WE have plenty of guys in Pietrus, Marquis and Sasha to give Pierce all the rest he wants right now. He needs to stop moping around and be a team player and "get busy" and active to support Rondo when he is on a roll.

When guys are sagging off Rondo at the top, switch him out with Paul, and have Rondo running some routes and getting the ball as he's slashing into the lane or even in the post against his point defender.

To me it's an easily solvable problem.

If I had to trade either one it would be Pierce at this point.

[ScoobyDoo]

But I don't think you "have" to trade him. But if you could trade him for a nice young player at off guard to add more talent to what I think is a nice young crop of players in Rondo, Bradley, Moore, JJJ, Green, Bass and Pietrus...I'd rather do that than trade Rondo to add a player to Pierce, Garnett and Ray... 

[goz421]

The thing is you can not get anything of value of for an aging player.  It will never happen.

Pierce stepped up against weak teams, and he can't do it every game.

The thing his role is so important, and he is physically incapable of filling it.

It's no ones fault, it's just what it is.  It is the price we paid for the big gamble taken.  I say the championship was worth it.

[ACF]

Age wrinkles the body. Quitting wrinkles the soul.  
--Douglas MacArthur

It ain't over until the fat lady sings.

[ScoobyDoo]

True and True - he can't and it "was" worth it. I would argue, were it not for injuries to, in succession, KG & Powe, Perk  and then Shaq & Rondo, we might easily be looking at 2-4 championships with this group. I think that's a fair and valid argument.

So, true and true. But what would you do? Trade Rondo and get more of the same from Pierce? If we could add another banger big man, like Pryzbilla or similar and get healthy that we could make a nice "team" run this year.

But after this? It's done, so if it was obvious we were going nowhere this year,m no shot at even a good playoff run....If I could trade Pierce to some contender in the West for a good young player I might do it. Same with Ray. I think it would be harder with KG due to the size of his contract.

But I do think if you went shopping there would be some team on the fringe of a ring who would correctly see Pierce as a guy who could help get them over the top without costing them long term competitiveness.

What would you do if it was all falling apart by the end of this month or before the trade deadline?

I want to say again though, that I think this team, if we can add one more vet big and stay healthy does in fact have one more potentially lethal run in them come playoff time.

I'm saying if the wheels come off completely...

[European NBA fan]

The thing is you can not get anything of value of for an aging player.  It will never happen.

Pierce stepped up against weak teams, and he can't do it every game.

The thing his role is so important, and he is physically incapable of filling it.

It's no ones fault, it's just what it is.  It is the price we paid for the big gamble taken.  I say the championship was worth it.

I partially agree. Pierce is able to step up against weaker small forwards, i.e guys he can beat off the dribble or post up against. These kind of matchups make opponents double team on Pierce and then he can create for others.
More or less the same thing with Rondo, except his problem is taking his own shot at the right time. Afainst slow or small point guards, Rondo can do real damage.
We could really use a big man who can create for himself in the post and use the same kind of matchup advantages. KG can still be effective in that way some nights. Bass can do it against some second units. Daniels can do it when he posts up, but he is otherwise a liability. JJ might be able to do it, too.
The rest of our team needs ball movement, screens etc. to get their shots.

I guess that Kaman might be one of the best guys out there for our team (this year). Obviously that depends on whether the Hornets drop him or only want to trade him. And whether he wants to give it a go in Boston.

[Celtics4ever]

PP was a great player.   He was awesome during our winning streak this year and I think with all honesty that he was more vital to it than Bradley but he has come crashing back down to earth.

[wiley]

If the Celtics get Kaman and then stay healthy they'll win the title.
In other words, no one will be the problem.

[SHAQATTACK]

Pierce can still play.  He just let the team and everybody in Boston down by comming to camp FAT AS A TANK....I could see the pudge bouncing BBD like on his hips as he waddled down court.
I think he was convinced there would be NO SEASON.....

Ray is a gym rat and KG is noty a get fat type of body.  PP could be a WHALE really easy.

He let himself go down to far and its a huge struggle to losose the weight , build the muscle, and still have energy to play this crazy schedule.

He let his team down by not staying in shape and that is unprofessional with his salary.

[Inside-Out]

Pierce can still play.  He just let the team and everybody in Boston down by comming to camp FAT AS A TANK....I could see the pudge bouncing BBD like on his hips as he waddled down court.
I think he was convinced there would be NO SEASON.....

Ray is a gym rat and KG is noty a get fat type of body.  PP could be a WHALE really easy.

He let himself go down to far and its a huge struggle to losose the weight , build the muscle, and still have energy to play this crazy schedule.

He let his team down by not staying in shape and that is unprofessional with his salary.

In other words, you're saying he pulled a Shaq.

[dark_lord]

Pierce can still play.  He just let the team and everybody in Boston down by comming to camp FAT AS A TANK....I could see the pudge bouncing BBD like on his hips as he waddled down court.
I think he was convinced there would be NO SEASON.....

Ray is a gym rat and KG is noty a get fat type of body.  PP could be a WHALE really easy.

He let himself go down to far and its a huge struggle to losose the weight , build the muscle, and still have energy to play this crazy schedule.

He let his team down by not staying in shape and that is unprofessional with his salary.

tough to work out with a foot injury.

[dark_lord]

I say this in a way that would inspire respect, and in a way not often enough discussed. Peirce is a champion and has been a great Celtic, but he does no longer fits with a team which needs him to fill a certain role. 

Great teams are constructed a certain way.  They all have players who can get to the foul line when the game is in need.  Peirce used to be that player, but father time has caught up.  I have watched a slow decline in his willingness an ability to take it the hole since Amare knocked his tooth out.  He now often takes poor jump shots and makes turnovers when it counts.  This is why he is no longer the commodity we need.

The rest of the C's fill a role.  Garnett plays defense, gives limited offense from spot up shots, and brings intensity.  Allen hits the three's to swing momentum when needed.  The bench is solid.  Unfortunately Rondo can not fill that role either because he can't shoot free throws.

So we have no solid options in close games, and we never win the foul game.

The hard part for Danny is players like Pierce used to be don't come along often.

So will watch an early exit playoff team who will blow it up next year.

It's like watching history repeat.

At least that one year made it worth all those long ones of pain.

Break it up and find a new go to guy.

i think doc and danny first need to determine what direction to take with the team this season (add pieces to make a run, trade and compete this year while rebuilding for future, or blow it up completely).  until that happens the team is continuing with their roles from previous yrs.  if the team stays as is then roles need to be defined, doc should review with everyone, both as a group and individually.

my 2 cents

[Smokeeye123]

What about this trade with Pierce included to the hawks?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7efd3mz

Pierce, Bass, and Jujuan Johnson for Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Eric Dampier?

Our starting lineup this year would be JO/Garnett/Smith/Allen/Rondo and next year, Smith could move into the PF position.

[xmuscularghandix]

I don't think Pierce is the problem, i think in the past three games he's played against Luol Deng, Tayshaun Prince, then Deng again... that's a tough matchup for any small forward.

Ray Allen looks done though...  Old fella can't handle the ball or work his way to open shots.

Rondo, Ellis, Pierce could be deadly... i don't know how that could happen, but i'd love it.