Sorry JO, you need to get off the court

[PosImpos]

I find it strange that JO stands like statue for 25 minutes a game and Doc never says a word. JJ works and tries to make things happen and Doc gets in his grille. Then pulls him after 3 minutes. I think this is a good example of a bigger problem. Doc and his star mentality must go.

Yeah, Doc has way too much deference to established stars.  I think it comes from being an ex-player.

[Change]

I find it strange that JO stands like statue for 25 minutes a game and Doc never says a word. JJ works and tries to make things happen and Doc gets in his grille. Then pulls him after 3 minutes. I think this is a good example of a bigger problem. Doc and his star mentality must go.

Yeah, Doc has way too much deference to established stars.  I think it comes from being an ex-player.

remember it created a rift in the locker room couple years ago Older group vs Younger group. Doc is walking a thin line with his favoritism.

[PosImpos]

I find it strange that JO stands like statue for 25 minutes a game and Doc never says a word. JJ works and tries to make things happen and Doc gets in his grille. Then pulls him after 3 minutes. I think this is a good example of a bigger problem. Doc and his star mentality must go.

Yeah, Doc has way too much deference to established stars.  I think it comes from being an ex-player.

remember it created a rift in the locker room couple years ago Older group vs Younger group. Doc is walking a thin line with his favoritism.

agreed.  it concerns me because this team is about to enter a rebuilding phase.

[wiley]

I find it strange that JO stands like statue for 25 minutes a game and Doc never says a word. JJ works and tries to make things happen and Doc gets in his grille. Then pulls him after 3 minutes. I think this is a good example of a bigger problem. Doc and his star mentality must go.

Yeah, Doc has way too much deference to established stars.  I think it comes from being an ex-player.

remember it created a rift in the locker room couple years ago Older group vs Younger group. Doc is walking a thin line with his favoritism.

agreed.  it concerns me because this team is about to enter a rebuilding phase.

Yeah, I'd like to see Doc transition into a more god-fatherly role and be less of a snap dragon....If he's not happy and wants to send a player a message just take him out of the game and deal with it at practice when there's less stress.  I'm not a fan of massive chew-outs during the game when the player just has to eat it.  Save that level of anger that for non-effort.  Don't use it for missed assignments and the like.  He used to do that to Powe on occasion and I hated seeing Powe get screamed at when he was the hardest working guy on the court....

[Celtics4ever]

Yeah, I'd like to see Doc transition into a more god-fatherly role and be less of a snap dragon....If he's not happy and wants to send a player a message just take him out of the game and deal with it at practice when there's less stress.  I'm not a fan of massive chew-outs during the game when the player just has to eat it.  Save that level of anger that for non-effort.  Don't use it for missed assignments and the like.  He used to do that to Powe on occasion and I hated seeing Powe get screamed at when he was the hardest working guy on the court....

Give me a break this ain't little league.

[snively]

Using hoopdata to sort out centers playing 20+ mpg, JO is the 4th worst in PER (not that I'm a big fan of PER, but I can't think of any other measure at the moment), ranking ahead of only Okur, Chuck Hayes and... wait for it... Perk, who has the lowest PER of any of the players listed.

Of course PER isn't going to be kind to defensive specialists like Hayes, Perk and JO.

[LooseCannon]

(not that I'm a big fan of PER, but I can't think of any other measure at the moment)

If I wanted to do a quick-and-dirty comparison, I'd probably use WS/48, although I can see how some people might doubt a metric that has JO midway between Nene/Amare Stoudemire and Channing Frye.  Players listed at basketball-reference.com as C, F/C, or C/F with 20 or more minutes per game who have a WS/48 worse than Jermaine O'Neal (who is 26th out of 33): Channing Frye, Andrew Bogut, Byron Mullins, Kendrick Perkins, Mehmet Okur, Chris Kaman, Boris Diaw.

Among those 33 players (not all of whom are actual centers), O'Neal is 31st i PER, 24th in total rebounding percentage, 6th in block percentage, 29th in offensive rating, 7th in defensive rating.

If you drop the threshold down to 15 minutes per game, Jermaine O'Neal is also performing better than Timofey Mozgov, Anthony Tolliver, Aaron Gray, and Darko Milicic (who is averaging under 18 mpg despite starting 20 out of 21 games) according to WS/48.

[Celtics4ever]

PER, SMEER...

Just watch some games he can't only defend post ups now.  His mobility and help defense is shot.

[CelticsFanNC]

  JO would probably be passable if we had better athletes at other positions on the floor.  The real issue is we are playing four older, inferior athletes way too many minutes together.  Due to him being the least effective of the four he get the brunt of the criticism.  He's not a horrible center in today's NBA because there aren't a whole lot of quality players at his position.  Offensively he is a liability but so was Perkins.

  What compounds the problem is we are playing those four inferior athletes with the best open court PG in the NBA today which is a waste of Rondo's talents.

[greenlion]

it is the whole team that is failing, not JO alone, it is pretty lame that he be the only one to take the blame..lack of "team" effort costs us games..JO is still decent judging how he embraces his role and how people continue to put him down..nothing out there that could save the whole celtics kingdom, how each and everyone embrace and accept their roles is the only thing left..and i'm ok with that..

[igorsure]

When player return after injury he always played bad basketball. Looks like everybody should know it and just wait couple game. But definitely the day of first after injury game the topic like that appears.

Trade Pierce! Trade Rondo! Trade JO! Trade this first-game-after-injury-guy

[thirstyboots18]

I find it strange that JO stands like statue for 25 minutes a game and Doc never says a word. JJ works and tries to make things happen and Doc gets in his grille. Then pulls him after 3 minutes. I think this is a good example of a bigger problem. Doc and his star mentality must go.

Yeah, Doc has way too much deference to established stars.  I think it comes from being an ex-player.

remember it created a rift in the locker room couple years ago Older group vs Younger group. Doc is walking a thin line with his favoritism.

agreed.  it concerns me because this team is about to enter a rebuilding phase.

IMO we are already in the rebuilding phase...and it also seems that we have picked up a few promising pieces...

[Inside-Out]

When player return after injury he always played bad basketball. Looks like everybody should know it and just wait couple game. But definitely the day of first after injury game the topic like that appears.

Trade Pierce! Trade Rondo! Trade JO! Trade this first-game-after-injury-guy

Yeah, JO is always coming off an injury, though, and in a few games, he's injured again.  Doc's done talking about it and just puts him in there if the trainers say okay.  As a starter, it disrupts chemistry.  Off the bench, it wouldn't be so bad.

[greenpride32]

I know someone has to be the scapegoat but it isn't just JO the reason for our poor play.

Correct, but the fact that he is the starting center on this team or any NBA team is a complete joke.

If that's how you feel you should be blaming DA.  JO was signed to the full MLE to be our starting center.  Perk was obviously out at the time, and Shaq was a very unexpected addition.  That pretty much left us with JO as the starter. 

I think he's played pretty good defense, and if you are looking purely at this numbers, he gets no touches.  If you think Paul and Ray are being left out of the offense, JO is lower on teh pecking order and is lucky to get more than 2-3 shots a night.

[wiley]

Yeah, I'd like to see Doc transition into a more god-fatherly role and be less of a snap dragon....If he's not happy and wants to send a player a message just take him out of the game and deal with it at practice when there's less stress.  I'm not a fan of massive chew-outs during the game when the player just has to eat it.  Save that level of anger that for non-effort.  Don't use it for missed assignments and the like.  He used to do that to Powe on occasion and I hated seeing Powe get screamed at when he was the hardest working guy on the court....

Give me a break this ain't little league.

I didn't say I favor coddling.  I'd just prefer to see a player wilt under a stern look than shrink from explosive anger unless, as I mentioned, there is an issue with effort.  I am totally supportive of yanking any player, young or old, who isn't getting it done with effort, and tend to think it should be done more often.

I love Doc as a coach and I've long been one his biggest supporters.  One of the best things he did was benching Paul Pierce back in pre-Garnett times.  Why?  Because it needed to happen for Doc to establish himself as the alpha dog of the team, as well as being warranted at that moment.  I love when Doc lights into the team as a  whole.  The guy really knows how to deliver a message when they need it.  All I said was I don't enjoy seeing hard working young players get screamed at and then benched for one or two technical mistakes.  Lazyy ones? have at em....Hard working ones?  Give em a stern glare when they don't rotate.  Take them out if they're hurting the team's chance to win a game, but don't take them out if their positives via effort are outweighing the mistakes they make.  Maybe I'm wrong.

I still give Doc an A.  Just minor quips.