Ray's Efficiency Rating the last 5 games

[KY Celts fan]

Disrespect for another poster

[RyNye]

He kills us. I've been all over this for a while.

He is a specialist, and should be treated as such if we want to win.

Prove it. Show the metrics that demonstrate we are worse when Ray Allen is on the floor than when he is off. The "eye test" is worthless if you can't back it up with numbers.

Every advanced metric I have seen shown that our offense runs smoother with Ray Allen in the game, and all of the complaints about his defense are baseless. He's not an elite defender, but he is above average by a good margin.

[Marcus13]

Five games?  Big deal.

He's one of the best 2-guards in the league AND one of the most efficient. 

[Chief]

Pietrus is a SF.

Ray isn't going anywhere.

If anything he needs to be featured more in the offense.

We need to get on the break more...even a semi-fast break can lead to Ray drilling 3's.

I prefer my fast breaks to lead to layups/dunks rather than 3 point shots.

[MBunge]

Ray Allen's efficiency rating average over the last five games is 9.40.  That is good for a ROLE PLAYER off the bench, but absolutely HORRIBLE for a starter!!

Why is he RARELY or NEVER given any blame for our sometimes lackluster play?

Smitty77

P.S.  Agree with those of you saying to start Pietrus.

If we started a new guy everyone a starter stringed together several bad games, we'd have a new lineup every other game.

However, sometimes I wonder if the chemistry problems we see on this team stem largely from how Doc let's the vets get away with things.  How many times have we seen Ray just standing there helplessly while the big he should have rotated to block out goes up for an easy offensive rebound and score?  In the Steamer article on the main page they talk about his struggles with the pick-n-role.  Well, how many times have we seen Rondo lollygag around a pick and make an ineffectual swipe at the ball as his man drives the lane for a score?

Players are the ones who play but when you see the same weaknesses and bad habits not just game after game but season after season, coaching has to take some of the blame for that.

Mike

[rav123]

Pietrus is a SF.

Ray isn't going anywhere.

If anything he needs to be featured more in the offense.

We need to get on the break more...even a semi-fast break can lead to Ray drilling 3's.

I prefer my fast breaks to lead to layups/dunks rather than 3 point shots.

As mentioned by 2dark earlier in the thread, just the threat of Ray shooting a three causes one transition defender to stay on him, leaving the other fast-breaking Celtics a much easier chance at a transition score.

[KY Celts fan]

Pietrus is a SF.

Ray isn't going anywhere.

If anything he needs to be featured more in the offense.

We need to get on the break more...even a semi-fast break can lead to Ray drilling 3's.

I prefer my fast breaks to lead to layups/dunks rather than 3 point shots.

If you're running a 3-2 fast break, it really helps if that 3rd guy can trail and knock down a 3pt shot.

[Fafnir]

Well, how many times have we seen Rondo lollygag around a pick and make an ineffectual swipe at the ball as his man drives the lane for a score?

Mike

I don't know, probably fewer times than its brought up here and then I or someone else points out that synergy and other stats that actually track how well he defends pick and rolls grade him as near the top of the NBA.

Everyone gets beat on the pick and roll, it is the most efficient basic set in basketball and the hardest to guard.

[Chris]

I am quickly coming around to the idea of trading Ray.  I think he is the most movable of the Big 3, and he also is the most replaceable with Pietrus waiting in the wings, and Dooling also able to play some SG. 

Now, I would not move him unless we could get someone who can help this team now, and in the future...but, I think he is going to be the guy they will dangle. 

You could always use a sharp shooter like Ray though how many countless times has he made HUGE shots to win the game, get us within striking distance or lead a comeback with a timely three or dagger.

I do agree if anyone goes it probably would be him but were going to miss him more than most people think.

Absolutely.  I would never give away Ray.  He is an invaluable piece of this team, and constantly bails them out when they need him most. 

But, if we could get say, a young, starting center for him (like a Varajao), then I would have to consider it.  Short of that though, I think he brings too much to the team to let him go. 

I most certainly would not trade him just for a late draft pick, or middle of the road prospect, or something like that.

[Fafnir]

I am quickly coming around to the idea of trading Ray.  I think he is the most movable of the Big 3, and he also is the most replaceable with Pietrus waiting in the wings, and Dooling also able to play some SG. 

Now, I would not move him unless we could get someone who can help this team now, and in the future...but, I think he is going to be the guy they will dangle. 

You could always use a sharp shooter like Ray though how many countless times has he made HUGE shots to win the game, get us within striking distance or lead a comeback with a timely three or dagger.

I do agree if anyone goes it probably would be him but were going to miss him more than most people think.

Absolutely.  I would never give away Ray.  He is an invaluable piece of this team, and constantly bails them out when they need him most. 

But, if we could get say, a young, starting center for him (like a Varajao), then I would have to consider it.  Short of that though, I think he brings too much to the team to let him go. 

I most certainly would not trade him just for a late draft pick, or middle of the road prospect, or something like that.

Yeah trading him for size to contend this year makes sense.

Or if injuries or something completely derail even the sort of underdog playoff run that this team seems to be heading for. Then trading him for a pick or something like that isn't a terrible idea.

[Donoghus]

I feel like a Ray thread like this comes up every season.

Ray is a shooter.  He runs hot & cold.  This is his 5th season with the Celtics.  Its to be expected at this point. 

The guy can still play and he's still an upper eschelon SG. 

This team is worse if you try having him come off the bench and attempt to move PP to SG (this isn't 2002, anymore) and try and slot Pietrus in at starting SF. 

[Smitty77]

First, most of you have shown me metrics measuring offense.  Where are the metrics measuring Ray's utter lack of defensive in most games?

Secondly, I have been castigated on several occasions for saying inflammatory things, but it is OK for another poster to call me ignorant.  I trust that Roy or Jeff will handle this.

Smitty77

[Fafnir]

Secondly, I have been castigated on several occasions for saying inflammatory things, but it is OK for another poster to call me an idiot.  I trust that Roy or Jeff will handle this.

We can't catch everything, when such a post happens just hit the report button and we'll address it.

[Fafnir]

First, most of you have shown me metrics measuring offense.  Where are the metrics measuring Ray's utter lack of defensive in most games?

The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the assertation.

So you posit that Ray is a huge negative on the defensive end of the court, then you need to provide the evidence for that.

For what its worth if you go to basketballvalue.com or 82games.com you can find the on/off court numbers for each player.

[Fafnir]

http://waynewinston.com/wordpress/

We've been playing pretty darn well, but we're still being carried by our defense. I don't think getting rid of Ray Allen who has a large positive impact on our team offensively to give his minutes to a defensive guy like Pietrus is a good idea.

Especially when we need depth for this compressed season.