Kendrick Perkins Struggling (Danny should say "I told you so")

[Interceptor]

Overpaying for players like Green is how you end up with the Detroit Pistons.

Short contracts. There is nothing wrong with this if there's nobody better than Green available in the free agent class.

[indeedproceed]

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks.

In a league where free agents can sign anywhere they want, the kind of relationship that the C's were able to build with Jeff Green is valuable. It is also impossible without the trade. I know that this is inconvenient for the people that didn't like the trade in the first place, but it is what it is, and you conceded the point even though you held your nose and watered it down first.

"The relationship the Celtics were able to build"? You mean for the six months he's been here in an unsure contract situation? You mean that deep, lasting relationship that enabled the C's to offer him a qualifying offer only?

Come on. If the Celtics want him, they can have him, but so can anyone else who is willing to overpay, and I doubt the Celtics match it.

[BballTim]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

[indeedproceed]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

[BballTim]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

  I thought I read the agent saying that he turned down somewhere around $10M a year, which I found to be rather astounding at the time.

[indeedproceed]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

  I thought I read the agent saying that he turned down somewhere around $10M a year, which I found to be rather astounding at the time.

Honestly I'd be pretty astounded if the C's offered Green that bbefore the heart condition. I can't believe he turned it down, but I wouldn't be surprised if he expected it before he was traded.

[Interceptor]

"The relationship the Celtics were able to build"? You mean for the six months he's been here in an unsure contract situation? You mean that deep, lasting relationship that enabled the C's to offer him a qualifying offer only?

Right, a similar contract situation as the other 400+ players with the CBA hanging over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And yes, the qualifying offer that he accepted. This soldier notes here that you added "deep, lasting" of your own volition.

If you don't think that players are capable of chasing anything but their own rational monetary best interests, you should probably call the FBI and tell them that have reason to believe that Paul Pierce was kidnapped by unknown assailants, and replaced by a doppelganger with approximate baller ability.

Come on. If the Celtics want him, they can have him, but so can anyone else who is willing to overpay, and I doubt the Celtics match it.

Come on yourself. You already tacitly admitted the underlying point, that we have a better chance at Green next season than we do under the alternate reality where OKC lets him walk (our chance: very small) or deals him elsewhere (our chance: infinitely close to zero).

Like it or not, this was a direct result of the trade.

[indeedproceed]

"The relationship the Celtics were able to build"? You mean for the six months he's been here in an unsure contract situation? You mean that deep, lasting relationship that enabled the C's to offer him a qualifying offer only?

Right, a similar contract situation as the other 400+ players with the CBA hanging over their heads like the sword of Damocles. And yes, the qualifying offer that he accepted. This soldier notes here that you added "deep, lasting" of your own volition.

Well soldier, you're terrible at sensing sarcasm, but that burden might be on me for not making it more clear.

If you don't think that players are capable of chasing anything but their own rational monetary best interests, you should probably call the FBI and tell them that have reason to believe that Paul Pierce was kidnapped by unknown assailants, and replaced by a doppelganger with approximate baller ability.

Whoa, whoa now...Comparing Paul Pierce (made lots of money spent entire career here, has a defined role and is *ahem* the captain of the team) to Jeff Green is a completely false comparison.

Come on. If the Celtics want him, they can have him, but so can anyone else who is willing to overpay, and I doubt the Celtics match it.

Come on yourself. You already tacitly admitted the underlying point, that we have a better chance at Green next season than we do under the alternate reality where OKC lets him walk (our chance: very small) or deals him elsewhere (our chance: infinitely close to zero).

Like it or not, this was a direct result of the trade.

That point I don't contest. Because of the trade the Celtics have a better chance of resigning Jeff Green than they would have probably had otherwise. As long as some team doesn't come in with an inflated offer or longer years (both possible), the C's are likely in the front of Jeff Green's pack.

I just don't think that's such a big deal, or that it should be taken as a harbinger of good things to come.

[BballTim]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

  I thought I read the agent saying that he turned down somewhere around $10M a year, which I found to be rather astounding at the time.

Honestly I'd be pretty astounded if the C's offered Green that bbefore the heart condition. I can't believe he turned it down, but I wouldn't be surprised if he expected it before he was traded.

  No, that was from before the trade, from the Thunder, not the Celts.

[indeedproceed]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

  I thought I read the agent saying that he turned down somewhere around $10M a year, which I found to be rather astounding at the time.

Honestly I'd be pretty astounded if the C's offered Green that bbefore the heart condition. I can't believe he turned it down, but I wouldn't be surprised if he expected it before he was traded.

  No, that was from before the trade, from the Thunder, not the Celts.

That's what I'm saying. I'd be shocked if the C's offered that higher bid (it would logically be higher than OKC's initial extension offer, since it was declined) to keep him when they had the chance, let alone if OKC offered him that when he wasn't even in their future plans as a starter.

[BballTim]

And the Celtics have a draft pick to show.  Green is a free agent.

Now this is an unfair comment to make. The association has its hooks in that kid, if it's up to Jeff Green there isn't a team in the NBA with a better shot of getting him in free agency than the Celtics. There isn't even the barest whiff of a "what if" here, the QO was basically a done deal until the physical imploded. This is worth something.

C's have the cap room next year to make him a fair offer, and we don't get that chance if this trade never happens and OKC lets him slide into free agency.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about it. The Celtics got a late 1st round pick. Sure they have a shot at re-signing Jeff Green, but frankly I doubt anyone is surprised if he walks. There is a reason the Thunder were willing to let him walk and it wasn't just that he played the same position as Kevin Durant.

  I heard that the Thunder had offered him an extension before the trade happened. They weren't just going to let him walk if they didn't trade for him.

That's always been my assumption. Maybe they offered him a low-ball offer (like the Celtics did Perkins), but if they did, I never heard.

  I thought I read the agent saying that he turned down somewhere around $10M a year, which I found to be rather astounding at the time.

Honestly I'd be pretty astounded if the C's offered Green that bbefore the heart condition. I can't believe he turned it down, but I wouldn't be surprised if he expected it before he was traded.

  No, that was from before the trade, from the Thunder, not the Celts.

That's what I'm saying. I'd be shocked if the C's offered that higher bid (it would logically be higher than OKC's initial extension offer, since it was declined) to keep him when they had the chance, let alone if OKC offered him that when he wasn't even in their future plans as a starter.

  I'm somewhat confused. You said in a previous post that there was a reason the Thunder were willing to let Green walk, and I said they probably wouldn't have let him walk without the trade as they had offered him an extension. Where this conversation is going now is beyond me.

[indeedproceed]

  I'm somewhat confused. You said in a previous post that there was a reason the Thunder were willing to let Green walk, and I said they probably wouldn't have let him walk without the trade as they had offered him an extension. Where this conversation is going now is beyond me.

Ah, now I see. My position: I never heard of OKC offering him an extension, but if they did, one would assume it was a low-ball offer, like the one the Celtics were able to offer Perkins.

However, if they offered Green a 10 million per extension I am shocked he turned it down. Never heard of it though.

[indeedproceed]

  I'm somewhat confused. You said in a previous post that there was a reason the Thunder were willing to let Green walk, and I said they probably wouldn't have let him walk without the trade as they had offered him an extension. Where this conversation is going now is beyond me.

Ah, now I see. My position: I never heard of OKC offering him an extension, but if they did, one would assume it was a low-ball offer, like the one the Celtics were able to offer Perkins.

However, if they offered Green a 10 million per extension I am shocked he turned it down. Never heard of it though.

After looking around, it seems like an extension was discussed but fell apart in mid-October. 10-million per seems to be about the number people assign to Jeff Green's camp's 'inflated' value, but without any kind of material sourcing (in the 3 things I read). Looks like mostly speculation.

[Interceptor]

Well soldier, you're terrible at sensing sarcasm, but that burden might be on me for not making it more clear.

You were clear enough, and my sarcasm detector in in perfect working order. I just wanted to point out your hyperbole for what it was.

Whoa, whoa now...Comparing Paul Pierce (made lots of money spent entire career here, has a defined role and is *ahem* the captain of the team) to Jeff Green is a completely false comparison.

Negative. It is precisely the same thing, just a (huge) difference in magnitude. Like the old joke goes, the baseline is established, and it's just haggling over the price at this point.

I just don't think that's such a big deal, or that it should be taken as a harbinger of good things to come.

But it does exist as a result of the trade, and that's why it's unfair to imply that Jeff Green is just a free agent like any other (see what I did there?). If he signs with us and turns out to be something good, you'll have the trade to thank for the opportunity.

Sure, maybe he walks, or maybe he comes back and is a bust, or maybe World War 3 breaks out and nuclear winter cancels the 2012-13 season. We'll talk about the nutritional value of five-legged muta-bears in the post-apocalyptic wasteland when they get here.

[indeedproceed]

Well soldier, you're terrible at sensing sarcasm, but that burden might be on me for not making it more clear.

You were clear enough, and my sarcasm detector in in perfect working order. I just wanted to point out your hyperbole for what it was.

I'm confused..you were trying to point out my hyperbole? I'm saying those alleged connections haven't amounted to much beyond lip-service. The Celtics offered Green a low-risk, possible high-reward qualifying offer that really didn't take a whole lot of faith or belief in Green on their part, and Green so far hasn't offered anything more substantial to Boston beyond lip service.

And I know, its easy to get riled up about this stuff and not for a second acknowledge how critical discovering his heart condition might have been to not only his career, but to his very life, I'm not diminishing that it happened. I just don't think it will manifest later into some kind of contract good-will.

Whoa, whoa now...Comparing Paul Pierce (made lots of money spent entire career here, has a defined role and is *ahem* the captain of the team) to Jeff Green is a completely false comparison.

Negative. It is precisely the same thing, just a (huge) difference in magnitude. Like the old joke goes, the baseline is established, and it's just haggling over the price at this point.

Its not 'precisely the same thing' at any magnitude. What evidence, if any, do you have that Jeff Green will sign with Boston for less money?

You've got 3 months of up and down play, a lockout of zero contact, a heart condition and a voided one year qualifying offer contract.

Comparing Jeff Green's situation to Paul Pierce's is also off because of what Pierce was sacrificing and what Green is hypothetically sacrificing. Green accepted the 1 yr qualifying offer because at 8 million dollars it was likely more than any longer term contract he could sign based on his performance, especially after his ~30ish games in Boston. On top of that, he would've been a restricted FA which would have dissuaded offers from other teams based on Boston's ability to match.

He hasn't actually given up anything yet. How is it 'precisely the same thing' as the situation with Pierce? Its not even remotely the same thing yet. It might end up being similar, but you've first got to have Green sign on the dotted line for less money than he could make elsewhere.

I just don't think that's such a big deal, or that it should be taken as a harbinger of good things to come.

But it does exist as a result of the trade, and that's why it's unfair to imply that Jeff Green is just a free agent like any other (see what I did there?). If he signs with us and turns out to be something good, you'll have the trade to thank for the opportunity.

Sure, maybe he walks, or maybe he comes back and is a bust, or maybe World War 3 breaks out and nuclear winter cancels the 2012-13 season. We'll talk about the nutritional value of five-legged muta-bears in the post-apocalyptic wasteland when they get here.

Well, I do appreciate a good apocalypse joke, but its a lot more probable that he comes back and is just Jeff Green, who has historically been an up-and-down player with a good amount of pure talent that was too small to play the 4 and too streaky from outside to be an exceptional 3.