Larry: Lebron over Kobe?

[BASS_THUMPER]

any body who takes lebron over any player changes his favorite player every other week..once lebron starts to slip a lil on to that balla of the week.

a fickle fan...

i pick paul over lebron cause im down with the C's and all the players..win or lose we are the best..

ive always been against the grain

[Celtics4ever]

t really isn't that hard to argue with.  In one way the messiah is like Iverson.  Where team management tried time and again to build and rebuild rosters around narcissistic chosen ones who were heavily marketed and also coddled by the league..  Some of the messiah's teams had little talent.  Some had a lot. 

Some of the messiah's don't show up where it matters.  They don't take over games they flat out vanish.  LeBron has a history of doing that very thing.  Oh, he is great until it matters.

[celticslove]

Just now... Lechoke 0pts 2nd half performance against orlando. classic LBJ game. yeah i'll also choose the mamba over him.

[Moranis]

Actually Larry did pick Lebron over Kobe when asked who the best player in the league was.  He said something to the effect that Lebron is by far the best player in the league.  And you could hear Simmons in the background say "by far" in stunned disbelief and Larry said yeah.  

[BASS_THUMPER]

yeah he feel lebron is the best but kobe got that heart of a winner

    stop and think...

really does not make sense

[cman88]

that and the fact he hasn't really developed his game as much as he should have if he was really driven to win.

He'd have developed his outside shot, his FT shooting and especially a post game.

Not to insert facts into the discussion or anything, but his rookie year he shot 29% from 3. This year, he's shooting 40% and for his career, 33%. Clearly, he's improved his outside shot. He has developed a ton of his game, including becoming a better rebounder, passer and a more efficient scorer. His free throw shooting - yeah, it's a weak part, but it's 75%, more than passable.

Unfortunately with ESPN, Twitter we'll have to be forced to listen to these lame Kobe vs Lebron vs Jordan arguments. But give me Kobe, Pierce, Wade or Durant over Lebron any day because those guys are about winning.   

Only on CelticsBlog would someone take Pierce over LeBron any day because he is about "winning" and LeBron...is not.

well, one of these players is an NBA finals MVP...the other wilted on the biggest stage..

[Finkelskyhook]

LeBron's weakness has always been his wilting under pressure and his will to win.  Physically he has it all, mentally not so much.

Some of it may be mental.  But I think a lot of it is that he doesn't get every single call when his games are broadcast for more than an NBA audience.  During the Finals and semifinals, when the audience is much greater, the messiah doesn't get to take 3-4 steps between dribbles.  He doesn't get to relentlessly hack ala Jordan.  He doesn't get all of the "drawn" phantom foul calls he gets in the regular season. And he doesn't get to constantly barrel over defenders on his way to the basket.  When he doesn't have every advantage from the officials...Those outside shots he's improved on so much are contested....Because a defender doesn't have to choose between either an uncontested layup, playing defense and getting in foul trouble via phantom fouls, or giving him a wide open 3.  To a degree, he gets exposed then for not developing his game.  He has the physical talent to do things he doesn't have to do in the regular season.  He doesn't have to.  I think Stern is keen enough to what a fraud regular season officiating is with his stars to instruct officials to tighten things up late in the playoffs.  When the messiah doesn't get these calls that are routine to only him, that dumb exhasperated look on his face looks even dumber.  To a lesser degree, same for Wade...Who actually can't always take an extra step or two while palming like he does practically always during the regular season.  The messiah is physically gifted where he doesn't need the help.  He'd be a much better player without it.

[BballTim]

LeBron's weakness has always been his wilting under pressure and his will to win.  Physically he has it all, mentally not so much.

that and the fact he hasn't really developed his game as much as he should have if he was really driven to win.

He'd have developed his outside shot, his FT shooting and especially a post game.

That, and also the fact that he's never been on a team with legitimate contending talent until last season, and even then he might have been on the team with the worst cast 4-10 in the league.

Look at title winners over the past decade and pick out any team there that had a worse squad than any one of his Cle Cav teams.

  I think, to a certain point, you can't give players a free pass for the team. Sure, there was weak GM'ing (with plenty of bad suggestions from LeBron, no doubt), but he's arguably the most ball dominant player in nba history. What can you surround him with besides role players? It's like putting another good scorer on MJ's team. What's the guy going to do, die of boredom?

[Tai]

LeBron's weakness has always been his wilting under pressure and his will to win.  Physically he has it all, mentally not so much.

Some of it may be mental.  But I think a lot of it is that he doesn't get every single call when his games are broadcast for more than an NBA audience.  During the Finals and semifinals, when the audience is much greater, the messiah doesn't get to take 3-4 steps between dribbles.  He doesn't get to relentlessly hack ala Jordan.  He doesn't get all of the "drawn" phantom foul calls he gets in the regular season. And he doesn't get to constantly barrel over defenders on his way to the basket.  When he doesn't have every advantage from the officials...Those outside shots he's improved on so much are contested....Because a defender doesn't have to choose between either an uncontested layup, playing defense and getting in foul trouble via phantom fouls, or giving him a wide open 3.  To a degree, he gets exposed then for not developing his game.  He has the physical talent to do things he doesn't have to do in the regular season.  He doesn't have to.  I think Stern is keen enough to what a fraud regular season officiating is with his stars to instruct officials to tighten things up late in the playoffs.  When the messiah doesn't get these calls that are routine to only him, that dumb exhasperated look on his face looks even dumber.  To a lesser degree, same for Wade...Who actually can't always take an extra step or two while palming like he does practically always during the regular season.  The messiah is physically gifted where he doesn't need the help.  He'd be a much better player without it.

I hate posts like these where people post things like they're facts/common knowledge with nothing to base it off. Lebron gets calls in the regular season, but not in the playoffs cause of a "bigger audience"? That includes two premises with questionable evidence as is.

It's one thing to say Lebron gets calls in the regular season, cause he did average 8.4 FTAs (Free Throw Attempts) last season, which was 5th in the league, but then he gets less cause Stern said so? He had 7.4 FTA in the playoffs.....assuming a "call" likely means you get two FTs unless it was an A1, you're basically saying Stern called in to give Lebron one half less of a call per game. Really?

And in that same season, he averaged 2.1 personal fouls in the regular season, and then 2.7 in the playoffs. Again, maybe one half less of a call given to game. I guess if you combine the decrease in FTs and the slight increase in personal fouls you get one less call in the playoffs for Lebron...but something tells me you didn't check these stats beforehand.

Claiming that Lebron's not a better player cause the refs simply choose to pamper him in the regular season so he doesn't have to do as much, then suddenly they don't help him in the playoffs is clunky, to me.

[Interceptor]

Not to insert facts into the discussion or anything, but his rookie year he shot 29% from 3. This year, he's shooting 40% and for his career, 33%. Clearly, he's improved his outside shot. He has developed a ton of his game, including becoming a better rebounder, passer and a more efficient scorer. His free throw shooting - yeah, it's a weak part, but it's 75%, more than passable.

He's down to 38.6% from 3-point land after last night, since he bricked two of them. The volatility should tell you something about his shooting, and sure enough, he's only taking half the threes per game this year than he was last year. LeBron is only 8 misses away from being below his 33% career percentage again.

I'll believe it when he can keep it up.

[Inside-Out]

LeBron's weakness has always been his wilting under pressure and his will to win.  Physically he has it all, mentally not so much.

that and the fact he hasn't really developed his game as much as he should have if he was really driven to win.

He'd have developed his outside shot, his FT shooting and especially a post game.

That, and also the fact that he's never been on a team with legitimate contending talent until last season, and even then he might have been on the team with the worst cast 4-10 in the league.

Look at title winners over the past decade and pick out any team there that had a worse squad than any one of his Cle Cav teams.

  I think, to a certain point, you can't give players a free pass for the team. Sure, there was weak GM'ing (with plenty of bad suggestions from LeBron, no doubt), but he's arguably the most ball dominant player in nba history. What can you surround him with besides role players? It's like putting another good scorer on MJ's team. What's the guy going to do, die of boredom?

This is similar to the idea I wrote earlier, except that he did have some talent around him and failed to make it better.  Everyone seemed to drop off when they got to Cle to play with Lebron.

But he did insist on keeping Gibson around, I think, and Gibson ended up seriously overpaid and the team wasn't better.

And TP for the hilarious comparison.  We saw what Lebron can do with other top scorers around him:  take turns standing around.  He doesn't even know what "share the ball" or "team play" mean.

[Celtics4ever]

Don't his averages go down post season not up?   That is not the mark of an all time great.

[OsirusCeltics]

Both of them lack the ability to be clutch
Kobe is just more brave

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I don't like either one of them! Thing is Kobe wants the ball during crunch time and he doesn't care if he wins or loses it... I think you gotta have that mindset, we may lose but when we win it's gonna be b/c I lead you there! Lebron just doesn't seem to have that! He likes the accolades but prefers to be one of the guys during crunch time. MJ wasn't letting people stop him (i don't like him either), he was taking it to you any time he had the ball during the playoffs (reg season too). I know you guys say LBJ had no talent around him in clev. but I'm thinking he had a better supporting cast all around than KoMe did with him and really no one but Pau when they won theirs (where was Bynum, hurt/playing hurt)! Someone less lazy than I am put up players and their stats on Lebron's best Clev teams and KoMe's two chip teams w/ Pau.

[Moranis]

LeBron's weakness has always been his wilting under pressure and his will to win.  Physically he has it all, mentally not so much.

that and the fact he hasn't really developed his game as much as he should have if he was really driven to win.

He'd have developed his outside shot, his FT shooting and especially a post game.

That, and also the fact that he's never been on a team with legitimate contending talent until last season, and even then he might have been on the team with the worst cast 4-10 in the league.

Look at title winners over the past decade and pick out any team there that had a worse squad than any one of his Cle Cav teams.

  I think, to a certain point, you can't give players a free pass for the team. Sure, there was weak GM'ing (with plenty of bad suggestions from LeBron, no doubt), but he's arguably the most ball dominant player in nba history. What can you surround him with besides role players? It's like putting another good scorer on MJ's team. What's the guy going to do, die of boredom?

This is just silly.  Lebron is essentially a bigger better version of Paul Pierce (stylistically for sure, maybe not mentally).  Thus, any player that fits well with Pierce would fit well with Lebron.  I have no doubt that if Lebron was paired with Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett the last four years, he would have at least 2 titles and 3 would certainly be possible.

Bosh, a 22/10 player, is a great fit with Lebron.  Look at how well those two play together when Wade is out.  Lebron doesn't mix well with ball dominant guards, like Wade, Rose, etc., but that is about it.  He could easily play with any other great player.