Author Topic: Hate to say it, but Rondo, I feel, hurting Celtics' offensive options, bigtime.  (Read 22148 times)

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Offline clover

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It's not about Rondo finding a rhythm, because he's a better offensive player than Bradley is regardless if he's out of sync or not. The problem is our style of play when he's there. Bradley gives up the ball early and the ball starts moving, players are cutting, and it becomes a nice motion offense. We struggle when we have Rondo dribbling at the top of the key and the first pass is made with 10-12 seconds left on the shot clock.

Insofar as there is something to what you say--and I think there is--the issue isn't swapping Rondo out for Bradley or somebody else, it is tweaking their offensive approach when Rondo is in there.

What else have we learned in the last couple of weeks? That this is still "Pierce's team", which I'd further guess to mean that Doc won't simply stick with the pre-injury offense going ahead.

Offline Tone

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I agree Rondo stops the ball looking for Ray Allen or just cant score. The offense without rondo seems to run more freely without stopping the teams energy.

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Yes, to above... Rondo being a poor shooter , kills the team. Rondo has to over dribble and kill the flow of the game .  The big three getting older , they can't hid his poor shooting skills anymore.

 "WHEN" he has the wide open looks , he can't take the shot.  This screws up whole deal "THAT IS KILLING US" , then he overdribbles looking for PP or RA to bail us out .  Then the shot clock has run down... The opponents back off him , most of the time he throws up bricks. This lack of shooting option is killing his game and the teams game.

The lack of a quick offense ..is mainly due to ROndo can't shoot the ball.

Rondo.....go out and practice dude .  

Offline Celtics Fan

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Relax turbo he just came back from a wrist injury

Offline igorsure

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Easy, guys. It was first Rondo's game after injury. He is not in the shape for sure, he made a lot of rondo-style moves,
but was not sharp in the finishing - shooting, penentration, passing.

Just give him more time. Every next game he should be better and better.

Offline manl_lui

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though i have to say, the Celtics move better when Rondo was out...

but it is Rondo's first game back, so give him some time...and he got hit in the eye, so lets be patient

Offline Senninsage

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All of these things that I'm hearing, that rondo was back from his first game after an injury, is a very weak excuse, I feel.

This isn't some knee jerk reaction from what I witnessed in this last game, or from what I've witnessed this season. This goes all the way back to last season as well. Rondo has to go back to his strengths. He needs to tone it down a bit. Nobody is saying he can't be aggressive, nobody is saying he can't make a fancy pass or two, but let the game come to you, and stop trying so hard to force things.

It really seems to me that he has bought into the whole "Rajon Rondo is the best player on the Boston Celtics" hype. It isn't true. It has never been true. Was there a stretch where he stepped up almost more than anyone in the playoffs to lead the team to victories? Yes, there was, but the way this Celtics offense is being run is hurting the team's offensive options. Our defense is not really our problem. I notice that Pierce, Kevin Garnett, Pietrus, and even Bass, move around a whole lot more, and are just more fluid in how they run the offense when Rondo isn't in there.

With Rondo running the offense as he does now, the Celtics are predictable. Too predictable. When Rondo is there, the team plays not to score points, but to get Rondo's assists numbers up. Believe me, there is a difference between the two.

It limits our offense to, unless it's an immediate 2 or 3 points off of a rajon rondo pass, then we don't know we aren't interested. It makes it so that much fewer players on the defensive end have to work, because who gets and dominates the ball is so predictable. When Rondo isn't there, you see all kinds of movement going on on the court, besides Ray running off screens, you see every defender on the court having to work harder against everybody celtic on offense because you just don't know who's going to get it, and once they get it, what they're going to do with it.

I'm a defender for the other team, know what I do while Rondo is handling the ball? I just make sure that I'm up on my guy, while keeping an eye on rondo, to make sure that when he dishes the pass, often times later in the shot clock than an offensive team would prefer, that I'm up on the guy so he can't get a quick shot off, or possibly call for a bit of help defense, to force the guy to give it up. And when they give it up, where do I want them to pass it? Right back to rondo because you don't have to worry nearly as much about rondo's offense outside of the paint. At least with bradley, he's far more of an unknown quantity, and they don't know what the heck to expect when he's handling it.

Rondo, if he went back to playing the much more simpler style that he use to, it would benefit our offense greatly. And he could break up the action, or keep the other team guessing by mixing in his new aggressiveness where necessary, or when the team would least expect it. When teams start seeing Rondo hold onto the ball less, that's where his strengths that really begin to come alive.

Rondo should be giving the ball up sooner in the shot clock, and moving to all sorts of positions on the court. Come on, confuse the defense a bit, bother them a bit, Rondo should give it up soon, and then move away from the range of the guy with the ball, and go to a different spot, which inevitably causes other offensive players to play the role of the guy who bails out the person with the ball by having them pass it back to them, and if things really get sticky, then rondo comes to get the ball. Just like this, we have far more movement going on, and defenses are a lot less certain of what we're doing. Can you imagine the danger of ray running off screens while rondo, without the ball, is pushing further into the defense, or on the baseline, or going in the paint, and setting screens, too? And don't say rondo isn't big enough to set a screen. He doesn't need to be shaq or perkins, he just needs to get in the other guy's way.

The added benefit of this is then teams are a lot less certain of what the celtics are doing, and it even at times will open rondo up on the baseline for a occasional jumper. I've seen rondo do this already this season, and in each case, it worked fantastically. I wish I had the time to dedicate to showing the success rate of the celtics offense every single time this was done this season. They literally score about 75% of the time.

Offline jiriwelsch

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you could hear heinsohn groaning and moaning when rondo would bring the ball up last night and not move it.  they are much more entertaining and fluid to watch this year when rondo hasnt been in the lineup.  i think rondo needs to sit back on a few possessions and let pierce or ray get things going.  with rondo, we get super predictable

Offline Senninsage

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And the thing is that this is easily fixed, even with Rondo in the lineup. He just has to go back to accepting the role he had before he became a superstar that is being called the Celtics' best player.

All I'm suggesting is just that the celtics offense stop looking to pad Rondo's assist numbers, and just run a proper ball movement/player movement based offense. For example, Pietrus is pretty [dang] creative off the dribble. We don't want to just give away those kinds of advantages because pietrus is reduced to shooting the moment he gets the ball from rondo.

Remember those plays that nobody expected between pierce and bass, where pierce dribbles a bit to the right after bass sets a screen for him, then pierce passes it right back to a wide open bass? Plays like that are harder, or much rarer with the way rondo runs the offense currently.

Offline European NBA fan

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Another quote from Paul Pierce (from Jessica Camerato):

Quote
"He's our floor general. He knows the plays. It's just a different play set when he's out there because he knows the entire playbook. So there's a set of plays we run when Rondo's not in, but when he's out there it kind of expands our playbook a little bit more. So we start running plays that we haven't ran probably in the eight, nine games, and that's really what opened up Ray for those 3-pointers, a couple plays we haven't ran in probably over nine, ten games."

Offline European NBA fan

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And the thing is that this is easily fixed, even with Rondo in the lineup. He just has to go back to accepting the role he had before he became a superstar that is being called the Celtics' best player.

All I'm suggesting is just that the celtics offense stop looking to pad Rondo's assist numbers, and just run a proper ball movement/player movement based offense. For example, Pietrus is pretty [dang] creative off the dribble. We don't want to just give away those kinds of advantages because pietrus is reduced to shooting the moment he gets the ball from rondo.

Remember those plays that nobody expected between pierce and bass, where pierce dribbles a bit to the right after bass sets a screen for him, then pierce passes it right back to a wide open bass? Plays like that are harder, or much rarer with the way rondo runs the offense currently.

If Pierce doesn't have the matchup advantage that play doesn't work. They tried to run it against the Knicks a couple of times, but ended up with Chandler switching to Pierce which killed the offense.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Rondo being a poor shooter , kills the team

LOL He is a much better shooter than Bradley his supposed replacement and averages more than 2 assists per game.

Offline Celtics4ever

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Our guys have to play one on one when Bradley is in there at their age it could come back to haunt us in a long season.  Bradley is averaging 1.3 APG.    Rondo is averaging 9.2 APG.  Doc likes Rondo more.  The big three like him more too.   Avery has a place on this team and he can be a defensive weapon.

This is on the coach for allowing it to happen and it's on our vets as well as Rondo.  The vets get a little lazier with Rondo because they can.  He will create shots for them with his passing.  But KG and PP both had nice games last night.  So what you felt was not reflected in the box score.  KG had Amare and Chandler on his at times too neither is a slouch in terms of athletic ability.

The guy who kills us is Jermaine.   Not offensively but overall.  He just can't covers athletic guys.  At one time, he was a heck of a player too.   But he is not anymore and his knees are shot.  We can't lock down the boards and every opposing center looks all world.

Offline Senninsage

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And I'll just say it, it's [dang] stupid for Moore to not see more playing time. This kid is a legitimate help to this squad. Why in god's name would we want to sit him for an entire game?

I just don't get it. Or maybe because we were playing form behind Doc decided to focus on a specific group to get us back into it? Either way, Moore needs more playing time.

Offline OmarSekou

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The media has not invented the idea that Rondo is the best player on the Celtics. His play has. Most guys on the Celtics differ to him and say that he's the guy who runs the show.

Why is he the best player?

Offense
  • He's the only player on our team who can get by his man at will
  • He has the best court vision on the team
  • He's the best passer on the team
  • For his position, he's among the best rebounders in the league
  • He has as much hustle and anticipation as anyone in the league
  • He's the best dribbler on the team
  • He's one of the best decision makers (Ray's probably at the top)
The most important thing is that Rondo's doing what's asked of him. He has to take a larger role because that's what the gameplan is. Paul doesn't get by people consistently, KG doesn't have the same intensity and tempo night in and night out, and Ray needs to be set up. Our offense is built around defenses collapsing to adjust to Rondo's penetration, and Rondo finding the right person to get an open shot or move the ball around while the defense is off balance. We mix in a few set plays to each of the big 3 and take advantage of fast break opportunities where Rondo pushes the ball.

For people saying we should trade a top 5 PG for a top 50 big man and scraps or a top 25 PG and scraps, be careful what you wish for...
"Suit up every day."