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Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« on: February 02, 2012, 09:53:44 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the longest post in Celtics history.  I started this about a month ago for my own sake, just to give myself a reference on who our GM really is.  Then I decided that when I finished it, I’d put it up here.  Some will probably never read it, as they should.  But some will, because they are fanatical fans like me, and are very concerned with how this team will go when we rebuild.  The man in charge, is Danny, and we hope he won’t screw this up.  Well, without wasting any time, here it is. (From Danny’s hiring until 2011 – not including our 2012 moves obv because the jury is still out.)

Also, just an FYI: I decided to split major trades and the draft with the off-season.  Rather evaluate the entire off-season as one (which include coaching moves, free agent signings, and smaller trades.)

2003 Draft: Marcus Banks+ Kendrick Perkins, Brandon Hunter (2)

Going into the 03 draft – it was an absolute forgone conclusion the team was going to use its first pick on a point guard.  In the ’02 and ’03 Playoffs – Jason Kidd absolutely shredded this team, and after trading Kenny Anderson in the summer of ’02 – the team didn’t even have an acceptable PG on the roster.  JR Bremer was starting 2nd round playoff games.  So the question was who the team was going to select and it was between Banks, Luke Ridnour and Troy Bell.  Lenadro Barbosa was a dark horse to be picked but it was clearly between those three.  As it turned out – clearly the best choice was Ridnour who was a very effective PG for a solid Seattle team in the mid 00s (esp 05.)  Banks was a fairly lackluster pick as he never fit with this team, but was still regarded enough around the league as he landed a fairly long term deal with Phoenix following his rookie contract.  While Banks wasn’t the best selection, it never turned out to be a crippling draft choice (think: Michael Smith over Tim Hardaway, Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte over …just about anyone in the stacked 01 Draft, etc.)  Kendrick Perkins, however, as we all know was a steal at the end of the first round, and was one of the best players in the draft following the star-studded top (LeBron, Melo, Wade, Bosh.)  Perkins was a key contributor on a championship, and championship-runner up squad.  He was later dealt for a (at the time of the deal) a fairly hefty package in return (Nenad Kristic, Jeff Green, and a #1 draft choice.)  Perkins at the end of the first round is one of the great value selections of any GM the last 8 years.  Brandon Hunter, save for a few good games late in the 04 season, never amounted to anything (as expected from a pick at the end of the second round.)

Overall Grade: B

2003 Off-season: Re-signing Coach Jim O’Brien, Traded J.R. Bremer for Jumaine Jones, Sign Mike James

Re-signing O’Brien wasn’t the right move.  Fortunately he quit, or it would’ve been a disaster.  O’Brien’s style of basketball was never the idea Ainge had in mind (Ainge, at the time, was quoted as wanting to build a team along the molds of the early 2000s Dallas Mavericks/Sacramento Kings.)  John Carroll took over mid-season, and in just a few months, Carroll gave ML Carr a run for his money on the title of “Worst Coach in Celtics History.”  Jumaine Jones was a bust signing.  Mike James, however, was a solid move.  Winning the starting job in camp, James was fairly effective here (and most of his immediate stops following Boston) and was later used as a piece in Ainge’s mid-season move to land an extra draft choice for the 2004 draft.  James is the only move, however from the rather worthless 2003 off-season.

Overall Grade: C-

03-04

-Antoine Walker and Tony Delk for Raef LaFrentz, Chris Mills, Jiri Welsch, and a 2004 1st

A move that almost every Celtics fan coming.  Whenever the Celtics would play on TNT in 2002, and 2003 and Ainge was on the broadcasts – Danny never had kind things to say about Antoine’s game.  When taking over the team, in radio interviews and other media outlers – he never gave Walker any vote of confidence.   In the summer of 2003, Walker was rumored in just about any trade discussion with other players that were in the same boat (ie Latrell Sprewell.)  It was a matter of if, not when, Walker was going to be traded.  Unfortunately, no matter what one thinks of Walker’s game – getting LaFrentz enormous contract in return wasn’t exactly what most Celtics fans had in mind.  Outside of a solid 05 campaign, LaFrentz missed virtually all of 2004, and was dreadful in 2006.  He was out of the league entirely following the conclusion of his big contract.  The only saving grace from the trade were Welsch (later spun for a first round choice), and Dallas’ first which was used to select Delonte West.  However, late firsts could be acquired for a far cheaper price tag than having to absorb a LaFrentz contract that had him tallying 13M in 04, 05, and 06.  If the team was trying to get younger, Walker easily could’ve been dealt for expirings and draft choices. However, as stated above, during that team Ainge was really trying to build a team similar to that of the Bibby-Peja-Webber-Vlade Kings and the Nash-Finley-Dirk Mavericks.  He saw LaFrentz as a valuable piece to this.  That never worked out.  Fortunately, Ainge cashed in BIG TIME on Welsch (later spun for a first rounder that acquired Rondo), and Delonte West.

Overall Grade: C-

-Eric Williams, Kedrick Brown, and Tony Battie for Ricky Davis, Chris Mihm and Yogi Stewart

A controversial move at the time, giving away two high character guys and valuable pieces to the 2002 and 2003 Celtics teams.  However, Ainge at the time was clearly focused on the “5 Year Plan” he laid out in a summer 2003 press conference.  By this point, with the team below “at-the-time” win totals of the 02 and 03 campaigns, the 2004 season was somewhat of a throwaway.  Ainge saw the chance to acquire a talented player on the cheap, no matter the character issues, for a roster that lacked any true talent besides Paul Pierce.  Mihm was even still considered a decent young talent at the time.  He did this without giving up any draft choices, and only players, who while we were very solid in their own right – both made decent salaries, and just had no value to a rebuilding team.  This was clearly the move that got the wheels spinning on the Celtics wagon.

Overall Grade: B+

3 team trade (Rasheed Wallace to Detroit trade) Out: Mike James and Chris Mills – In: Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter (waived back to Detroit), 3M in cash and a 2004 1st

A lot of people were upset because it was a move that “helped our rivals”  However, Ainge wasn’t worried about that, and saw it as a move to snag another first in a draft he was quoted many times as one he liked.  He also picked up a more stable point guard (as James was more of a combo threat rather than a true point.)  Oddly enough, Atkins’ stabling prescence allowed the team to play a little better basketball down the stretch and sneak into the post-season as a dreadful 8 seed.  The team, at the time of the trade, was in utter free-fall and could have landed anywhere between the 5th, 6th, or 7th best chances to win the 2004 draft lottery.  However, Ainge got what he wanted (another first), without giving up anything of value whatsoever.  The draft choice was used to select Tony Allen.  And mega-bonus points for helping the Pistons acquire Wallace who later went out to kick the Lakers behinds in the 04 Finals.

Overall Grade: A- (only thing holding back the A was Atkins helping this team reach the playoffs rather than continuing to tank)


2004 Draft: Al Jefferson+Tony Allen+Delonte West, Justin Reed (2)

The draft that basically accelerated the rebuilding stages in Boston.  When we look back in history, one would say: wow what a draft! Going into that draft, Ainge value it highly.  Even though the general consensus at the time was that it wasn’t a good draft (in reality, it turned out to be solid.)  Ainge got a borderline franchise big man building block, and two great role players – without having a pick in the lottery.  All three of these players were contributors on the 2005 Celtics which went on to win the division and be the East’s 3 seed.  However, points do have to be deducted off of Ainge because Jefferson was not Ainge’s first choice.  In fact, he might not have even been Ainge’s second (there were some rumors about Luke Jackson.)  Ainge was absolutely fascinated with an unknown high school center named Robert Swift.  Swift was a colossal bust in the pros, and fortunately neither he or Jackson were there for Boston at 14.  Drafting Swift over Jefferson would have been an unmitigated disaster, and quite frankly if that happened, Ainge would have been out of a job.  While Banks over Ridnour wasn’t crippling by any stretch of the imagination, this would have been.  The Jefferson selection was one of the best things that happened to this franchise during the doldrums years of the franchise from 93-07.  The franchise-altering trade for KG doesn’t even get considered by Minnesota without Jefferson.  Ainge also wanted Dorrell Wright over Tony Allen. Also, while Tony Allen is certainly a good pro – he regressed after a hot start in the 05 season.  Was in Doc’s doghouse in 06, blew out his knee after seemingly blossoming in 07.  And then wasn’t much of any contributor on the 08 or 09 Celtics.  We never really got to see the real Tony Allen till the 2010 playoffs. Kevin Martin would have been a better pick, and many at the time thought he should have been the pick.  Martin, however, was never considered by Boston as it really was between Wright and Allen.  However, all in all a very good draft.

Grade: B+ (Harsh, but like I said – loses major points for the fact that the guys he picked weren’t his main guys.)

2004 Off-season:

-Hiring Doc Rivers, Re-signing Mark Blount, Traded Chucky Atkins, Chris Mihm and Jumaine Jones to LA for Gary Payton and a 1st round draft choice, Signed Tom Gugliotta

Hot and cold.  Freezing cold: re-signing Mark Blount.  I knew the second half of the 2004 season was a total contract run.  He played with more intensity in those two months than I ever saw from him all rolled up into one times a million.  Absolutely absurd Danny fell for that.  Hot, of course, hiring Doc.  Nothing more needs to be said.  And major points for sticking by him during 2007.  The Payton trade was a solid trade, as the team shed salary, picked up an extra first and got a solid point guard that really stabilized the 2005 team.  He was a good presence for that team, and had a rather underrated stay here.  Googs was a huge bust.  If not for Doc, this off-season would have been a D however.  The Blount signing was that bad.

Grade: B-

We also made a few in season moves in 05.  Walter McCarty was traded to Phx for a 2nd, which was a 2nd that was later used to trade for a 2nd to select Orien Greene.  But Ainge also totally heisted Cleveland when he traded Jiri Welsch for a first round pick.  That first was traded in 06 to Phoenix to select Rondo.  So give an A to Ainge there.

In season trade: Gary Payton (later returned), Tom Gugliotta, Michael Stewart and the first round pick that the Lakers gave us in the Payton trade to Atlanta for Antoine Walker

This was a move that was pushed by Wyc and Steve.  The Celtics, even though they were having a semi-decent season (by the doldrums Celtics standards) were absolute irrelevant in the city of  Boston.  Even despite they were the only team playing during the winter months following the Patriots 3rd SuperBowl (the NHL was locked out that whole year.)  The Celtics needed some buzz.  So they traded back for a fan favorite, and ultra-polarizing Antoine Walker.  The Celtics played well down the stretch (including winning 12/13 right after acquiring Walker) and there was a bit of buzz (but not much) regarding the Celtics.  However, the trade was an absolute waste.  The Celtics got the result they would have had regardless whether they made the trade or not (they most likely would have won the Atlantic with or without Walker, and they definitely would have made the post-season that year even if they didn’t make the trade.)  They lost in the first round, at home, in embarrassing fashion.  And the team gave up one of those cherished draft choices that Ainge was accumulating during the rebuilding stage (this was still Year 2 of the 5 Year Plan no matter how badly the fans wanted to see an extra playoff series.)  There’s no sense giving up a 1st rounder just to get a little buzz on WEEI for a few weeks.  I guess you can’t fault Ainge because this wasn’t really his trade, but regardless, I will grade it for what it was.

Grade: F

2005 Draft: Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes+Orien Greene (2)

Fans were absolutely estatic when the Celtics came away with Gerald Green who entered the 05 draft with much hype.  While Green turned out to be a huge bust, he was still a good pick as he some value in the league at the time he was traded to Minnesota.  It wasn’t the best pick, but once again, it wouldn’t have been as big of a disaster as picking Swift over Jefferson would have been.  Ryan Gomes was an absolute steal in the 2nd round and Ainge deserves major props for taking him (I remember badly wanting him, and was pumped when I heard Russ Granik call his name.)  Oddly, Ainge guaranteed Orien Greene that we would draft him (for whatever reason), and I can’t remember if I read it here or the old ESPN boards but there were rumors that Ainge regretted that because he didn’t think Amir Johnson would be available which he was.  There were also reports that Ainge was also dying that Al Jefferson’s friend Monta Ellis would fall to 50, but that never happened.  Ainge has always had an infatuation with Ellis (as evidence by trying to trade Ray Allen for him in 2010.

Grade: B-

2005 Off-season: Signed Brian Scalabrine, Traded 2nd rounder for Dan Dickau

A fairly pointless off-season.  People forget, while Scalabrine was immensely popular during the 08-10 years, he was the symbol of the dreadful 2006+2007 teams.  He was an overpaid, talentless veteran who was boo’d every time he touched the ball by a large portion of the nine thousand some fans that would attend games during the miserable 07 year.  Dickau never amounted to anything either.  This was a waste.

Grade: F

In season trade:  Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Justin Reed, and Marcus Banks for Wally Szczerbiak, Michael Olowakandi, and a 1st round draft choice.

Ainge got an immediate upgrade in Wally over Davis.  He also cleared a lot of clutter on the roster in Reed, Blount (huge contract), and Marcus Banks.  For a year, Wally was far better than Ricky Davis ever was before plummeting in the 2007 season.  Ainge, however, stole a draft choice from Minnesota.  This pick ended up becoming the 6th pick in the 2009 draft (as it was eventually returned to Minnesota.)  Ainge got a better player in Wally, cleared an awful contract in Blount, and grabbed a pick that ended up becoming a lottery pick.  Wally fading in 2007 hurt, as he lost much of his value after that season.  Still, a very solid trade.

Grade: A-

2006 Draft: Leon Powe (2), Trade: #7, Raef LaFrentz, Dan Dickau to Portland for Theo Ratliff, and Sebastian Telfair.  Trade: 1st rnd to PHX for  #21 (Rajon Rondo), and Brian Grant (‘s contract.)

The ultimate mixed bag.  A lot of people will say “well, Minnesota needed Ratliff’s expiring contract.”  However, what would have been more important to the Wolves – one less year in a contract or a dynamic stud in Roy? Had Danny done his job, and actually looked at Brandon Roy (who was never really considered by Ainge – it was either Foye, or possibly reaching for Marcus Williams/Rajon Rondo) we may have been able to keep some of those pieces we sent to the Wolves in the KG deal.  The Telfair deal gets an F in my book and there’s no way around it.  Ainge, however, saved this draft with two A, even A+ moves.  Rondo of course, was the best player on an NBA Finalist in 2010, and Leon Powe was on pace to have a great career if not for a knee injury.  He was a huge part of the 2008 bench, and practically won a Finals game in Game 2 2008.  This night gave us the best and the worst of Danny Ainge.

Overall Grade: B-

2006 Off-season: Signed Allan Ray. Re-sign Paul Pierce to 5 year contract (with opt out after 4th year)

Following Pierce’s impressive 2006 season, Pierce re-upped with Boston for the long term.  There were rumors of players in the league who were critical of Pierce, signing with a ‘loser’ (heard Jackie Mac saying some Pistons players back then, Hamilton, Prince) were those.  Either way, this was a victory for Ainge.  He was able to keep a Hall of Famer in a situation that was not-so-hot at the time for the remainder of the prime of his career. The rest of the off-season was pretty much a throw-away.

Grade: B+

No major in-season moves.

2007 Draft: Trade Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West, #5 Overall (Jeff Green) to Seattle for Ray Allen and #35 (Glen Davis)

Danny’s home run trade.  A trade that was met with much lukewarm response by fans was what got everything rolling.  The trade wasn’t met with high regards because Allen was 32, and was coming off double ankle surgery.  How many charts did we see reading about “shooting guards past 32” that had many of the great SGs of the 90s and early 00s fading away at the age, with the outliers being Michael Jordan and Reggie Miller? As we have seen, Ray has joined those outliers, posting his best season as a Celtic at 35 in 2011.  Many were upset because after missing out on KG, all Ray Allen was going to get us was a chance to compete for a playoff spot.  However, Ainge was able to complete a trade without giving up his most valuable asset (Al Jefferson), and only major expiring contract on the team (Ratliff).  He was able to trade Wally who still had two more years left on a contract that paid him near max money.  Ainge was also able to make a very quality selection with the 2nd round pick that was also acquired in the deal in Glen Davis, who was an exceptional fill in starter for Kevin Garnett in 2009, and was a key bench player on the 2010 Finals run.  No doubt about this one.  Ainge’s shrewdest trade by a mile.

Grade: A+

2007 Draft: Gabe Pruitt (2), Glen Davis (2)

Davis was already talked about above.  In 2008, he had his moments, coming up with some key plays in the regular season, and arguably winning the biggest game of the season (@Detroit) for them.  He was also a phenomenal fill-in starter for Garnett in the 2nd half of 2009, and was a great bench player in the 10 Playoffs.  Another team saw so much in Davis that he’s now being paid 6M a year for the foreseeable future.  A fine pick by Ainge.  Pruitt was a total washout.  He was selected with a fairly high pick in the 2nd round (#2 overall), and there many good players selected after him (Davis, Josh McRoberts, Aaron Gray, Marc Gasol, Ramon Sessions). We heard a lot about him, saying he was the best perimeter defender we had in practice.  Yet we didn’t see anything from this kid.  Only had off-court problems.  Bad pick, but coming away with Davis helped.

Grade: B-

Off-season Trade: Theo Ratliff, Al Jefferson, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, a 2009 1st rounder, and returning Minnesota’s 1st from the Wally-Ricky swap (turned out to be #6 overall in 2009) for Kevin Garnett

Everyone remembers where they were when they heard this news break, they even made a commercial of it (although, not very accurate because the story broke in the wee hours of a Sunday night/Monday morning if I recall correctly.)  There really isn’t much to talk about here. Yes, the Celtics gave up a lot (Jefferson is a very nice player right now, sporting a 20+ PER signed at less than a max deal), Gomes was a nice role player for quite some time, and no  one talks about the pick that was given back to the Wolves (with the protections on it, it basically turned out to be the 6th pick in the 09 draft as it was only Top 5 protected that year.)  Still, the Celtics got a Hall of Famer, who was still playing at a high level (4th in MVP in 08) and won Banner 17.

Grade: A

2007 Off-season moves: Hired Tom Thibideau assistant coach, re-signed Kendrick Perkins 4 Years-16M. Signed James Posey. Signed Eddie House. Signed Scott Pollard.

The rest of the off-season flew under the radar.  These were all EXCEPTIONAL moves.  Boston got lucky when Larry Brown declined Rivers’ offer to be an asst on the staff and instead grabbed Thibideau from Van Gundy in Houston.  Perkins was wrapped at a bargain basement price, and Posey and House were as good as signings as you could get with splitting the MLE.  Pollard was good for the locker room.  By far Ainge’s best off-season when the team was a contender.

Grade: A+

In-season moves: Signed P.J Brown, Signed Sam Cassell

Cassell turned out to be a bit of a bust, although he had his moments (@Spurs regular season game), but PJ Brown was dynamite for Boston in the back end of the playoff run.  Do we need to talk about his Game 7 against Cleveland?

Grade;: A

2008 Draft: J.R. Giddens, Bill Walker/Semih Erden (2)

Easily the worst draft of Ainge’s career.  Giddens was a dreadful pick, and both he and Walker were not even at positions of need.  Add in the fact that, Giddens and Walker were redundant players – I don’t know what Ainge was thinking.  The team needed either a big (DeAndre Jordan) or a PG (Chalmers).  Both would have helped then and now.  Absolutely horrible.  Erden wasn’t bad for being that drafts Mr. Irrelevant, but whatever.

Grade: D-


2008 Off-season: Let James Posey walk, sign Patrick O’Bryant

What in the blue hell happened here? The Celtics were dominant in 2008, and all they needed was half of what Ainge gave them in the 2007 off-season following the trades, and the Celtics would have been the odds on favorite going into the season (they slipped to #2 behind the Lakers.)  People say “wow thank God we didn’t re-sign Posey.”  Yes, Posey slipped, but was still a fairly decent players in 2009.  Not having him to spell Garnett a little may have very well led to the injury that is killing the twilight of his career.  “Prime” Kevin Garnett ended that night in Utah.  Ainge also never replaced Posey.  Pietrus has been a nice addition this year, but he was much better back then.  He would have been a real help had we signed him then and had him when we were contenders in 09, 10, and 11.  O’Bryant was a disgrace of a Celtic, and he was so lazy that Garnett wanted to punch his lights out in practice.  He’s repeatedly mentioned by Bulpett (not by names) in articles when it comes to guys not giving their all in practice.  He was shipped out of here in a matter of months (with Sam Cassell) for nothing.  The Celtics came back like gang-busters in 09, and had KG stayed healthy, they were probably going to make it back to the Finals (not sure about beating LA with that fairly weak bench.)  Titles are not won in off-seasons, but they are lost.  The Celtics lost 2009 with this summer.

Grade: F

In-season moves; Trade Patrick O’Bryant, Sam Cassell to Sac for a conditional 2nd (nothing), Sign Mikki Moore, Sign Stephon Marbury

Moore had some decent games here early on and he helped out a bit but faded away fast.  Marbury had one good game against Orlando in the playoffs (Game 5) and other than that he was a huge bust.  This wasn’t a PJ Brown-Sam Cassel redux by a long shot.

Grade: D

2009 Draft: Lester Hudson (2)

Celtics shipped away their first this year in the KG deal.  All they had was a second rounder which they used on Hudson, who was a washout.  Still, didn’t really miss out on anything.

Grade: N/A

2009 Off-season: Sign Shelden Williams, Rasheed Wallace, Marquis Daniels

Williams got off to a hot start here, but faded real fast and was never heard from again until he bricked a dunk in Game 6 of the Finals.  Wallace was a huge bust early on, but hit clutch shots, played dynamite D on Dwight Howard, filled in admirably for Perk in Game 7 of the Finals, and actually provided a stabilizing presence for that bench unit in the 10 playoffs.  Bonus points due to luck that he retired after the season, though.  He was ‘nice’ in the 10 playoffs, but wasn’t worth the cash.  Marquis Daniels was a non factor in 10, but a decent piece in 11 until he got hurt.  However, using the LLE on Daniels in 10 cost us getting Matt Barnes in 11.  Ainge was after him, but could only pursue him with the minimum.  Had we had that back up SF in 11, who knows if we do the ill-fated Perkins deal.

Grade: C

2010 In season – Ainge went through a lot of bodies.  Michael Finley, a bunch of NBDL scrubs – he couldn’t get the extra piece.  None of them really worked out.

2010 In Season trade – Eddie House, Bill Walker, JR Giddens for Nate Robinson

Trade came with some criticism due to trading a popular player but it was necessary.  That team was as listless as they ever were during the KG years, and something had to be done.  Nate was a solid player for the Knicks, but he was nothing more than average here, falling out of the rotation by the time the playoffs started. But then, all of a sudden Game 6 of the ECF happened, aka “The Nate Robinson Game.”  Then Nate played a very nice NBA Finals.  Nate then fizzled in 11, but those 2.5 weeks of very good Nate Robinson play made that trade worth it.

Grade: B

2010 Draft: Avery Bradley, Luke Harangody (2)

Bradley may not be what most people expected for having a pick as high as we did in 10 (remember, the Celtics picked 19th due to their not-so-spectacular 2010 regular season), but the overall draft was weak.  Picking him, over say Eric Bledsoe (who I wanted) isn’t a game changing move.  Harangody gave the Celtics one good game, but was shipped out of here quick.

Grade: C+

2010 Off-Season: Let Tony Allen walk, Sign Shaquille O’Neal, Sign Jermaine O’Neal, Sign Von Wafer, Sign Delonte West, Re-sign Nate Robinson. Add Lawrence Frank as Asst Coach.

This off-season came with huge reviews at the time, and was even passing the grade through the middle of last season.  However, Jermaine was not worth near the money (that MLE that off-season was very valuable, ex. the Bulls split it on Korver and Brewer.)  Shaq got hurt, and the team was so sold on his early play that they ended up banking the season on him, whereas opposed to when he was signed he was just a ‘bonus’ guy.  So in essence, he ended up being a disappointment when he shouldn’t have been (he was signed for the min, which was a STEAL.)  Not giving a Tony Allen a 3rd year is a killer.  He has turned into Bruce Bowen 2.0 with infinite more energy and athleticism.  He has proven that his 2010 playoffs was not a fluke.  Delonte, while hurt, was still a decent pick-up at the minimum and Wafer had his moments as well.  Any time you can get any sort of help with minimum salary guys – that’s a plus, and Danny got that there.  Nate totally tanked in 2011 after looking like he was going to work out for us with the 2010 playoffs.  Frank was a decent addition to the staff and impressed so much that he got a head coaching job.  Still, as much good we could talk about that off-season last year, it was all for naught.  Come playoff time, the team was stricken down to just the Big 4, with the only contributions come the playoffs from Jermaine and Delonte (and they were minor.)

Grade: C

2011 In-season moves: Trad (Release) Marquis Daniels, Sign Carlos Arroyo, Sign Troy Murphy

Blah.  None of these guys were any factors at all..  Murphy was a huge bust, and the team needed him (dreadful rebounding team last year.)  Arroyo was cut from Miami which is all we needed to know.

Grade: D

2011 In-Season Trade: Kendrick Perkins, and Nate Robinson for Jeff Green, Nenad Kristic, and LAC’s 2012 1st round draft choice (top 10 protected)

The day the music died.  Yes, the trade doesn’t look that bad now because people say “the Celtics were not going to re-sign Perk anyways, and Perk isn’t that good anymore.”  Correct, the Celtics very likely were not re-signing Perkins and Perkins is a very average player now.  But it’s not about now.  The Celtics were all about selling-out to win the championship in the last legit year they were a contender with the Big 3.  The Perkins trade ended that chance, and everyone knew it then and knew it now.  The Clippers pick could help, but with the Clippers fielding a good team this year, that pick will be in the 20s.  Kristic had a nice start last year, but faded quick and now isn’t even on the team anymore.  And Jeff Green, I hate to admit it, was horrible last year as a Celtic.  There’s no way around that.  He had a 12.9 PER.  Perkins also could have been SnT’d in the off-season for ANYTHING better than what that package was we got in return.  Hell, an 8M trade exception is more valuable than what was fetched when we traded Perk, who at the time, had decent value in the league.

Grade: D-

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 09:57:27 AM »

Offline Eja117

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I didn't think you could even put that many characters in a post. TP for showing me what is possible

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 09:58:45 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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You had me until "longest post in Celtics[blog] history."

TP for the effort though, regardless of what was said.
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Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 10:02:14 AM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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Very nice write up.

Everybody's going to focus on the last bit though, sadly. As if the rest isn't worth discussing.

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 10:19:10 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Good post.  I didn't read every word, but I think most of your assessments are pretty fair.

One quibble:

Quote
Ainge, however, stole a draft choice from Minnesota.  This pick ended up becoming the 6th pick in the 2009 draft (as it was eventually returned to Minnesota.)

We never would have gotten the rights to that pick if it was 6th.  See here.  We would have gotten the Twolves 2012 #2 instead, which isn't looking all that special.

The other critique I have is that sometimes, you analyze Danny's thinking at the time (marking him down for reportedly liking Robert Swift, not criticizing him too much for the Gerald Green pick), while other times you seem to base your evaluation on results (the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons).  I think the criteria needs to be consistent:  either Danny is judged in hindsight or on his thinking at the time, but not sometimes the former and sometimes the latter.

Based on that last point, I think you're probably a little too harsh on Danny for the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons.  I think Danny's thinking at the time was solid, and I remember that CelticsBlog was uniformly thrilled after each summer.  Getting Rasheed seemed like a coup, and Marquis seemed like a perfect fit.  Similarly, adding Shaq, JO, Delonte, and Wafer to a team coming off of a Finals run seemed brilliant.  Due to injuries and laziness neither off-season worked out well, but overall, those off-seasons seemed successful at the time.

Great writeup, though.  TP.


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Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 10:30:14 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Very informative and thorough.  I think, overall, Danny is clearly one of the best GMs in the league.  Most GMs probably wouldn't get grades above a C most of the time.
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Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 10:32:01 AM »

Offline BballTim

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  Without reading the whole thing, knocking Danny when he makes a great draft because he was rumored to want other players that didn't slip is ridiculous. Do you give him credit for drafting Granger and not Green when Granger was the player that he wanted? And, seriously, Swift wasn't the guy that Danny wanted in that draft. It was Dwight Howard, who unfortunately was already chosen when our pick came up.

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 10:41:09 AM »

Offline chambers

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Great write up. TP.

I'll just add that I disagree with the Perkins trade part, as will a lot of other posters here. As much as I love Perkins the character and player, I feel that we got the better of that trade (bar Green going down).
Can't see us making the finals that year even with Perkins ( he was on one leg).
Had Perkins not been injured and we traded him, it might be a different story- just look at him now in OKC- really not worth the money and may be the reason they don't make it all the way to the finals.

I also think that 2006 is A+ for getting Powe and Rondo.
Had Powe not been injured he could have been an NBA all second team player, he was simply a beast, outshining most expectations by far.

Excellent write up.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 10:41:53 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Good post.  I didn't read every word, but I think most of your assessments are pretty fair.

One quibble:

Quote
Ainge, however, stole a draft choice from Minnesota.  This pick ended up becoming the 6th pick in the 2009 draft (as it was eventually returned to Minnesota.)

We never would have gotten the rights to that pick if it was 6th.  See here.  We would have gotten the Twolves 2012 #2 instead, which isn't looking all that special.

The other critique I have is that sometimes, you analyze Danny's thinking at the time (marking him down for reportedly liking Robert Swift, not criticizing him too much for the Gerald Green pick), while other times you seem to base your evaluation on results (the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons).  I think the criteria needs to be consistent:  either Danny is judged in hindsight or on his thinking at the time, but not sometimes the former and sometimes the latter.

Based on that last point, I think you're probably a little too harsh on Danny for the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons.  I think Danny's thinking at the time was solid, and I remember that CelticsBlog was uniformly thrilled after each summer.  Getting Rasheed seemed like a coup, and Marquis seemed like a perfect fit.  Similarly, adding Shaq, JO, Delonte, and Wafer to a team coming off of a Finals run seemed brilliant.  Due to injuries and laziness neither off-season worked out well, but overall, those off-seasons seemed successful at the time.

Great writeup, though.  TP.

Except, that's what this is - hindsight.  The 09 and 10 off-seasons seemed good at the time, but didn't work out quite as well.  Whereas opposed to the 08 off-season which seemed like crap at the time, and was complete crap.

Let's say we use our LLE on Matt Barnes instead of Marquis.  Don't think that would've helped?

The whole point of the post was to look at Ainge's body of work and see the results from his moves.  Gives us a good idea of what we have going forward because, everyone is believing that how he does this off-season is going to set the course for this franchise for the next five years.  You could make an argument this off-season is more important than 09 and 10.  I'd say the 08 off-season was his most important (since 07) because at the time of the two mega-moves in the summer of 07, I felt 08 and 09 were our only years of contending, and MAYBE a bonus year in 2010 (much like how when Miami got Shaq they were only contenders in 05 and 06, slipped back to the second tier on 07, and totally fell off the map in 08.)

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 10:46:46 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Great write up. TP.

I'll just add that I disagree with the Perkins trade part, as will a lot of other posters here. As much as I love Perkins the character and player, I feel that we got the better of that trade (bar Green going down).
Can't see us making the finals that year even with Perkins ( he was on one leg).
Had Perkins not been injured and we traded him, it might be a different story- just look at him now in OKC- really not worth the money and may be the reason they don't make it all the way to the finals.

I also think that 2006 is A+ for getting Powe and Rondo.
Had Powe not been injured he could have been an NBA all second team player, he was simply a beast, outshining most expectations by far.

Excellent write up.

Not interested in turning this into a Perkins thread, but the team was playing well with Perk when he first came back.  Everything changed and you know it.  And Green was never a good player.  Always had empty points on bad teams.  He's a career 12-13 PER guy with mediocre perimeter D.  Perk was a career 12-13 PER guy with arguably the best post D in the league this side of Dwight Howard.

2006 - I can't give him an A+.  He never thought much of Brandon Roy, and he became a great player, and had incredible value from 06-10.  Ainge never thought much of the 06 draft.  The goal of the 06 draft was to come out with a pure point guard.  It was going to be Marcus Williams or Rajon Rondo.  Rondo destroyed Williams in a workout, and that was that.  But Rondo had a less than stellar college career, and didn't have a jump shot, so he didn't warrant a high selection. Ainge thought he could get his pure PG in Telfair.  If he was ever going to take the pick, he was going to select Foye.  You have to dock him for not thinking much of Brandon Roy, when Roy was a great player until his career came to an end.

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 10:51:10 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Good post.  I didn't read every word, but I think most of your assessments are pretty fair.

One quibble:

Quote
Ainge, however, stole a draft choice from Minnesota.  This pick ended up becoming the 6th pick in the 2009 draft (as it was eventually returned to Minnesota.)

We never would have gotten the rights to that pick if it was 6th.  See here.  We would have gotten the Twolves 2012 #2 instead, which isn't looking all that special.

The other critique I have is that sometimes, you analyze Danny's thinking at the time (marking him down for reportedly liking Robert Swift, not criticizing him too much for the Gerald Green pick), while other times you seem to base your evaluation on results (the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons).  I think the criteria needs to be consistent:  either Danny is judged in hindsight or on his thinking at the time, but not sometimes the former and sometimes the latter.

Based on that last point, I think you're probably a little too harsh on Danny for the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons.  I think Danny's thinking at the time was solid, and I remember that CelticsBlog was uniformly thrilled after each summer.  Getting Rasheed seemed like a coup, and Marquis seemed like a perfect fit.  Similarly, adding Shaq, JO, Delonte, and Wafer to a team coming off of a Finals run seemed brilliant.  Due to injuries and laziness neither off-season worked out well, but overall, those off-seasons seemed successful at the time.

Great writeup, though.  TP.

Except, that's what this is - hindsight.  The 09 and 10 off-seasons seemed good at the time, but didn't work out quite as well.  Whereas opposed to the 08 off-season which seemed like crap at the time, and was complete crap.

Let's say we use our LLE on Matt Barnes instead of Marquis.  Don't think that would've helped?

The whole point of the post was to look at Ainge's body of work and see the results from his moves.  Gives us a good idea of what we have going forward because, everyone is believing that how he does this off-season is going to set the course for this franchise for the next five years.  You could make an argument this off-season is more important than 09 and 10.  I'd say the 08 off-season was his most important (since 07) because at the time of the two mega-moves in the summer of 07, I felt 08 and 09 were our only years of contending, and MAYBE a bonus year in 2010 (much like how when Miami got Shaq they were only contenders in 05 and 06, slipped back to the second tier on 07, and totally fell off the map in 08.)

If you're grading on hindsight, though, rather than decision making at the time, then you can't give Danny an "F" for the Telfair trade, because Theo's contract was a huge part of the KG deal.  In hindsight, it's hard to see that working out much better, even if we'd drafted Brandon Roy.  If you're grading on hindsight, the Gerald Green pick was a disaster, especially when a guy Danny was high on (Monta Ellis) was picked later and turned into a star.  If you're grading on hindsight, the Marcus Banks pick isn't understandable, it's horrific.  If you're grading on hindsight and results only, it doesn't matter if Danny was linked in the media to Robert Swift, it only matters who he did pick, etc., etc.

I think at times you judged solely on hindsight, while at other times you slipped into giving Danny credit (or fault) for his thinking at the time.  All I'm saying is that whatever method of evaluation you use, it has to be consistent across the board.


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Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2012, 10:56:41 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Good post.  I didn't read every word, but I think most of your assessments are pretty fair.

One quibble:

Quote
Ainge, however, stole a draft choice from Minnesota.  This pick ended up becoming the 6th pick in the 2009 draft (as it was eventually returned to Minnesota.)

We never would have gotten the rights to that pick if it was 6th.  See here.  We would have gotten the Twolves 2012 #2 instead, which isn't looking all that special.

The other critique I have is that sometimes, you analyze Danny's thinking at the time (marking him down for reportedly liking Robert Swift, not criticizing him too much for the Gerald Green pick), while other times you seem to base your evaluation on results (the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons).  I think the criteria needs to be consistent:  either Danny is judged in hindsight or on his thinking at the time, but not sometimes the former and sometimes the latter.

Based on that last point, I think you're probably a little too harsh on Danny for the 2009 and 2010 off-seasons.  I think Danny's thinking at the time was solid, and I remember that CelticsBlog was uniformly thrilled after each summer.  Getting Rasheed seemed like a coup, and Marquis seemed like a perfect fit.  Similarly, adding Shaq, JO, Delonte, and Wafer to a team coming off of a Finals run seemed brilliant.  Due to injuries and laziness neither off-season worked out well, but overall, those off-seasons seemed successful at the time.

Great writeup, though.  TP.

Except, that's what this is - hindsight.  The 09 and 10 off-seasons seemed good at the time, but didn't work out quite as well.  Whereas opposed to the 08 off-season which seemed like crap at the time, and was complete crap.

Let's say we use our LLE on Matt Barnes instead of Marquis.  Don't think that would've helped?

The whole point of the post was to look at Ainge's body of work and see the results from his moves.  Gives us a good idea of what we have going forward because, everyone is believing that how he does this off-season is going to set the course for this franchise for the next five years.  You could make an argument this off-season is more important than 09 and 10.  I'd say the 08 off-season was his most important (since 07) because at the time of the two mega-moves in the summer of 07, I felt 08 and 09 were our only years of contending, and MAYBE a bonus year in 2010 (much like how when Miami got Shaq they were only contenders in 05 and 06, slipped back to the second tier on 07, and totally fell off the map in 08.)

If you're grading on hindsight, though, rather than decision making at the time, then you can't give Danny an "F" for the Telfair trade, because Theo's contract was a huge part of the KG deal.  In hindsight, it's hard to see that working out much better, even if we'd drafted Brandon Roy.  If you're grading on hindsight, the Gerald Green pick was a disaster, especially when a guy Danny was high on (Monta Ellis) was picked later and turned into a star.  If you're grading on hindsight, the Marcus Banks pick isn't understandable, it's horrific.  If you're grading on hindsight and results only, it doesn't matter if Danny was linked in the media to Robert Swift, it only matters who he did pick, etc., etc.

I think at times you judged solely on hindsight, while at other times you slipped into giving Danny credit (or fault) for his thinking at the time.  All I'm saying is that whatever method of evaluation you use, it has to be consistent across the board.

Hm, I think that was a little extreme when I said that two posts ago, because in my grades, I factored in much of the "at the time" and many other factors that seemed to be public.  That's fair.  That's like giving every team in the NFL back in 2000 an F for not picking Tom Brady.  Obviously, if you look at my grades, there was much of that "at the time" factor pegged in.  I mean, I did give the 10 off-season a C.  The Celtics had been linked to Barnes in both the 09 and 10 summers.  So, I feel it should hurt Danny when he clearly made choices over him, (the case of the summer of 10 - he didn't have the money to get Barnes, largely due to the fact we used the LLE the year before on Quis.)

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2012, 10:59:05 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Also - i forgot to mention this - Roy, yes Theo's contract was a big part of the KG deal.  But the next deal on the table for the Wolves was KG for Odom and Bynum (Odom having a fairly big, near max contract for LA that wasn't expiring till after the 2009 season.)  Theo's contract was very important to them, but I almost guarantee the Wolves would have rather had, say, Brandon Roy and pay an extra year of LaFrentz' contract.  That probably would have ended up in us, keeping, say someone like a Ryan Gomes, or maybe an extra first rounder.

Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 11:03:21 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Also - i forgot to mention this - Roy, yes Theo's contract was a big part of the KG deal.  But the next deal on the table for the Wolves was KG for Odom and Bynum (Odom having a fairly big, near max contract for LA that wasn't expiring till after the 2009 season.)  Theo's contract was very important to them, but I almost guarantee the Wolves would have rather had, say, Brandon Roy and pay an extra year of LaFrentz' contract.  That probably would have ended up in us, keeping, say someone like a Ryan Gomes, or maybe an extra first rounder.

Maybe, but maybe not.  In hindsight, that trade helped us acquire KG and a title.  If we'd drafted Brandon Roy, maybe Minnesota takes the Lakers offer, leaving us with the Big Al / Roy / Rondo core, with Roy ultimately blowing out his knees.  Maybe it *does* save us Ryan Gomes, and maybe because we have Gomes on the roster, we don't sign James Posey.  If it's in terms of first rounders, there's no big loss in that 2009 #1 (Minnesota took Wayne Ellington, and there wasn't much talent taken after him) or the other potential #1 (which turned into a 2012 #2, currently slated to be 42nd I believe.)

It's too hard to say.  If we're evaluating on results, the results of that trade turned out brilliantly.  The Twolves got immediate cap relief because of Theo's expiring, insured contract, and we got a ring.


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Re: Grading Danny Ainge from 2003-11 (Here's your GM Boston)
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 11:07:22 AM »

Offline birdbrady

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Also - i forgot to mention this - Roy, yes Theo's contract was a big part of the KG deal.  But the next deal on the table for the Wolves was KG for Odom and Bynum (Odom having a fairly big, near max contract for LA that wasn't expiring till after the 2009 season.)  Theo's contract was very important to them, but I almost guarantee the Wolves would have rather had, say, Brandon Roy and pay an extra year of LaFrentz' contract.  That probably would have ended up in us, keeping, say someone like a Ryan Gomes, or maybe an extra first rounder.

Maybe, but maybe not.  In hindsight, that trade helped us acquire KG and a title.  If we'd drafted Brandon Roy, maybe Minnesota takes the Lakers offer, leaving us with the Big Al / Roy / Rondo core, with Roy ultimately blowing out his knees.  Maybe it *does* save us Ryan Gomes, and maybe because we have Gomes on the roster, we don't sign James Posey. 

It's too hard to say.  If we're evaluating on results, the results of that trade turned out brilliantly.  The Twolves got immediate cap relief because of Theo's expiring, insured contract, and we got a ring.

Jefferson and Roy back in 2007, looked like two legitimate young pieces to build around for years to come.  You can say, maybe/maybe not.

But it's really moot anyways because the point is back then, Ainge never thought much of Roy anyways.  It was either Foye or trading the pick.  I dock Ainge for that.