Bill Simmons idea: JO+our two 2012 first round picks for Verajao

[Tgro]

I think its very sad that people would rather rebuild (whatever that means) than compete for a title this year

I know right!?

I think people seen that 4-8 start and had us as cooked. I'll admit, we're close. But I think we're also close to being very good. Surprising good.

[StartOrien]

I think it's all based on how people view the team. I tend to side with Rondo, and think that realistically we can't compete this season for a title.

[Rondo2287]

I think it's all based on how people view the team. I tend to side with Rondo, and think that realistically we can't compete this season for a title.

I mean i hope to god that im wrong, but as of now I just don't think we can contend with or without AV

[StartOrien]

I think it's all based on how people view the team. I tend to side with Rondo, and think that realistically we can't compete this season for a title.

I mean i hope to god that im wrong, but as of now I just don't think we can contend with or without AV

I tend to agree, but I think AV could potentially give us a puncher's chance. That'd force Boozer into covering someone significantly taller than him, and that could create some real problems.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to retreat to my cyber bunker to hide from Roy's Boozer-wrath.

[Moranis]

I think it's all based on how people view the team. I tend to side with Rondo, and think that realistically we can't compete this season for a title.

I mean i hope to god that im wrong, but as of now I just don't think we can contend with or without AV

I tend to agree, but I think AV could potentially give us a puncher's chance. That'd force Boozer into covering someone significantly taller than him, and that could create some real problems.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to retreat to my cyber bunker to hide from Roy's Boozer-wrath.

I actually think Boston with AV could beat Chicago and frankly I'd be more worried about a young athletic team (i.e. Philly) than Chicago in that scenario.  That said, Boston isn't beating Miami unless Lebron is hurt (and then it isn't even a guarantee).  Varejao might make it a 6 game series rather than a 4 or 5, but Boston will not beat Miami this year.  It just isn't going to happen.

[CelticG1]

People are talkimg about right now where we just went 6-2 without rondo. Missed Ray, didnt have Pierce.for games.

I think we look pretty good right right now and.i think Rondo should make is a lot better.

To me people can just get stuck in their own beliefs a little too much. Is out no matter what the celtics don't have a chance? Is it if they dont win the season series against the heat/bulls we dont have a chance? If we finish with a good record and split heat/bulls w dont have a chance?

Just curious what this team would have to do in order for people to believe in them.

[Jon Niednagel]

Don't have time to read the previous 6 pages (sneaking a look at The Blog on my break), so sorry if I'm just repeating what others have already. IMO I wouldn't do JO and 2 picks for AV now. If the big three were younger or had more time on their contracts then yes, but not now. AV is not enough of a difference maker as is, and would slow the eminent rebuilding process by taking cap space and picks away. I think those are better rebuilding assets at this point.

[StartOrien]

People are talkimg about right now where we just went 6-2 without rondo. Missed Ray, didnt have Pierce.for games.

I think we look pretty good right right now and.i think Rondo should make is a lot better.

To me people can just get stuck in their own beliefs a little too much. Is out no matter what the celtics don't have a chance? Is it if they dont win the season series against the heat/bulls we dont have a chance? If we finish with a good record and split heat/bulls w dont have a chance?

Just curious what this team would have to do in order for people to believe in them.

I think I probably hold the record for the amount of times I've admitted to be wrong, so if the Celtics showed me something to believe that they could win I wouldn't be afraid to jump ship and call them contenders. As of right now, I just don't see it. The offense is inconsistent, the rebounding is abysmal, and I think the defense is still too slow to compete against the elite (imo it's the lack of quickness which is killing us on the boards).

[action781]

I think it's all based on how people view the team. I tend to side with Rondo, and think that realistically we can't compete this season for a title.

I mean i hope to god that im wrong, but as of now I just don't think we can contend with or without AV

I tend to agree, but I think AV could potentially give us a puncher's chance. That'd force Boozer into covering someone significantly taller than him, and that could create some real problems.

That's exactly what I think.  The celtics currently are not favorites by any means to win a championship.  With AV, they still aren't favorites to win a championship.  Right now, I think if things play out right, then I do think we have a puncher's chance (a Buster Douglas chance if you will) to win it all.  If we acquire Varejao, then we pack a little bit more punch into that hook (to continue the metaphor).

If it doesn't work out, then we can either hold onto a fairly paid, solid player in Varejao or be holding a trade chip that other contenders will be interested in (esp. with fewer years left on his contract and the desirable team option) and we can trade away (for probably similar value to what we traded away for him) if we get offered a package that interests us.

I think it's kind of a no brainer.  I think if you want to turn this trade down, then you must be in the party that wants to blow it up immediately.  Otherwise, you've got one foot in and one foot out.

[CelticG1]

People are talkimg about right now where we just went 6-2 without rondo. Missed Ray, didnt have Pierce.for games.

I think we look pretty good right right now and.i think Rondo should make is a lot better.

To me people can just get stuck in their own beliefs a little too much. Is out no matter what the celtics don't have a chance? Is it if they dont win the season series against the heat/bulls we dont have a chance? If we finish with a good record and split heat/bulls w dont have a chance?

Just curious what this team would have to do in order for people to believe in them.

I think I probably hold the record for the amount of times I've admitted to be wrong, so if the Celtics showed me something to believe that they could win I wouldn't be afraid to jump ship and call them contenders. As of right now, I just don't see it. The offense is inconsistent, the rebounding is abysmal, and I think the defense is still too slow to compete against the elite (imo it's the lack of quickness which is killing us on the boards).

I just think the bills and heat are a little overrated for the playoffs. Lebron and Wade half to play out of their mind to multiple games in a row for them top have a chance. I think they also have to be somewhat respectable with their jumpshot as defenses tighten up and refs swallow their whistles a bit more.

My recollection of last tear isn't that the celts weren't good enough, it was (besides rondos injury) that those 2 guys played OUT OF THEIR MINDS. That continued in the bulls series as well. I remember thinking that if james is going to make every clutch 3 and play this well tha wed have to tip our cap.

I basically think the same situation applies to Rose. I think even at the celtics age they still have more ways and weapons to beat you


Ok, im ready for everyone to jump on me and call me crazy

[action781]

I don't think that team gets it done.  Remember Miami is going to be adding more depth each year.  And I agree making a splash is alot harder than saying it.  The celts havent brought in a big name free agent for as long as i can remember, and i don't see that changing.  I think starting over and building through the draft and then maybe trading for agining allstars again is the way to go.

I guess we're at a philosophical difference then. Personally, I take the proven talents over taking the risk on a mid to late round first picks.

If we had a core like Rond+Gay or Rondo+Josh smith, I would say go get Varejao.  I think Pierce has maybe 2 years left after this year and I just don't think you should bring in a guy like Varejao when you don't know who the stars are going to be.  I don't think thats good business.

But as pointed out before, Varejao is a type of guy you could easily unload if need be. If two years from now you're finding that Pierce can't compete, and the other players haven' elevated their game you could always flip Varejao to a competing team.

But then you are just pushing off the inevitable rebuilding process for a few years.  I would rather just start now. 

Not really - my point is that I think it'd work for this team, but if it didn't you've got an escape plan. Ideally, Bradley and Johnson develop and Rondo and the two other middle of the road free agents progress as well.

Rondo
Bradley
W. Chandler
J. Johnson / Humprhies
Varejao

I think we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.  To me that looks like a 6-7 seed at best.  Oh well, I think we can all expect Danny to do something none of us saw coming anyways

My problem with this lineup is that it is worse at EVERY position 1-5 than the Bulls.  I think that will make it impossible to come out of the East (nevermind how much better the Heat will be than us).  That reason is a good enough reason why I don't want this to be the core of our team.  This is one of those teams that is going to float around in mediocrity because it's good to land good draft picks, but not good enough to compete, and not enough potential (IMO, totally up for debate though) for it's youth to really flourish into a contending team down the road.

[StartOrien]

My problem with this lineup is that it is worse at EVERY position 1-5 than the Bulls.  I think that will make it impossible to come out of the East (nevermind how much better the Heat will be than us).  That reason is a good enough reason why I don't want this to be the core of our team.  This is one of those teams that is going to float around in mediocrity because it's good to land good draft picks, but not good enough to compete, and not enough potential (IMO, totally up for debate though) for it's youth to really flourish into a contending team down the road.

Well again, that's my 'in two years' lineup.

[Jon]

To me, this a no-brainer for a few simple reasone:

1) Maybe it doesn't make us the favorite in the East, but it gives a shot at taking Miami and Chicago to 7 games. And who knows what can happen in a 7 game series? Maybe LeBron blows an ACL?  Maybe Ray loses his minds and goes 30 for 35 from downtown in the series?  The point is, we have a chance.

2) The Simmons trade doesn't have us giving up anything more than late first rounders. The chances of any of those players being studs is very small.

3) AV's deal is actually not that prohibitive. We likely aren't going to get a big FA this summer anyway, so we're looking at 2013 or 2014 anyway to make a splash. AV has 3 more years after this year, but according to Hoopshype, the last is a team option. So why not make the trade, make one more run, and then be able to clear things in 2014 if we so desire with PP and AV coming off the books?

[guava_wrench]

I think its very sad that people would rather rebuild (whatever that means) than compete for a title this year

How many teams have in vain tried to get the 'missing piece'?

Can we set aside the terms 'rebuild' and 'compete for a title'? Where people differ in opinion is in the kind of moves they favor.

Some consider a move that improves our talent this season at the expense of next season as a bad investment because they do not see us having a realistic shot at the title. Among this group, there are those who feel that we should try to move assets that will not contribute in the future (like KG) and there are those who despite having low hopes for this season feel it would be a bad precedent to make certain trades.

Others are willing to hurt our future talent pool or roster flexibility for the sake of increasing our chances this season because they either think we have a legitimate shot at a title, or because they would rather see our semi-competitive team go all in now and enjoy this final time together than to sacrifice the present for an unsure future.

I find all of these positions reasonable.

Any decision making usually discounts the future to some degree, but we will never come to a consensus on how much to discount it. It is possible that we will have more agreement among fans about our prospects for this season after a few weeks.

I have little hopes for us competing for a title, but a busted Rose toe and continued injury woes for Wade and who knows? On the other hand, if Miami continues to add big guys around their impressive wing depth, I have little hope of us competing with that. I am fine with pretty much any trade if we look hapless at the trade deadline.

[action781]

My problem with this lineup is that it is worse at EVERY position 1-5 than the Bulls.  I think that will make it impossible to come out of the East (nevermind how much better the Heat will be than us).  That reason is a good enough reason why I don't want this to be the core of our team.  This is one of those teams that is going to float around in mediocrity because it's good to land good draft picks, but not good enough to compete, and not enough potential (IMO, totally up for debate though) for it's youth to really flourish into a contending team down the road.

Well again, that's my 'in two years' lineup.

That's what I was considering when I said that I think the Bulls 1-5 will be better across the board than our 1-5 (It also just happens to be currently true.).  But that all depends on how you see our younger players panning out.  I'm more cautious in my projections for these players than some of you may be.