Author Topic: Rondo's Defense  (Read 4116 times)

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Rondo's Defense
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:29:33 PM »

Offline Marcus13

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His defense has been atrocious this year, even worse than last year.

Teams have been high pick & rolling the Celtics to death this year because he doesn't even try to stay in front of his man anymore. And every time he takes himself out of the play the other four guys are being forced to cover his ass. He lets opposing guards waltz by him so that he can gamble for steals, again hanging his teammates out to dry every time he does it.

Both Bradley and Moore have been giving maximum effort to stay between their man and the basket and to relentlessly fight through screens so that their teammates don't need to cover them. By no means am I saying Rondo needs to be benched, moreso just that Rajon needs to commit himself to the defensive side of the basketball again...he proved early on he certainly has the ability.

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 01:39:16 PM »

Offline Zev Love X

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I think you're greatly exaggerating saying his defense has been atrocious. Yes he gambles too much but i've also seen him play outstanding defense at times and be extremely disruptive to the oppositions offense getting into the passing lanes and causing deflections left and right. You have to understand that he can't commit to sticking to guys full court and going all out like Bradley does since he has so many responsibilities on the offensive end while we just want avery to bring the ball up and get out of the way. Does he gamble too much? Absolutely. But atrocious? come on. Steve Nash's defense is atrocious.

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 01:43:24 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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His defense has been atrocious this year, even worse than last year.

Teams have been high pick & rolling the Celtics to death this year because he doesn't even try to stay in front of his man anymore. And every time he takes himself out of the play the other four guys are being forced to cover his ass. He lets opposing guards waltz by him so that he can gamble for steals, again hanging his teammates out to dry every time he does it.

Both Bradley and Moore have been giving maximum effort to stay between their man and the basket and to relentlessly fight through screens so that their teammates don't need to cover them. By no means am I saying Rondo needs to be benched, moreso just that Rajon needs to commit himself to the defensive side of the basketball again...he proved early on he certainly has the ability.

I am thrilled with the defensive play of Avery Bradley lately and it seems like some of his tenacity has rubbed off on E'Twaun Moore.

Let me remind you, though, that in these last three impressive victories the point guards were Jameer Nelson twice and Darren Collison, not exactly guys who make a living breaking you down off the dribble like the league's top point guards.

Let me also remind you (even though I actually liked Bradley's defense in that game) that in our win 4 games ago against the Wizards, John Wall was living in the paint against young Avery.  

Rondo is the best defender among elite point guards, but I love Avery as a defensive specialist, and I'm enjoying seeing him develop in that role.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 02:02:09 PM by Celtics18 »
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 01:50:32 PM »

Offline MVP

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Statistically the defense has been better when he has been playing then not per 82games.com so he hasn't been playing atrocious defense. He has also been playing big minutes and carrying the team offensively when he has played so he can't go all out on defense like Bradley and Moore, who mostly stand in the corner on offense, can. Hopefully with Pierce playing great and Bradley developing, we can reduce Rondo's minutes and offensive burden some so that he has more energy to exert on the defensive end and play at a 1st team all defense level.

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 01:57:18 PM »

Offline wahz

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1. Rondo is a potentially great defender. He is strong for his size, as quick as anyone, has wide shoulders, enormous hands and large wing span. You knew all that.
2. Rondo gambles too much. He allows his guy to go by him and tries to slap the ball away. Its only working on occassion now.
3. Rondo is lazy too much of the time. He is not all out Rondo even 1/4 of the time. He doesn't fight through screens and floats off his guy too much even when not trying to slap the ball away from behind. Bottom line is he plays at best average fundamental d
4. Rondo probably won't change. Its been pointed out everwhere that Rondo lets his guy by too often and he still doesn't make it a priority to stay in front of him
5. Along come Moore and Bradley. They play great fundamental d(Bradley didn't even have that much coaching before drafted he just does it right anyway), and filling in for our beloved Rajon they just screwed up the game plan of the opposing team in the last few games and made our bigs look like Bill Russell at age 25, since there was poor penetration when it happened at all

Id happily plug Moore and or Bradley in every time Rondo lacks effort or lets his guy go by with no reasonable excuse. Although PP has been otherwordly and that has partially carried they day no doubt, the incredible effort made by the guards, including Pietrus, has to set the light bulb off. Our big are VERY good defenders when penetration is poor. Our wings are good defenders consistently. We need our guards to stop penetration and we just found out how to do it, no ifs ands or buts. we blew away good teams when we were on back to backs and traveled! Big d like this was no fluke

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2012, 05:04:25 PM »

Offline greenpride32

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Rondo gives up way more than 2 easy baskets per game and he's averaging under 2 steals a game this year.  While it might fill up his stat sheet, the net effect is a negative to the team. 

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 05:15:02 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Rondo gives up way more than 2 easy baskets per game and he's averaging under 2 steals a game this year.  While it might fill up his stat sheet, the net effect is a negative to the team. 

If you think that Rondo's 2 steals per game are close to his only contributions defensively, I would say that you are hugely mistaken.

DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2012, 07:39:12 PM »

Offline BballTim

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His defense has been atrocious this year, even worse than last year.

Teams have been high pick & rolling the Celtics to death this year because he doesn't even try to stay in front of his man anymore. And every time he takes himself out of the play the other four guys are being forced to cover his ass. He lets opposing guards waltz by him so that he can gamble for steals, again hanging his teammates out to dry every time he does it.

Both Bradley and Moore have been giving maximum effort to stay between their man and the basket and to relentlessly fight through screens so that their teammates don't need to cover them. By no means am I saying Rondo needs to be benched, moreso just that Rajon needs to commit himself to the defensive side of the basketball again...he proved early on he certainly has the ability.

  According to Synergy sports, players that Rondo guard average .68 points per possession, which is 31st in the league out of all players, starters or reserves, who have guarded people on whatever their minimum number of scoring attempts is. According to hoopdata, the average point guard who plays 25 or more minutes average 9 assists and 3.8 turnovers and have an eFG% of .49%. From 82games, opposing point guards average 6.8 assists and 4.2 turnovers and have an eFG% of .42%.

   So players don't score very much against Rondo or get many assists, and they turn the ball over a lot. He's probably among the league leaders in those categories, just like he is most years. I'd say that almost every coach in the league wishes that his point guard played such "atrocious" defense.


Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 07:50:25 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo gives up way more than 2 easy baskets per game and he's averaging under 2 steals a game this year.  While it might fill up his stat sheet, the net effect is a negative to the team. 

  It's a wonder Rondo's still in the league, giving up at least 2 easy baskets in 36 minutes a game. That's at least one a half. Inexcusable.

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 07:54:22 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I think the lethargy that the other guys have been displaying on defense plays a large part in this. All the hustle plays: KG blocking Dwight from nowhere, Paul on the ground stealing the ball, hustling for rebounds... they were not there.

Basketball is a team sport. Help defense is a big part of basketball as well.

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2012, 08:02:56 PM »

Offline j804

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Statistically the defense has been better when he has been playing then not per 82games.com so he hasn't been playing atrocious defense. He has also been playing big minutes and carrying the team offensively when he has played so he can't go all out on defense like Bradley and Moore, who mostly stand in the corner on offense, can. Hopefully with Pierce playing great and Bradley developing, we can reduce Rondo's minutes and offensive burden some so that he has more energy to exert on the defensive end and play at a 1st team all defense level.
Bingo wow what are you guys watching. Hell if it weren't for Rondo we probably wouldn't even be near .500 right now and much worse. Smh
"7ft PG. Rondo leaves and GUESS WHAT? We got a BIGGER point guard!"-Tommy on Olynyk


Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2012, 08:33:56 PM »

Offline FallGuy

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Rondo's defense has been atrocious?

Be nice to see that backed up with some actual evidence.

Here's a couple: the Celtics are not getting pick and rolled to death. They're fifth in the league defending the roll man (PPP) and 13th defending the ball handler (PPP).

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2012, 08:41:18 PM »

Offline dtrader

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Rondo's defense has been atrocious?

Be nice to see that backed up with some actual evidence.

Here's a couple: the Celtics are not getting pick and rolled to death. They're fifth in the league defending the roll man (PPP) and 13th defending the ball handler (PPP).

Remember that Rondo didnt play the last 5 games, so whatever our current team stats are...they dont speak for rondo.  The last 5 games were huge for us defensively, and have increased our rankings substantially. That shouldnt be attributed to Rondo.

Still...I think Rondo is one of the 2 or 3 best defensive guards in the league.  I come down on him for a lot, but over all I'm happy with his defense. 

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2012, 08:42:53 PM »

Offline FallGuy

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His defense has been atrocious this year, even worse than last year.

Teams have been high pick & rolling the Celtics to death this year because he doesn't even try to stay in front of his man anymore. And every time he takes himself out of the play the other four guys are being forced to cover his ass. He lets opposing guards waltz by him so that he can gamble for steals, again hanging his teammates out to dry every time he does it.

Both Bradley and Moore have been giving maximum effort to stay between their man and the basket and to relentlessly fight through screens so that their teammates don't need to cover them. By no means am I saying Rondo needs to be benched, moreso just that Rajon needs to commit himself to the defensive side of the basketball again...he proved early on he certainly has the ability.

  According to Synergy sports, players that Rondo guard average .68 points per possession, which is 31st in the league out of all players, starters or reserves, who have guarded people on whatever their minimum number of scoring attempts is. According to hoopdata, the average point guard who plays 25 or more minutes average 9 assists and 3.8 turnovers and have an eFG% of .49%. From 82games, opposing point guards average 6.8 assists and 4.2 turnovers and have an eFG% of .42%.

   So players don't score very much against Rondo or get many assists, and they turn the ball over a lot. He's probably among the league leaders in those categories, just like he is most years. I'd say that almost every coach in the league wishes that his point guard played such "atrocious" defense.



*Nods*

Re: Rondo's Defense
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2012, 08:53:00 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Rondo's defense has been atrocious?

Be nice to see that backed up with some actual evidence.

Here's a couple: the Celtics are not getting pick and rolled to death. They're fifth in the league defending the roll man (PPP) and 13th defending the ball handler (PPP).

Remember that Rondo didnt play the last 5 games, so whatever our current team stats are...they dont speak for rondo.  The last 5 games were huge for us defensively, and have increased our rankings substantially. That shouldnt be attributed to Rondo.

  On the flip side, Rondo was playing (statistically) about the best pg defense in the league in spite of his team playing subpar defense. Obviously his play wasn't based on an above average defense behind him covering up for any mistakes he may have made.