Author Topic: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three  (Read 7178 times)

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Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 09:50:18 AM »

Offline lepoooo

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This bench players are good in defense, but can't create their own shot and can't pass the ball and create for the others.
We need a backup PG that is going to pass the ball first and allow Bradley to play the 2.
Also Stiemsma should play over Wilcox and I would trade him for another 7 footer.


True, the bench could be better.

But the starters suck more than the bench sucks.

(and you won't find a 7 footer for Wilcox, what do you think? Other teams' GMs are not stupid :D).

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 10:05:31 AM »

Offline winsomme

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It's reality, we have a terrible and horrific bench, Ray Allen, KG and PP can not play 35-40 minutes per night.
Do you think Bradley Moore, Dooling, Pavlovic, Daniels are players for the C's?

These players would not play anything on the other teams in the league, I'm sure. I think Ainge has failed in free agency, there were more interesting players, the team with the Big Three and some pieces may still be a great team.

I know that the contracts of KG, Pierce, we have little margin salarial.

For me, the Big Three is untouchable, next year I would resign to Ray Allen and KG for less money and add some better players to have a great roster.

I still think there are players in free agency better than Bradley, Dooling ...

  Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, Eddie House ... I do not understand, these players would bring more, we need score.

The future and most important is the return of Big Al Jefferson, Big Al is great.

 The problem of this team is the bench, Dooling, Moore, Daniels, Pavlovic can not play in the Celtics.

 Nate Robinson, Delonte...I do not understand Ainge.

Danny definitely dropped the ball in the filling out this roster. He swung and missed on CP3 and DWest although they were certainly worth the shot...

The problem, however, was when he then settled in to build the rest of the squad. He worked to get Dooling instead of signing Delonte and get Bass for Baby....both honestly lateral moves or maybe even drop-offs...

I like Bass a whole lot more than Baby as a teammate, but Baby is the better defender and can legit guard opposing centers. He also rotates much better on help defense and took a ton of charges...and Dooling is at best a wash with Delonte..

And THEN, he gets no starting center to move JO back to the backup position he is suited for and no backup PG. As a result, we are getting killed in the paint and are completely dysfunctional when Rondo is not on the floor.

and now, he is threatening to blow up the team. I'm not really sure what's going on with him. He must see that no starting center and no backup PG is killing this team. I have to believe he must.

Also, this team has not been right since that Perk trade...maybe it's not Perk specifically not being there, but it certainly has something to do with the thinness at center.

C'mon Danny. Get back on track. Please.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 10:19:10 AM »

Offline anthony83

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can't create their own shot and can't pass the ball and create for the others.



 The problem is the bench, Pavlovic, Bradley, Moore,Do you think these are solid players for the Celtics? Please...

 No resign Delonte West, great mistake Ainge, Nate Robinson? I donĀ“t understand.

 There are no players who can create his own shot, only Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, this is evident, Pietrus and Dooling only three-point shooting.

 Do you think for example that Allen Iverson would be better than Bradley and Moore?
 We need scorers, our bench is pathetic.

 Bass is a solid player.

 

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Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 10:37:49 AM »

Offline lepoooo

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It's reality, we have a terrible and horrific bench, Ray Allen, KG and PP can not play 35-40 minutes per night.
Do you think Bradley Moore, Dooling, Pavlovic, Daniels are players for the C's?

These players would not play anything on the other teams in the league, I'm sure. I think Ainge has failed in free agency, there were more interesting players, the team with the Big Three and some pieces may still be a great team.

I know that the contracts of KG, Pierce, we have little margin salarial.

For me, the Big Three is untouchable, next year I would resign to Ray Allen and KG for less money and add some better players to have a great roster.

I still think there are players in free agency better than Bradley, Dooling ...

  Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, Eddie House ... I do not understand, these players would bring more, we need score.

The future and most important is the return of Big Al Jefferson, Big Al is great.

 The problem of this team is the bench, Dooling, Moore, Daniels, Pavlovic can not play in the Celtics.

 Nate Robinson, Delonte...I do not understand Ainge.

Danny definitely dropped the ball in the filling out this roster. He swung and missed on CP3 and DWest although they were certainly worth the shot...

The problem, however, was when he then settled in to build the rest of the squad. He worked to get Dooling instead of signing Delonte and get Bass for Baby....both honestly lateral moves or maybe even drop-offs...

I like Bass a whole lot more than Baby as a teammate, but Baby is the better defender and can legit guard opposing centers. He also rotates much better on help defense and took a ton of charges...and Dooling is at best a wash with Delonte..

And THEN, he gets no starting center to move JO back to the backup position he is suited for and no backup PG. As a result, we are getting killed in the paint and are completely dysfunctional when Rondo is not on the floor.

and now, he is threatening to blow up the team. I'm not really sure what's going on with him. He must see that no starting center and no backup PG is killing this team. I have to believe he must.

Also, this team has not been right since that Perk trade...maybe it's not Perk specifically not being there, but it certainly has something to do with the thinness at center.

C'mon Danny. Get back on track. Please.

I'm getting kind of tired of the whole "Danny sucks / It's all on the bench" thing.

KG is averaging 13 points / 7 rebounds. Is it because Dooling and Wilcox suck?

PP is averaging 14 points. Is it because Wilcox is injured and Bradley can't shoot?

RA is averaging 15 points. Is it because Bass is not a 7 footer?

The bench is not great but it's not what is killing the Celtics. The big 3 + Jermaine are too old.

It's easy tu put everything on DA. The FA market this year was poor and the Celtics had no room to operate. You say CP3 was worth a shot, well... Danny took a shot at him. But the Hornets went for the best trade they could get (Gordon, Aminu, Kamann, 1st pick from Minny > Rondo + Green + 1st Celtics pick).

Letting Delonte walk was a mistake but Danny was trying to make bigger moves and he couldn't commit on him. Still a mistake but it would no have changed much anyway.

What Danny probably sees now (and you can't see that obviously) is that even with some tweaks (you talked about a starting C and a back-up PG) this team is bound to loose in the 1st or 2nd round of the PO to Orlando, Miami, Chicago or even Indiana or Phily.

You are talking about those tweaks and improvements he should have made but Danny is careful and he knew this team, with the lockout and condensed season, could be done. He waited to see what it could be like and now he is happy to not have committed any money on some role players who would not have made enough difference to make the team a contender while crippling the cap.

Yes there are talks to blow it up, and it is the right thing to do if a good deal is on the table. Not because DA failed to improve the team enough during the FA (again, he didn't have any room to operate anyway) but because the big 3 core is done and won't be able to produce any championship, no matter who you could put around them as role players.

One more thing, about the Perk trade. DA went all-in with this trade, thinking Green would be a nice replacement for Daniels who went down with a bad injury and that Shaq and JO would come back healthy before the PO. This gamble didn't pay off but it was a good move short-term (Green, Krstic) and long-term (Green, who was restricted + Clippers 1st pick 2012).

It messed up the chemistry (maybe, but these players are supposed to be pro, right?) but he needed a back-up on the wing and Green was fitting the bill while the deal was not hurting the C's chances in the PO too much. (btw, Perk was coming back from a bad knee injury, remember? He wasn't 100% anyway and Danny didn't want to give Perk 10 millions a year for 5 points and 5 rebounds).

Perk is so overrated. I'm glad he is gone, even if it messed up the chemistry last year. The guy is gonna get 35 millions the next 4 years for 5 points and 5 rebounds. Maybe he is a fit in OKC, but the DA knew the rebuilding process was coming and I'm glad he didn't commit money on defensive ony center with no potential to improve.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2012, 10:44:49 AM »

Offline The DarkPassenger

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One of the main reasons why our bench is the problem is because we always seem to replace it every year. No time to build chemistry or establish roles for players because most of them won't be back anyway. And the players that we do bring back we probably shouldn't have. 

One of the issues IS the Big 3 though, that shouldn't be overlooked just because they are the "Big 3". Pierce can't seem to get his shot going, KG is no where near the player he was when he came here, and while Ray is in great shape for his age it seems that his defenders are keeping up with him while he runs around the court. The Big 3 is the number one reason why this team is in the position it's in and if one of them or all of them end up traded it's there own fault not the bench.

Maybe we should have kept Gody and Erden and established some roles for them to play on the team, build some chemistry and have young guys around Rondo. Not ideal but just an example. I'd take them over Wilcox and Pavlovic honestly.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 10:53:06 AM by The DarkPassenger »
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." - Michael Jordan

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Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2012, 10:53:18 AM »

Offline toine83

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Trade ideas

Bass + Dooling for Hinrich (Expiring)
Wilcox + draft for Jason Thompson
sign Pryzbilla (if still wants to play)


Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2012, 10:57:15 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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This is terribly wrong. We have the best 10 strong lineup Ive seen in Boston for many many years.  The bench of Dooling, Daniels, Pietrus, Bass, and Wilcox is very strong and when they are all healthy and finally get a chance to play together they are going to keep making noise. I would rather have that line up starting for me over the Nets starting lineup.

The problem is age. There are really no if, ands or butts about it.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2012, 11:06:53 AM »

Offline lepoooo

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We have the best 10 strong lineup Ive seen in Boston for many many years.


 :-\

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2012, 11:17:29 AM »

Offline The DarkPassenger

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Just throwing it into the open but we should keep in mind that Wilson Chandler, J.R. Smith, Aaron Brooks and Kenyon Martin will be available in March for teams to sign. One or two are restricted I believe but who knows what happens.
"Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships." - Michael Jordan

"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."- Red Auerbach

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 11:20:54 AM »

Offline winsomme

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It's reality, we have a terrible and horrific bench, Ray Allen, KG and PP can not play 35-40 minutes per night.
Do you think Bradley Moore, Dooling, Pavlovic, Daniels are players for the C's?

These players would not play anything on the other teams in the league, I'm sure. I think Ainge has failed in free agency, there were more interesting players, the team with the Big Three and some pieces may still be a great team.

I know that the contracts of KG, Pierce, we have little margin salarial.

For me, the Big Three is untouchable, next year I would resign to Ray Allen and KG for less money and add some better players to have a great roster.

I still think there are players in free agency better than Bradley, Dooling ...

  Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, Eddie House ... I do not understand, these players would bring more, we need score.

The future and most important is the return of Big Al Jefferson, Big Al is great.

 The problem of this team is the bench, Dooling, Moore, Daniels, Pavlovic can not play in the Celtics.

 Nate Robinson, Delonte...I do not understand Ainge.

Danny definitely dropped the ball in the filling out this roster. He swung and missed on CP3 and DWest although they were certainly worth the shot...

The problem, however, was when he then settled in to build the rest of the squad. He worked to get Dooling instead of signing Delonte and get Bass for Baby....both honestly lateral moves or maybe even drop-offs...

I like Bass a whole lot more than Baby as a teammate, but Baby is the better defender and can legit guard opposing centers. He also rotates much better on help defense and took a ton of charges...and Dooling is at best a wash with Delonte..

And THEN, he gets no starting center to move JO back to the backup position he is suited for and no backup PG. As a result, we are getting killed in the paint and are completely dysfunctional when Rondo is not on the floor.

and now, he is threatening to blow up the team. I'm not really sure what's going on with him. He must see that no starting center and no backup PG is killing this team. I have to believe he must.

Also, this team has not been right since that Perk trade...maybe it's not Perk specifically not being there, but it certainly has something to do with the thinness at center.

C'mon Danny. Get back on track. Please.

I'm getting kind of tired of the whole "Danny sucks / It's all on the bench" thing.

KG is averaging 13 points / 7 rebounds. Is it because Dooling and Wilcox suck?

PP is averaging 14 points. Is it because Wilcox is injured and Bradley can't shoot?

RA is averaging 15 points. Is it because Bass is not a 7 footer?

The bench is not great but it's not what is killing the Celtics. The big 3 + Jermaine are too old.

It's easy tu put everything on DA. The FA market this year was poor and the Celtics had no room to operate. You say CP3 was worth a shot, well... Danny took a shot at him. But the Hornets went for the best trade they could get (Gordon, Aminu, Kamann, 1st pick from Minny > Rondo + Green + 1st Celtics pick).

Letting Delonte walk was a mistake but Danny was trying to make bigger moves and he couldn't commit on him. Still a mistake but it would no have changed much anyway.

What Danny probably sees now (and you can't see that obviously) is that even with some tweaks (you talked about a starting C and a back-up PG) this team is bound to loose in the 1st or 2nd round of the PO to Orlando, Miami, Chicago or even Indiana or Phily.

You are talking about those tweaks and improvements he should have made but Danny is careful and he knew this team, with the lockout and condensed season, could be done. He waited to see what it could be like and now he is happy to not have committed any money on some role players who would not have made enough difference to make the team a contender while crippling the cap.

Yes there are talks to blow it up, and it is the right thing to do if a good deal is on the table. Not because DA failed to improve the team enough during the FA (again, he didn't have any room to operate anyway) but because the big 3 core is done and won't be able to produce any championship, no matter who you could put around them as role players.

One more thing, about the Perk trade. DA went all-in with this trade, thinking Green would be a nice replacement for Daniels who went down with a bad injury and that Shaq and JO would come back healthy before the PO. This gamble didn't pay off but it was a good move short-term (Green, Krstic) and long-term (Green, who was restricted + Clippers 1st pick 2012).

It messed up the chemistry (maybe, but these players are supposed to be pro, right?) but he needed a back-up on the wing and Green was fitting the bill while the deal was not hurting the C's chances in the PO too much. (btw, Perk was coming back from a bad knee injury, remember? He wasn't 100% anyway and Danny didn't want to give Perk 10 millions a year for 5 points and 5 rebounds).

Perk is so overrated. I'm glad he is gone, even if it messed up the chemistry last year. The guy is gonna get 35 millions the next 4 years for 5 points and 5 rebounds. Maybe he is a fit in OKC, but the DA knew the rebuilding process was coming and I'm glad he didn't commit money on defensive ony center with no potential to improve.

I'm not criticizing Danny for going after CP3 and DWest. Those efforts made sense.

But I disagree that a starting center and a backup PG are
"tweaks." Those are key spots on contending teams, especially ones that functions more as a team.

as for the Perk trade, I realize that Danny gambled on that, but at the end of the day, he still needed to replace Perk to get this team back functioning properly and that hasn't happened.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 12:27:52 PM »

Offline Tone

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Its the big 3 there old and playing like it and the bench isn't so great but people have to stop making excuses for the big 3 terrible play.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 03:23:48 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Bass and Pietrus today outscored anyone not named PP so far with 2:43 left in the fourth.  Yeah, they are the problem....

http://boston.stats.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2012012227&home=27&vis=2&meta=true

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 03:29:18 PM »

Offline Marcus13

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Bass and Pietrus today outscored anyone not named PP so far with 2:43 left in the fourth.  Yeah, they are the problem....

http://boston.stats.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2012012227&home=27&vis=2&meta=true

Who was there competition?  Rondo and Ray were out lol and KG is just useless

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 03:36:06 PM »

Offline lepoooo

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Starting center and backup PG would not have changed much.

Btw, who was on the market for the C's to fill those spots?

Easy to bash DA, harder to propose something actually constructive.

Re: The problem is the C's bench, not Big Three
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 03:40:06 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
KG is just useless


KG did end up as seconding leading scorer today folks.  When I posted both Pietrus and Bass had more but KG finished strong.