D-Will to follow DH12 (forget about him coming to BOS)

[snively]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/218455/Source_Williams_Future_With_Nets_Completely_Tied_To_Howardhttp://

Deron Williams' would prefer to remain with the Nets, but that appears to be predicated on the team's ability to acquire Dwight Howard, say sources.

Williams will sign a new deal with the Nets if Howard ends up joining him in Brooklyn.

The Mavericks, the Knicks and the Lakers would be his preferred options if he leaves the Nets, according to sources close to the situation.

If Howard is traded to another team that he plans on re-signing with, the Nets will begin to explore a trade of Williams, according to a source.

Doesn't appear we'll have any shot at D-Will; unless of couse we can pull off landing DH12 AND D-Will.

I read that as D-Will making his resigning contingent on adding Howard, not that he would follow Howard anywhere. 

Makes sense.  Howard is the only great free agent on the market.

[SHAQATTACK]

sure he is , thats the ONLY reason he would sign with the lowly Nets

[KCattheStripe]

Sure there is.  You can't treat the NBA, or any other professional sports league, as if it is a job market like any other.  It operates totally differently.

The better analogy is that the NBA is one large business and the teams are sub-sets of that business.  The business makes money by entertaining fans, and each sub-set is an integral part of the product that the NBA offers.

I disagree with your premise, but even so, if the NBA is one big business does a business thrive by having their best employees locked into mediocre departments with mediocre talent or should it let it's best and brightest team together to create the best product possible?

[PosImpos]

Sure there is.  You can't treat the NBA, or any other professional sports league, as if it is a job market like any other.  It operates totally differently.

The better analogy is that the NBA is one large business and the teams are sub-sets of that business.  The business makes money by entertaining fans, and each sub-set is an integral part of the product that the NBA offers.

I disagree with your premise, but even so, if the NBA is one big business does a business thrive by having their best employees locked into mediocre departments with mediocre talent

yes, when it's a professional sports league and you want there to be more than a handful of teams that are actually worth watching.


again, i'd point you to the English Premiere League, or any of a number of other foreign professional soccer leagues, which operate on free market principles and treat each team as an independent business with no salary cap or free agency rules.  what you get is a league dominated year after year by the same handful of teams, and only once in a while do you get one or two teams that rise from the muck up to the top for a bit before their talent is vultured by the wealthier clubs.

[KCattheStripe]

Sure there is.  You can't treat the NBA, or any other professional sports league, as if it is a job market like any other.  It operates totally differently.

The better analogy is that the NBA is one large business and the teams are sub-sets of that business.  The business makes money by entertaining fans, and each sub-set is an integral part of the product that the NBA offers.

I disagree with your premise, but even so, if the NBA is one big business does a business thrive by having their best employees locked into mediocre departments with mediocre talent

yes, when it's a professional sports league and you want there to be more than a handful of teams that are actually worth watching.


again, i'd point you to the English Premiere League, or any of a number of other foreign professional soccer leagues, which operate on free market principles and treat each team as an independent business with no salary cap or free agency rules.  what you get is a league dominated year after year by the same handful of teams, and only once in a while do you get one or two teams that rise from the muck up to the top for a bit before their talent is vultured by the wealthier clubs.

Which is absolutely hurting the league's popularity, just like the Kevin garnett agreeing to be traded to the Cs and the Big 3 getting together in Miami have hurt the NBA's popularity, rendering them bad for business.

[PosImpos]

Sure there is.  You can't treat the NBA, or any other professional sports league, as if it is a job market like any other.  It operates totally differently.

The better analogy is that the NBA is one large business and the teams are sub-sets of that business.  The business makes money by entertaining fans, and each sub-set is an integral part of the product that the NBA offers.

I disagree with your premise, but even so, if the NBA is one big business does a business thrive by having their best employees locked into mediocre departments with mediocre talent

yes, when it's a professional sports league and you want there to be more than a handful of teams that are actually worth watching.


again, i'd point you to the English Premiere League, or any of a number of other foreign professional soccer leagues, which operate on free market principles and treat each team as an independent business with no salary cap or free agency rules.  what you get is a league dominated year after year by the same handful of teams, and only once in a while do you get one or two teams that rise from the muck up to the top for a bit before their talent is vultured by the wealthier clubs.

Which is absolutely hurting the league's popularity, just like the Kevin garnett agreeing to be traded to the Cs and the Big 3 getting together in Miami have hurt the NBA's popularity, rendering them bad for business.

You're correct that casual fans get excited by superteams, and don't mind a total lack of competitive balance.

But as far as putting out a good product for anybody but casual fans, it's a pretty awful model.  I'm (perhaps selfishly) only concerned with what will put the best product on the floor for people who actually care about basketball, not people who will tune in to watch LeBron and Kobe regardless of what teams they play for.

[KCattheStripe]

You're correct that casual fans get excited by superteams, and don't mind a total lack of competitive balance.

But as far as putting out a good product for anybody but casual fans, it's a pretty awful model.  I'm (perhaps selfishly) only concerned with what will put the best product on the floor for people who actually care about basketball, not people who will tune in to watch LeBron and Kobe regardless of what teams they play for.

If you care about "basketball" why would you not want an opportunity to see it at it's highest level? I think you mean you care about the Celtics.

But this is all an aside, because the current situation is nothing like the premier league where, as you rightly pointed out, the teams with the most money just snipe players. These recent player movements have absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with wanting to enjoy your job and to succeed at it. The Big Tres in Miami all took paycuts. Chris Paul went to the Clippers who have a notoriously bad owner. DWill would be leaving a situation with a crazy billionaire who is willing to throw cash around.

These movements have nothing to do with money and everything to do with an empowered workforce wanting to do a job they love with people they enjoy with the goal of succeeding at the highest level, and I really can't fathom how that's a bad thing.

[PosImpos]

You're correct that casual fans get excited by superteams, and don't mind a total lack of competitive balance.

But as far as putting out a good product for anybody but casual fans, it's a pretty awful model.  I'm (perhaps selfishly) only concerned with what will put the best product on the floor for people who actually care about basketball, not people who will tune in to watch LeBron and Kobe regardless of what teams they play for.

If you care about "basketball" why would you not want an opportunity to see it at it's highest level? I think you mean you care about the Celtics.

But this is all an aside, because the current situation is nothing like the premier league where, as you rightly pointed out, the teams with the most money just snipe players. These recent player movements have absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with wanting to enjoy your job and to succeed at it. The Big Tres in Miami all took paycuts. Chris Paul went to the Clippers who have a notoriously bad owner. DWill would be leaving a situation with a crazy billionaire who is willing to throw cash around.

These movements have nothing to do with money and everything to do with an empowered workforce wanting to do a job they love with people they enjoy with the goal of succeeding at the highest level, and I really can't fathom how that's a bad thing.

It's a bad thing for fans of teams not in big cities or warm weather locations.

It's a bad thing for team executives who try to make smart moves to build good teams only to see their plans fall apart because their players want to team up with their friends.

It's a bad thing for fans interested in watching a league with 10-15 good teams as opposed to a league with 4-5 talent-laden teams and 25-26 mediocre to terrible ones.


I really don't buy this "empowered workforce" stuff.  Every NBA player is an employee of the NBA, and they all make tons of money.  They should play where they are told, if you ask me.  Let the GMs make moves and build teams.  I want to watch a league where the best managed, best built, best coached, and hardest working team wins.

Superstar teams don't play the best basketball, either.  Usually you just see a bunch of hero ball and highlight-reel fast break plays.  The Miami Heat is not a fun team to watch, at least to me.  I much prefer teams with one superstar, a couple of complementary stars, and a good supporting cast (e.g. the 2011 Mavs).

[SHAQATTACK]

Players just make to much money now period, they have more money than they know what to do with , so now they want rings, warm weather and Kardashian girlfriends...

[KCattheStripe]

You're correct that casual fans get excited by superteams, and don't mind a total lack of competitive balance.

But as far as putting out a good product for anybody but casual fans, it's a pretty awful model.  I'm (perhaps selfishly) only concerned with what will put the best product on the floor for people who actually care about basketball, not people who will tune in to watch LeBron and Kobe regardless of what teams they play for.

If you care about "basketball" why would you not want an opportunity to see it at it's highest level? I think you mean you care about the Celtics.

But this is all an aside, because the current situation is nothing like the premier league where, as you rightly pointed out, the teams with the most money just snipe players. These recent player movements have absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with wanting to enjoy your job and to succeed at it. The Big Tres in Miami all took paycuts. Chris Paul went to the Clippers who have a notoriously bad owner. DWill would be leaving a situation with a crazy billionaire who is willing to throw cash around.

These movements have nothing to do with money and everything to do with an empowered workforce wanting to do a job they love with people they enjoy with the goal of succeeding at the highest level, and I really can't fathom how that's a bad thing.

It's a bad thing for fans of teams not in big cities or warm weather locations.


It's a bad thing for team executives who try to make smart moves to build good teams only to see their plans fall apart because their players want to team up with their friends.

It's a bad thing for fans interested in watching a league with 10-15 good teams as opposed to a league with 4-5 talent-laden teams and 25-26 mediocre to terrible ones.

Memphis and OKC are both building young teams with great front offices-- Yes I did say that about Chris Wallace. In the past 2 years:

Memphis has resigned Rudy Gay, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph

OKC resigned Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kendrick Perkins and likely will be able to resign James Harden and Serge Ibaka.

NBA players aren't leaving small city, non destination cities if the teams are good and the organization has direction. San Antonio is another prime example of this.

LeBron James left Cleveland a team where the second best player his team ever put around him was Anderson varejo.

Chris Bosh left a Toronto organization that tried to pair him in the frontcourt with Charlie V and Andrea Bargnani.

Dwight Howard looks to be leaving an Orlando organization that lacks the ability to assess talent.

Dwill left Utah in what was apparently a toxic and disfunctional setting.

Chris Paul got traded from NO when the second best player he ever played with was Tyson Chandler.

You can keep All Star and All NBA talent around if you have great management, don't blame the players if they go seeking that, like Bosh and James went seeking a great organization run by Pat freaking Riley.

[PosImpos]

You're correct that casual fans get excited by superteams, and don't mind a total lack of competitive balance.

But as far as putting out a good product for anybody but casual fans, it's a pretty awful model.  I'm (perhaps selfishly) only concerned with what will put the best product on the floor for people who actually care about basketball, not people who will tune in to watch LeBron and Kobe regardless of what teams they play for.

If you care about "basketball" why would you not want an opportunity to see it at it's highest level? I think you mean you care about the Celtics.

But this is all an aside, because the current situation is nothing like the premier league where, as you rightly pointed out, the teams with the most money just snipe players. These recent player movements have absolutely nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with wanting to enjoy your job and to succeed at it. The Big Tres in Miami all took paycuts. Chris Paul went to the Clippers who have a notoriously bad owner. DWill would be leaving a situation with a crazy billionaire who is willing to throw cash around.

These movements have nothing to do with money and everything to do with an empowered workforce wanting to do a job they love with people they enjoy with the goal of succeeding at the highest level, and I really can't fathom how that's a bad thing.

It's a bad thing for fans of teams not in big cities or warm weather locations.


It's a bad thing for team executives who try to make smart moves to build good teams only to see their plans fall apart because their players want to team up with their friends.

It's a bad thing for fans interested in watching a league with 10-15 good teams as opposed to a league with 4-5 talent-laden teams and 25-26 mediocre to terrible ones.

Memphis and OKC are both building young teams with great front offices-- Yes I did say that about Chris Wallace. In the past 2 years:

Memphis has resigned Rudy Gay, Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph

OKC resigned Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kendrick Perkins and likely will be able to resign James Harden and Serge Ibaka.

NBA players aren't leaving small city, non destination cities if the teams are good and the organization has direction. San Antonio is another prime example of this.

LeBron James left Cleveland a team where the second best player his team ever put around him was Anderson varejo.

Chris Bosh left a Toronto organization that tried to pair him in the frontcourt with Charlie V and Andrea Bargnani.

Dwight Howard looks to be leaving an Orlando organization that lacks the ability to assess talent.

Dwill left Utah in what was apparently a toxic and disfunctional setting.

Chris Paul got traded from NO when the second best player he ever played with was Tyson Chandler.

You can keep All Star and All NBA talent around if you have great management, don't blame the players if they go seeking that, like Bosh and James went seeking a great organization run by Pat freaking Riley.

Players being unsatisfied with poorly run teams is fine.

What bothers me is players getting together behind the scenes and saying yeah, we should all go play there, which is what happened with the Heat, and what Melo / CP3 / Amare tried to do with the Knicks. 

The important example you left out was Carmelo, who forced his way out of a well-run team in Denver to go to the big city. 

I think the Jazz are a well-run organization, too.  If that was a toxic and dysfunctional setting, it seems like it was because of Deron, not anybody else.

[KCattheStripe]

The important example you left out was Carmelo, who forced his way out of a well-run team in Denver to go to the big city. 

Yet, because he tried to force his way out, Denver got a ton of assets in return and are a better team for it-- Mostly because Melo is terrible--. Another fine example of a well run organization not being harmed by star players wanting to go play with their friends.

[PosImpos]

The important example you left out was Carmelo, who forced his way out of a well-run team in Denver to go to the big city.  

Yet, because he tried to force his way out, Denver got a ton of assets in return and are a better team for it-- Mostly because Melo is terrible--. Another fine example of a well run organization not being harmed by star players wanting to go play with their friends.

Eh.  They look better as a regular season team, but I don't think that team is going anywhere beyond the 1st or 2nd round anytime soon, whereas with Melo they were always a move or two away from being a top team.  They were a couple games away from the Finals just a few years ago.

If you want to talk business, too, there's no doubt the value of the Nuggets has dropped considerably.  They're a much less marketable team now.  No team has suffered more in that respect than the Cavs.

[KCattheStripe]

The important example you left out was Carmelo, who forced his way out of a well-run team in Denver to go to the big city.  

Yet, because he tried to force his way out, Denver got a ton of assets in return and are a better team for it-- Mostly because Melo is terrible--. Another fine example of a well run organization not being harmed by star players wanting to go play with their friends.

Eh.  They look better as a regular season team, but I don't think that team is going anywhere beyond the 1st or 2nd round anytime soon, whereas with Melo they were always a move or two away from being a top team.  They were a couple games away from the Finals just a few years ago.

If you want to talk business, too, there's no doubt the value of the Nuggets has dropped considerably.  They're a much less marketable team now.  No team has suffered more in that respect than the Cavs.

That Nuggets run was pretty flukey, remember they almost lost to a Rockets team that lost Yao. And they have played significantly better since jettisoning Melo, that's just a fact.


EDIT: My bad, they beat the Mavs in a series devoid of defense.

[pearljammer10]

I wouldnt wanna stay on the Nets either.

I still stand my by prediction. Howard and Dwill will both be wearing Mavs jerseys next season alongside Dirk.